Question to Bahais. The Maitreya.

[Link]

Yes the Claim has to be supported by the Message. The Message given by Allah is reflected from the Messenger. Their person and Their Life are the first example of the Message.

The Messenger is Born of the Holy Spirit, they are not men like us. So from birth, and even before birth, these potential Attributes can be seen and as Children they already show signs of what they will give to humanity.

Regards Tony

'

Salam

Quran reveals Mohammad's (s) authority. His Ahlulbayt (a) have his authority per Quran. Mohammad (s) is a Messenger to all humanity, and so they are authorities over all humanity as well. The final Authority from God is the Mahdi (a). Isa (a) will return with him and pray behind him.

I don't find Kitabal Aqdas any thing like Quran. Quran is much higher in eloquence, flow, sound (musical tone), and it has an Ahlulbayt who can perform miracles with it. God says he doesn't replace a sign except he brings the like of it or something better. And it has doors that open other doors. It's both manifest and inward, explicit and implicit, clear and subtle, but nothing of it is unclear.

I use to believe Taha and letters like that, we couldn't know the meaning easily. But even that becomes clear through itself and by miracle nature, you know which of the 14 mysterious letter sequences refer to which Ahlulbayt (a).

I honestly studied Bayani texts as well as Bahai texts since high school.

Not only do they not compare to Quran, they are no where near level to me as the words of Ahlulbayt (a) like Misbahal Shariah.

The way Imams (a) speak when you understand Quran, it's next level wisdom and eloquence as well. Of course, Quran is much higher then their words, but their words are also beyond fabrication.

That is not to say there are no false hadiths, but, they have words you can know are from them.

I honestly understand the concept you need humility to understand words of Ahlulbayt (a). You guys feel that is what is needed for Bahai scripture. I understand that.

But when I came to both, I find Quran and words of Ahlulbayt (a) much much higher.

I tell you what, if you can show me prayers that compare to Du'a Kumail or Sahifa Sajjadiya from your texts... then we can talk... but Quran is even much higher and subtle and amazing then words of Ahlulbayt (a).

I understand words of Quran and Ahlulbayt (A) words need humbleness. I try to be humble, give Bahai texts a chance. But from day of judgment explanations, to mess explanation of seal of Prophets in kitabal itqaan, I don't find it possible to be from God.

There is no comparison with Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) words. Nahjul balagha itself is higher in eloquence then your holy scriptures so let alone Quran.

Allah (swt) says if he replaces a sign, which Quran is a sign, and Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) are a sign together too since there is no way towards one without the other, that he replaces it with something like it (equal it brightness and sign and proof level) or better.

If a Prophet comes and does that, I will submit to him. I will accept we are wrong about seal of Prophets. But day of judgment and the sophistry games with it to be about Baha'allah, it makes Quran a messy book.

Even if there are to be more Prophets, Ba'ahallah can't be one to me.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In Baha'i teachings there are allowed to be minor prophets like perhaps this current Maitreya. But he is not a Manifestation of God of which there have been only nine.

Baha'is accept only the nine Manifestations Iisted above. Once accepting Baha'u'llah, they are clear on the question and don't need to develop standards for considering someone like this Maitreya. This Maitreya cannot be considered a Manifestation of God as it will be at least a thousand years after Baha'u'llah before a new Manifestation will appear.

No true

Firedragon is correct but George-ananda also has remembered passages that also reflect some truth, I have not looked them up.

Bahaullah has said that God guides by the Messenger and that outpouring of Spirot from the Messenger does produce souls that guide peoples in ither parts of the world (my understanding of passages that George-Amanda my be remembering)

Also the Baha'i Writings allow for an unlimited number of True Prophets the 9 mentioned are the ones that still have followers. The ones mentioned in the Bible and Quran are also accepted by Baha'i, as to others that will require a future civilization, who are united in purpose, to research.

Regards Tony

 

[Link]

Then there is the other caution.

The first caution results in our investigation that weeds out all the false Prophets, then the other caution, is the most important, and that is not rejecting the True Prophet, Allah's Will for humanity.

Regards Tony

I agree.
So we need some standards.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

'

Salam

Quran reveals Mohammad's (s) authority. His Ahlulbayt (a) have his authority per Quran. Mohammad (s) is a Messenger to all humanity, and so they are authorities over all humanity as well. The final Authority from God is the Mahdi (a). Isa (a) will return with him and pray behind him.

I don't find Kitabal Aqdas any thing like Quran. Quran is much higher in eloquence, flow, sound (musical tone), and it has an Ahlulbayt who can perform miracles with it. God says he doesn't replace a sign except he brings the like of it or something better. And it has doors that open other doors. It's both manifest and inward, explicit and implicit, clear and subtle, but nothing of it is unclear.

I use to believe Taha and letters like that, we couldn't know the meaning easily. But even that becomes clear through itself and by miracle nature, you know which of the 14 mysterious letter sequences refer to which Ahlulbayt (a).

I honestly studied Bayani texts as well as Bahai texts since high school.

Not only do they not compare to Quran, they are no where near level to me as the words of Ahlulbayt (a) like Misbahal Shariah.

The way Imams (a) speak when you understand Quran, it's next level wisdom and eloquence as well. Of course, Quran is much higher then their words, but their words are also beyond fabrication.

That is not to say there are no false hadiths, but, they have words you can know are from them.

I honestly understand the concept you need humility to understand words of Ahlulbayt (a). You guys feel that is what is needed for Bahai scripture. I understand that.

But when I came to both, I find Quran and words of Ahlulbayt (a) much much higher.

I tell you what, if you can show me prayers that compare to Du'a Kumail or Sahifa Sajjadiya from your texts... then we can talk... but Quran is even much higher and subtle and amazing then words of Ahlulbayt (a).

I understand words of Quran and Ahlulbayt (A) words need humbleness. I try to be humble, give Bahai texts a chance. But from day of judgment explanations, to mess explanation of seal of Prophets in kitabal itqaan, I don't find it possible to be from God.

There is no comparison with Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) words. Nahjul balagha itself is higher in eloquence then your holy scriptures so let alone Quran.

Allah (swt) says if he replaces a sign, which Quran is a sign, and Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) are a sign together too since there is no way towards one without the other, that he replaces it with something like it (equal it brightness and sign and proof level) or better.

If a Prophet comes and does that, I will submit to him. I will accept we are wrong about seal of Prophets. But day of judgment and the sophistry games with it to be about Baha'allah, it makes Quran a messy book.

Even if there are to be more Prophets, Ba'ahallah can't be one to me.

Allah'u'abha and Ya Baha'ul Abha.

Link, that is your choice.

I see the Bab and Baha'u'llah reflected naught but Allah.

It is the Bab and Baha'u'llah that gave my heart to all the Messengers, Muhammad (Peace be with him) was a Messenger from God and the Quran is God's Word.

The Bab and Baha'u'llah have shown us how Allah is One.

Yet why is it Islam still Makes Allah only theirs?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I agree.
So we need some standards.

The Bible has given good guidance on this Matter.

Muhammad is foretold in Revelation as the Message given before the Day of the Lord and the Day of the Lord is the 2nd and 3rd Woes and another Trumpet Blast.

The Bible also gives the criteria for a True Prophet.

Now the quandary for Islam is do they accept what the Bible has offered?

Regards Tony

 

[soulsurvivor]

There is no shortage of these fake Mahdis. That's the point.

It's not good enough to say we have to accept all those who claim to be Prophets because we accept Prophet Mohammad (s). Sorry, there was even a fake Prophet during his time.

You don't have to accept anyone as a Prophet if you don't want to. But there can be more than one Prophet - and there have been many.

But there is supposed to be only one Mahdi, someday soon we will find out which is the real one.

 

[Link]

The Bible has given good guidance on this Matter.

Muhammad is foretold in Revelation as the Message given before the Day of the Lord and the Day of the Lord is the 2nd and 3rd Woes and another Trumpet Blast.

The Buble.gives the criteria for a True Prophet.

Now the quandary for Islam is do they accept what the Bible has offered?

Regards Tony

Bible is not a good book for this. It talks about Talut (a) and Sulaiman (a) in a way that first honors them then later degrades them. Same with Mariam (a) sister of Musa (a) and Haroun (a) brother of Musa (a).

It's degrading towards God's chosen. It's been seriously corrupted.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Ha ha, he was born 1944 in Tehran.

Regards Tony

Do you know if he has died or still around?

I read the link that @Link gave.
It appears to me, he has very good detail knowledge of the Bahai faith. Interesting indeed.
english-other-evidences-bahai-greatest-name - Mission of Maitreya

 

[firedragon]

Firedragon is correct but George-ananda also has remembered passages that also reflect some truth, I have not looked them up.

Bahaullah has said that God guides by the Messenger and that outpouring of Spirot from the Messenger does produce souls that guide peoples in ither parts of the world (my understanding of passages that George-Amanda my be remembering)

Also the Baha'i Writings allow for an unlimited number of True Prophets the 9 mentioned are the ones that still have followers. The ones mentioned in the Bible and Quran are also accepted by Baha'i, as to others that will require a future civilization, who are united in purpose, to research.

Regards Tony

I do not agree with your my friend. I understand you are the Bahai and I am a nobody, but Bahai teachings do not say that there will be another Maithreya. Bahaullah was the Maythri. So there are no more Maithri's to come.

But this is your space so maybe I have no right to interfere. So I shall withdraw.

 

[firedragon]

From his viewpoint, there are many Mahdis, many Christs. So he is saying, he is just another one after Baha'allah. We can see this same with Bab claiming to be the Mahdi and Baha'allah claiming same.

That I understand. I was speaking from the Bahai's point of view.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I do not agree with your my friend. I understand you are the Bahai and I am a nobody, but Bahai teachings do not say that there will be another Maithreya. Bahaullah was the Maythri. So there are no more Maithri's to come.

But this is your space so maybe I have no right to interfere. So I shall withdraw.

I would say the most important principle to know true Revelations from false ones, is by their fruits. We have to see what does it really offer. Otherwise, one can say, God can send more Mahdis, more Maitreya more Messiahs....

 

[firedragon]

I would say the most important principle to know true Revelations from false ones, is by their fruits. We have to see what does it really offer. Otherwise, one can say, God can send more Mahdis, more Maitreya more Messiahs....

Sorry mate. I dont go by speculative, arbitrary statements that feels nice. I was only stating your own theology and if you dont believe your own theology and are making new stuff up, its up to you. Maybe its a habit.

have at it. Cheers.

 

[Link]

That I understand. I was speaking from the Bahai's point of view.

The point is by their logic, they shouldn't interpret any of their scripture since they aren't firmly rooted in knowledge but a Prophet is. So anything this Prophet says about their scripture should be accepted. If he says it means x and y, and they say it means m and n, they have to submit to him. Same way they expect Muslims to leave the day of judgment meaning.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do you know if he has died or still around?

I read the link that @Link gave.
It appears to me, he has very good detail knowledge of the Bahai faith. Interesting indeed.
english-other-evidences-bahai-greatest-name - Mission of Maitreya

They mention the Bab and Baha'u'llah were Messengers.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I do not agree with your my friend. I understand you are the Bahai and I am a nobody, but Bahai teachings do not say that there will be another Maithreya. Bahaullah was the Maythri. So there are no more Maithri's to come.

But this is your space so maybe I have no right to interfere. So I shall withdraw.

I did not say that Firedragon. I said you were correct and I offer that @George-ananda also had some truth stated.

We can discuss.

Regards Tony

 

[George-ananda]

Not true.

You are saying not true to my mention of the existence of minor prophets.

I must refer you to the Baha'i Teachings website.

Two Categories of Prophets

The Baha’i texts distinguish between major prophets—also called universal manifestations, those who bring a new “Book” and start a new religion—and minor prophets, those who assist, reinforce, or reinvigorate an existing religion.

In discussing this distinction in his book Some Answered Questions, Abdu’l-Baha contrasted the “independent” prophets or the manifestations of God with the minor prophets who are themselves followers of the manifestation in whose dispensation they live:

Prophets are in general of two kinds. Some are independent Prophets Who are followed, while others are not independent and are themselves followers.

The independent Prophets are each the Author of a divine religion and the Founder of a new Dispensation. At Their advent the world is clothed in a new attire, a new religion is established, and a new Book revealed. These Prophets acquire the outpouring grace of the divine Reality without an intermediary. Their radiance is an essential radiance like that of the sun, which is luminous in and of itself and whose luminosity is an essential requirement rather than being from another star: They are like the sun and not the moon. These Daysprings of the morn of Divine Unity are the fountainheads of divine grace and the mirrors of the Essence of Reality.

The other kind of Prophets are followers and promulgators, for their station is contingent rather than independent. They acquire divine grace from the independent Prophets and seek the light of guidance from the reality of universal prophethood. They are like the moon, which is not luminous and radiant in and of itself but which receives its light from the sun.

Link

@TransmutingSoul

 

[InvestigateTruth]

They mention the Bab and Baha'u'llah were Messengers.

Regards Tony

He says, that, the Revelation that started with the Bab has three part
He then uses some verses as well as traditions from other religions as evidence. He uses symbols in word BAHA, which is made of three letters, B H A, and says, B was the Bab, and H is Bahaullah, because Baha'u'llah referred to Himself as Letter B and H in Iqan. Now letter A is the third one to come to complete.
Then he says, just as there is Son, Father and Holy Spirit , three, this revelation has three part.
Then he goes on and brings some verses to show when and where this was supposes to come.
He quotes the Bab


"ISSUE forth from your cities, O peoples of the West and aid God ere the Day when the Lord of mercy shall come down unto you in the shadow of the clouds with the angels circling around Him"

Saying this verse is about the Manifestation in the west, America to appear.
He then refers to other verses and traditions from other religions to farther explain about this Third person who must come after the Bab and Bahaullah as part of this revelation.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Bible is not a good book for this. It talks about Talut (a) and Sulaiman (a) in a way that first honors them then later degrades them. Same with Mariam (a) sister of Musa (a) and Haroun (a) brother of Musa (a).

It's degrading towards God's chosen. It's been seriously corrupted.

If you offer the Word of Allah as given to Christians, I see there is no foundation one can stand on, to prove the Quran is not likewise corrupted? Muhammad did not write the Quran either, he recited it.

Now when you research what remains of those original Words, then the Quran has the same foundation as the Bible. Oral transmissions before the final version is compiled.

Now in offering that I see the Bible is a sure Guide and contains the Word of God. It does have some errors, it is a much older document.

I see the Quran is also a sure guide and contains the Word of God and does not contain errors.

The Baha'i Writings have both the Word of Allah penned by the Messenger and the Word of Allah recited and recorded by a scribe. The copies are still available.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

He says, that, the Revelation that started with the Bab has three part
He then uses some verses as well as traditions from other religions as evidence. He uses symbols in word BAHA, which is made of three letters, B H A, and says, B was the Bab, and H is Bahaullah, because Baha'u'llah referred to Himself as Letter B and H in Iqan. Now letter A is the third one to come to complete.
Then he says, just as there is Son, Father and Holy Spirit , three, this revelation has three part.
Then he goes on and brings some verses to show when and where this was supposes to come.
He quotes the Bab


"ISSUE forth from your cities, O peoples of the West and aid God ere the Day when the Lord of mercy shall come down unto you in the shadow of the clouds with the angels circling around Him"

Saying this verse is about the Manifestation in the west, America to appear.
He then refers to other verses and traditions from other religions to farther explain about this Third person who must come after the Bab and Bahaullah as part of this revelation.

Ha ha ties back into your post in the Baha'i DIR.

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The point is by their logic, they shouldn't interpret any of their scripture since they aren't firmly rooted in knowledge but a Prophet is. So anything this Prophet says about their scripture should be accepted. If he says it means x and y, and they say it means m and n, they have to submit to him. Same way they expect Muslims to leave the day of judgment meaning.

True. God can do as He wills.
But we do not blindly accept Baha'u'llah and His words. He had to first prove Himself, then we follow. Because it is impossible for God to send a Messenger and ask everyone to submit and obey Him, but does not give proofs and evidence of divinity