Return of Christ

[InChrist]

The second coming of the Christ has already happened in my life, it was realizing that my true self is in fact is the Christ, just as everyone else's self is.

I think you have either been deceived or are attempting to deceive others, at least according to the words and warning of the real and only Jesus Christ... And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ’ and will deceive many. Matthew 24:4-5

 

[psychoslice]

I think you have either been deceived or are attempting to deceive others, at least according to the words and warning of the real and only Jesus Christ... And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ’ and will deceive many. Matthew 24:4-5

Yes many will say they are the Christ, but how do you know who is and who isn't, your just being judgmental and self righteous.

 

[Ingledsva]

no, they were jews according to the biblical account.

Vs 29 He was talking and disputing with the Greek-speaking Jews, but these made attempts to do away with him.

As were most of them at the time.


Actually the people in this group were Jewish converts to Christianity, the Hellenists, that had moved back to Judea.


So a Christian group that thought he was false and/or taking them off track - thought to kill him.



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[Ingledsva]

Yes, he did persecute christians. But he didnt kill Jesus.

No - LOL - I said he was a killer of the FOLLOWERS of Jesus. This is after Jesus was dead.



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[Ingledsva]

you are taking these verses way out of context.

Act 9:26 was just after his conversion and the disciples in Judah didnt know about it so were rightly afraid of him. He was formerly the persecutor of them.... but if you keep going in that passage you see that they did accept him and took them in among themselves.

Acts 9:26 'On arriving in Jerusalem, he made efforts to join the disciples, but they were all afraid of him, because they did not believe he was a disciple. 27 So Bar′na·bas came to his aid and led him to the apostles, and he told them in detail how on the road he had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had spoken boldly in the name of Jesus. 28 So he remained with them, moving about freely in Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord.

29 He was talking and disputing with the Greek-speaking Jews, but these made attempts to do away with him.

30 When the brothers found out about this, they brought him down to Caes·a·re′a and sent him off to Tarsus.

It was the jews who were trying to kill Paul, and it was the Christians who protected him by getting him out of Jerusalem and of to Tarsus safely.

Those Greek speaking Jews were Hellenists - Jewish converts to Christianity, that returned to Judea.


Acts 9:29 actually says Hellenists, in the Greek.


So Christians had a problem with him.



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[Pegg]

As were most of them at the time.


Actually the people in this group were Jewish converts to Christianity, the Hellenists, that had moved back to Judea.


So a Christian group that thought he was false and/or taking them off track - thought to kill him.



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you dont think its a little strange that a group who had put the mosaic law aside and who had vowed to put down their swords were at the same time seeking to put someone to death???

I find that a little hard to reconcile.

It makes much more sense that the biblical account of the 'greek speaking jews' actually were greek speaking jews who were trying to do away with Paul.

 

[Pegg]

Those Greek speaking Jews were Hellenists - Jewish converts to Christianity, that returned to Judea.


Acts 9:29 actually says Hellenists, in the Greek.


So Christians had a problem with him.

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No way. It doesnt even fit with the context of the verse in question.

Look, 28 So he remained with them, moving about freely in Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord. 29 He was talking and disputing with the Greek-speaking Jews, but these made attempts to do away with him. 30 When the brothers found out about this, they brought him down to Caes·a·re′a and sent him off to Tarsus.

Paul is said to be moving about in Jerusalem 'speaking boldly in the name of the Lord'
Who is he speaking boldly to? Not to fellow christians because fellow christians were doing the same thing...they were speaking to the inhabitants of Jerusalem about Jesus. Thats what the disciple Stephen was doing when he was stoned by the jews.

Then look at Vs 30... when the 'brothers' heard about the plan of the greek speaking jews to do away with Paul, they brought him out of the city to protect him.

The question is why in one breath would Christians be called "greek speaking jews' and in the next 'brothers'?

Sorry, but what you are saying is not at all making sense. Why not call them 'greek speaking christians'? Answer is simple: they were Jews, not christians.

 

[Muffled]

In Matthew chapter 24, the greek word used is not 'coming' but 'presence'

"What will be the sign of your 'parousia' "

The scripture uses the greek word for 'presence'. So the answer to the disciples question should be understood to mean that when they see the signs occuring, it would signify that Jesus was already 'present' in kingdom power.

The time has already come and Jesus is already judging.

I believe we have a similar word in English "perousal" which means to look into but not to get into. However there is an ongoing sense to the word of continuing action.

Although one must be present to perouse one does not have to enter in, so being present does not necessarily mean on earth but can mean being outside earth looking into it.

The question says coming so my question for you is whether Jesus uses the same word for come in verse 5.

I believe Jesus is always present in Kingdom power.

I believe all power including judgement is in His hands from the time that He said so.

I believe that Jesus is not physiacally near the earth yet but will be soon.

 

[Muffled]

Soon, as in...?
One thousand years?

Many use the 1946 date of the return of Jews to israel and measure a generation from that so that it would happen before 2016 but I use a sign that came in 1974 and that puts it before 2044.

 

[Muffled]

Yes many will say they are the Christ, but how do you know who is and who isn't, your just being judgmental and self righteous.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

I beleive even the antichrist who is as close as anyone will get at mimicking Jesus will not fool a person who knows Jesus personally.

 

[sojourner]

Call it whatever you like, I call it biblical...

Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” Revelation 11:15

You can call it what you will, but it is what it is, regardless of nomenclature. You could call it 'ice cream sundae" for all I care, but it's still dispensationalism and imperialism.

 

[sojourner]

I think you have either been deceived or are attempting to deceive others, at least according to the words and warning of the real and only Jesus Christ... And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ’ and will deceive many. Matthew 24:4-5

Lucky for the rest of us, what you *think* has no bearing on the matter.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

Lucky for the rest of us, what you *think* has no bearing on the matter.

And what you *think*, does?

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

What part of break-away groups don't you understand?

I fail to see what "break-away" groups has to do with anything. Paul was accepted by Peter, who was a direct follower of Christ and a witness to the Resurrection. That is a biblical. All of that other stuff about different disciples who started their own groups or sects is completely irrelevant to Paul's testimony, especially considering 1Corin 15:3-7.

 

[sojourner]

And what you *think*, does?

Not at all. But what Psychoslice thinks does matter with regard to his own theological constructions.

 

[InChrist]

Not at all. But what Psychoslice thinks does matter with regard to his own theological constructions.

I agree that what Psyhoslice thinks very important and does matter. That is the reason I shared that the idea of one's self being Christ or that this is somehow the second coming is a false notion and deception according to the scriptures.

 

[sojourner]

I agree that what Psyhoslice thinks very important and does matter. That is the reason I shared that the idea of one's self being Christ or that this is somehow the second coming is a false notion and deception according to the scriptures.

Is it? I find Psychoslice's notion intriguing -- and quite probably correct from a metaphysical standpoint. Why can Jesus not be, in a sense, an amalgam of the human story, fashioned in the form of an individual's story, in order to impart a theological understanding of who we are and why it matters?

 

[Ingledsva]

Those Greek speaking Jews were Hellenists - Jewish converts to Christianity, that returned to Judea.


Acts 9:29 actually says Hellenists, in the Greek.


So Christians had a problem with him.

No way. It doesnt even fit with the context of the verse in question.

Look, 28 So he remained with them, moving about freely in Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord. 29 He was talking and disputing with the Greek-speaking Jews, but these made attempts to do away with him. 30 When the brothers found out about this, they brought him down to Caes·a·re′a and sent him off to Tarsus.

Paul is said to be moving about in Jerusalem 'speaking boldly in the name of the Lord'
Who is he speaking boldly to? Not to fellow christians because fellow christians were doing the same thing...they were speaking to the inhabitants of Jerusalem about Jesus. Thats what the disciple Stephen was doing when he was stoned by the jews.


ING - Actually the text specifically says HELLENISTS. Google - "Who were the Hellenists in Acts?"

They are Christians.



Then look at Vs 30... when the 'brothers' heard about the plan of the greek speaking jews to do away with Paul, they brought him out of the city to protect him.

The question is why in one breath would Christians be called "greek speaking jews' and in the next 'brothers'?

Sorry, but what you are saying is not at all making sense. Why not call them 'greek speaking christians'? Answer is simple: they were Jews, not christians.

They were Christian Jews = Hellenists.

Obviously, from the texts shown, we have more then one group of Christians that did not trust Paul, - that thought he was changing scripture, - and they thought he was dangerous enough to try to kill him, - as he had once tried to kill them.


I decided to just look it up for you guys. From Exploring the Book of Acts Chapter 6 | Grace Communion International


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"Luke turns away from the conflict between the Sanhedrin and the church leaders to introduce two groups within the Jerusalem church. They were the “Grecian” Jews (Greek, Hellenistai, or “Hellenists”) and “Hebraic” Jews."


"The Hellenistic Jews are those who speak mainly Greek, and formerly lived outside of Judea and Galilee. But they had settled in Jerusalem — retired, as it were, to the homeland. Nevertheless, they still have affinities with lands of the Jewish dispersion from which they came. The Hebraic Jews are those who speak mainly Aramaic, and were born in Jerusalem or Judea."


"Some commentators feel that the Hellenistic Jews are more devoted to the ancestral religion and culture than the Aramaic-speaking Jews."



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Many of us feel that Paul took the beliefs of Jesus, - away from their Jewish roots, - and Jesus as the HUMAN Jewish Messiah, - into Pagan concepts - Godhood, etc.



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[Desert Snake]

[/B]

Highly unlikely. Paul was WRITING TO CHURCHES already extant, he didn't "invent" Christianity.

 

[sojourner]

Highly unlikely. Paul was WRITING TO CHURCHES already extant, he didn't "invent" Christianity.

It just shows how immediate the church was, because Paul began preaching about 18 months following the crucifixion. To churches that were already extant.