Race and Religion

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Well, it's like why are some non-white people interested in European religions? Should European descended people be made uncomfortable about that?

You can not compare faiths that came from the African diaspora and developed due to slavery and oppression in order to honour our ancestors. Euro faiths have a completely different context. Why would white people want to honour their ancestors in the context of voodoo? Makes no sense since voodoo also served as a rebellion against those same white ancestors.

Even if some people have done that, why should a person be viewed with suspicion simply due to the color of their skin? As long as they aren't taking it out of context themselves, why should there be a problem?

A lot of white people do that in boarder culture. E.g Native American headresses. So yeah the suspicion is valid.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I'm sorry to hear that you feel like a bit of an outcast in Hinduism.

Vinayaka is more Hindu than me. I am but an atheist Hindu. Perhaps he had an out-caste experience ages ago. He is very much a part of his temple and the community in his area. And he, of course, is a leading light of Hinduism forum here. I think you already know that.

 

[SomeRandom]

You have to understand why POC get suspicious about including white people in their faiths. I don't really blame south Asians for staring at you when you go to Hindu temples. There are white people who culturally appropriate and are disrespectful to other faiths esp Hinduism because of all the new age, modern hippie bs. "Oh I was Hindu for 2 months" How can you be Hindu for 2 months!?
It also makes me uncomfortable when white people are interested in practising voodoo or being rasta as those faiths developed out of oppression and the African diaspora, why would a white person be interested in being a part of that?
White people have a history of taking what is sacred to other cultures and turning it into a trend and even hypersexualising it.

You know, there are actually some Indians (from India no less) who are actually whiter than your average Caucasian? It's some sort of phenomenon in North India or something. Like for reals. Hell I'm white and I'm half Desi.

We had this Irish (white as snow, if that matters?) lady who attended my Temple before she moved to India. No one batted an eye and the Pundit always went out of his way to accommodate her. No one cared. She was deeply devout and respectful. And in turn we were always respectful towards her. Some even praised her immense amount of faith.

Religion shouldn't be exclusive to any supposed "race" (does race even exist? I thought anthropology destroyed that notion decades ago? Well, whatever, that's a different thread.) "Whites" should be as free as anyone else to explore their own religious path.
Yeah, "whites" have a bad track record or whatever. But that isn't all of them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You can not compare faiths that came from the African diaspora and developed due to slavery and oppression in order to honour our ancestors. Euro faiths have a completely different context. Why would white people want to honour their ancestors in the context of voodoo? Makes no sense since voodoo also served as a rebellion against those same white ancestors.

I'm friends with a white Englishman who practices Vodoun. I'm half black and my black ancestry is from New Orleans and there's Creole in my heritage. I had no problem with that. He is very knowledgeable and respectful about it. Vodoun is a result of a mixture of cultures and many of the "black" people who practice it have a lot of white ancestry as it is.

A lot of white people do that in boarder culture. E.g Native American headresses. So yeah the suspicion is valid.

So? A lot of white people during colonial times often ran away and joined native tribes.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Vinayaka is more Hindu than me. I am but an atheist Hindu. Perhaps he had an out-caste experience ages ago. He is very much a part of his temple and the community in his area. And he, of course, is a leading light of Hinduism forum here. I think you already know that.

Definitely.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

You know, there are actually some Indians (from India no less) who are actually whiter than your average Caucasian? It's some sort of phenomenon in North India or something. Like for reals. Hell I'm white and I'm half Desi.


We had this Irish (white as snow, if that matters?) lady who attended my Temple before she moved to India. No one batted an eye and the Pundit always went out of his way to accommodate her. No one cared. She was deeply devout and respectful. And in turn we were always respectful towards her. Some even praised her immense amount of faith.

Religion shouldn't be exclusive to any supposed "race" (does race even exist? I thought anthropology destroyed that notion decades ago? Well, whatever, that's a different thread.) "Whites" should be as free as anyone else to explore their own religious path.
Yeah, "whites" have a bad track record or whatever. But that isn't all of them.

Excuse me what? Light skin south Asians are still POC why are you mentioning them to me?
Did I say every single white person is disrespectful when it comes to other faiths? I said the suspicion is valid.
And I stand by what I said that white people have no place honouring their ancestors in the context of African diaspora faiths. So we have to agree to disagree.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Excuse me what? Light skin south Asians are still POC why are you mentioning them to me?

"POC" is such a stupid concept, for the record. Just another divisive concept. It's as stupid as the terms "white" and "black", and just as non-existent.

Did I say every single white person is disrespectful when it comes to other faiths? I said the suspicion is valid.
And I stand by what I said that white people have no place honouring their ancestors in the context of African diaspora faiths. So we have to agree to disagree.

Who are you to declare that? Are you the Pope of Vodoun? You know that many or most black people in the diaspora have white ancestors, so they're honoring white people when they venerate their ancestors. Why should ethnicity matter that much when it comes to religion? Do you think our souls have an ethnicity?

 

[SomeRandom]

Excuse me what? Light skin south Asians are still POC why are you mentioning them to me?
Did I say every single white person is disrespectful when it comes to other faiths? I said the suspicion is valid.
And I stand by what I said that white people have no place honouring their ancestors in the context of African diaspora faiths. So we have to agree to disagree.

I brought it up because it's still racist to assume that all Indians all Asians all whatever are a particular pigmentation. Also, because I found it somewhat amusing.

Suspicion just causes undue problems and for what? Some knee jerk assumptions based on the way a person looks, paying particular notice to their skin color. Is that not a form of racism?

I'm a proud south Asian. But I don't even believe in this "POC" nonsense or white or black or brown or whatever. My Aunty has a pigment condition where she is quite literally half white and half brown. So I have never understood this need for identifying as any particular "color" or lack thereof as a person. It's not a defining characteristic, not for me or any other of my friends. Most of whom are like me, of mixed heritage. We are people, not colors.

What if a "white" person is an ancestor of a slave? The unfortunate implication of slavery in the past is that it bore a lot of ******* kids. Some of their bloodlines are bound to be alive today. Some might even be totally white. Who knows? And who cares? Maybe they just happened to be drawn to that path by their ancestors! You don't know their genealogy.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Also, Maman Brigitte, a Death Loa, is a white woman. So is Erzulie Freda. So stop with the foolishness. There are plenty of white and mixed Vodouists.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I brought it up because it's still racist to assume that all Indians all Asians all whatever are a particular pigmentation. Also, because I found it somewhat amusing.

Suspicion just causes undue problems and for what? Some knee jerk assumptions based on the way a person looks, paying particular notice to their skin color. Is that not a form of racism?

I'm a proud south Asian. But I don't even believe in this "POC" nonsense or white or black or brown or whatever. My Aunty has a pigment condition where she is quite literally half white and half brown. So I have never understood this need for identifying as any particular "color" or lack thereof as a person. It's not a defining characteristic, not for me or any other of my friends. Most of whom are like me, of mixed heritage. We are people, not colors.

What if a "white" person is an ancestor of a slave? The unfortunate implication of slavery in the past is that it bore a lot of ******* kids. Some of their bloodlines are bound to be alive today. Some might even be totally white. Who knows? And who cares? Maybe they just happened to be drawn to that path by their ancestors! You don't know their genealogy.

The Gods call who They will. I'm not of Greek or Italic ancestry, but I'm in love with Greco-Roman religion.

 

[SomeRandom]

The Gods call who They will. I'm not of Greek or Italic ancestry, but I'm in love with Greco-Roman religion.

Exactly. Spirituality is about the soul and your connection to........well whatever. Nature, God/Goddess, self etc. I don't think the soul cares how much melanin you happen to have.

 

[SomeRandom]

Also just to point this out, but didn't ALL of humanity (by that I mean homo sapiens sapiens)start in Africa anyway? So how is it not honoring your ancestors if you happen to go down the path of an African religion?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Exactly. Spirituality is about the soul and your connection to........well whatever. Nature, God/Goddess, self etc. I don't think the soul cares how much melanin you happen to have.

Gods and ancestors are also known to call people of certain cultures to religions that are of another culture. They aren't as bigoted as humans are and they seem to enjoy doing it.

 

[SomeRandom]

Gods and ancestors are also known to call people of certain cultures to religions that are of another culture. They aren't as bigoted as humans are and they seem to enjoy doing it.

Perhaps it's their way of bridging us together?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Perhaps it's their way of bridging us together?

Probably so. You can gain understanding in other cultures that you can't get from your own.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I brought it up because it's still racist to assume that all Indians all Asians all whatever are a particular pigmentation. Also, because I found it somewhat amusing.

Suspicion just causes undue problems and for what? Some knee jerk assumptions based on the way a person looks, paying particular notice to their skin color. Is that not a form of racism?

I'm a proud south Asian. But I don't even believe in this "POC" nonsense or white or black or brown or whatever. My Aunty has a pigment condition where she is quite literally half white and half brown. So I have never understood this need for identifying as any particular "color" or lack thereof as a person. It's not a defining characteristic, not for me or any other of my friends. Most of whom are like me, of mixed heritage. We are people, not colors.

What if a "white" person is an ancestor of a slave? The unfortunate implication of slavery in the past is that it bore a lot of ******* kids. Some of their bloodlines are bound to be alive today. Some might even be totally white. Who knows? And who cares? Maybe they just happened to be drawn to that path by their ancestors! You don't know their genealogy.

When did I say all Indians are of a certain pigmentation? A light skin Indian person is still Indian that is still their culture, you can't compare it to a white person who is interested in the Hindu faith.

 

[SomeRandom]

When did I say all Indians are of a certain pigmentation? A light skin Indian person is still Indian that is still their culture, you can't compare it to a white person who is interested in the Hindu faith.

Well I was being more general, not saying you did specifically.
Why not? I know plenty of "white" Hindus. It is not my place or really any other practicing Hindu's place to say they are not a "real" Hindu. It's technically against the philosophy of Hinduism anyway (of course, people being people will do so regardless. Le sigh.)
I grew up in the Indian Community. My Mum is Fiji born, so I grew up with Fijian Culture as well. Indian culture is Indian culture, mate. It doesn't automatically include Hinduism. Some of them do seem rather weary of Chinese people for some reason, though.*shrugs*
Any person is welcome in Hinduism. Hinduism spans not just varied beliefs (soft and hard polytheism, monotheism, atheism and everything in between is found in Hinduism) but cultures and dare I say it "races." It's a very pluralistic pathway.
To declare that it is only for "Indians" is actually bad Dharma or Artha, depending on your circumstances. Well in my view at least.

 

[Vinayaka]

Wow, I thought this thread was a done for, but it got very revised. I think, that regardless of the situation of other race newcomers feeling like outsiders in whatever religion, time and sincerity alters that dramatically.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Well I was being more general, not saying you did specifically.
Why not? I know plenty of "white" Hindus. It is not my place or really any other practicing Hindu's place to say they are not a "real" Hindu. It's technically against the philosophy of Hinduism anyway (of course, people being people will do so regardless. Le sigh.)
I grew up in the Indian Community. My Mum is Fiji born, so I grew up with Fijian Culture as well. Indian culture is Indian culture, mate. It doesn't automatically include Hinduism. Some of them do seem rather weary of Chinese people for some reason, though.*shrugs*
Any person is welcome in Hinduism. To declare that it is only for "Indians" is actually bad Dharma or Artha, depending on your circumstances. Well in my view at least.

I never said it was only for Indians or Asians in general. I said I understand the suspicion. You may not understand it or empathise with it but I do.

 

[Vinayaka]

You have to understand why POC get suspicious about including white people in their faiths. I don't really blame south Asians for staring at you when you go to Hindu temples. There are white people who culturally appropriate and are disrespectful to other faiths esp Hinduism because of all the new age, modern hippie bs. "Oh I was Hindu for 2 months" How can you be Hindu for 2 months!?
It also makes me uncomfortable when white people are interested in practising voodoo or being rasta as those faiths developed out of oppression and the African diaspora, why would a white person be interested in being a part of that?
White people have a history of taking what is sacred to other cultures and turning it into a trend and even hypersexualising it.

Don't worry, I understand it very well. It's been 40 years. Last year when we went to 13 temples in Vancouver BC, in 4 days, I can't recall ever feeling like an outsider. But then, at my own temple, a young man from Sri Lanka who had only very recently arrived 'stared' enough to come and ask me about it. Some of the other watchers (who've known us for 30 years) of the entire scene thought it was funny. Most likely it was his very first time seeing it, and for any first time experience, there is a certain awe to it. After that initial night, he and I had a great time at the festival.

I just think it's a larger factor over-all than many of us realise.