I can agree with that. But I dont think the trinitiarians really do believe that. Why do they claim that Jesus 'IS' God?
Because we believe that there is a biblical basis for thinking such.
There are also millions of angles in heaven who also share the same nature as God....they are all spirits.
Angels know what it is like to be spirits. Humans know what it is like to be human. Neither human or angels know what it is like to be GOD.
Kind of like regular corn flakes, and frosted flakes...yeah, they are both flakes, but one has sugar on it lol.
There is a difference, Pegg.
Trinitarians actually believe that Jesus was God incarnate on earth....thats a little different to believing that Jesus is a spirit like God.
Pegg, if the Father came on earth manifested in human flesh, would he cease being God? No. In that same way, the Son was God incarnate on earth.
Yes i do believe that.... i believe all the angles of heaven share the same nature as God.... as does Jesus. But I would never say that this makes any of them Jehovah God.
Pegg, ultimately, a spirit just means you are immaterial, in the sense of the "essence of one's being". Thats it...so just because angels are spirits doesn't mean that they necessarily have power, knowledge, presence, or even of good moral character.
He is worthy because God gave him such an honorary role.
Philipians 2:8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bendof those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Pegg, God gave Jesus an honorary role and placed him on the same level of honor worthiness as himself? Really? Well, if that's the way you look at it. I don't believe anyone should be honored as the Father, unless that person is on the same level as the Father, which I believe Jesus is.
Notice the reason why Jesus was exulted was because he, as a slave of God, willingly died in the service of God. His absolute faith, obedience and humility is why he was exulted....not because he was God.
Plenty people died in the service of God, Pegg. Stephen, John the Baptist, James, and even some of the martyred disciples, but we would never put them on God's level. Second, that wasn't the only reason why Jesus was exalted, it was the whole totality of verses 6-9.
we are to show honour to all of Gods faithful servants...
Romans 12:10 In brotherly love have tender affection for one another. In showing honor to one another, take the lead
Phillipians 2:3 Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with humility consider others superior to you
1Peter 2:17 Honor men of all sorts, have love for the whole association of brothers, be in fear of God, honor the king.
Romans 13:7 Render to all their dues: to the one who calls for the tax, the tax; to the one who calls for the tribute, the tribute; to the one who calls for fear, such fear; to the one who calls for honor, such honor
Notice that neither of those scriptures say to honor anyone in the same way you honor the Father.
He was the 'firstborn of all creation'... the 'master worker'... Gods 'chief spokesman'
He was a mighty spirit in heaven before he became a man. Proverbs 8 speaks of him as the one who worked along with God in the creation of all things:
Proverbs 8:22 Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From ancient times I was installed, From the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth, When there were no springs overflowing with water. ...7 When he prepared the heavens, I was there; When he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters, ...30 Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time; 31 I rejoiced over his habitable earth, And I was especially fond of the sons of men. 32 And now, my sons, listen to me; Yes, happy are those who keep my ways.
Now now now Pegg, that scripture is talking about wisdom. That is the subject of the entire chapter. Witnesse's erraneously somehow drew the conclusion that it is talking about Jesus, when from the very beginning of the chapter, Wisdom is the subject.
In verse 12 it states, "I, Wisdom, share a home with shrewdness..." and the "I" is carried on all the way through the rest of the chapter.
More Watch Tower deception.
This passage is speaking about Jesus before he 'humbled himself and took a slaves form'
But my point is, if he had to take the form of a slave, then what was his form before that?
if thats the sort of honor God wants us to show, then yes. We show Jesus the honor he deserves and the honor that Jehovah God requires of us.
I agree, we should do what God requires us to do...I just don't see how a mere creation (on your view) should be honored in the say way that God is. The difference in honor should be night and day.
It doesnt mean that we should be worshiping Jesus though.
Its good you know what I am implying
Well tell me, If Proverbs 8 is not speaking about Jesus, who do you think that individual could possibly be???? The one in Proverbs is 'beside God'... Who else but Jesus is in such a position???
Wisdom...as even the NWT mentions. Throughout the beginning of the chapter, the subject never changed...but suddenly, when it gets to verse 22, all of a sudden Jesus is somehow thrown in the mix of things, out of NOWHERE.
No one would do this UNLESS they are adding their presuppositions to the bible. Adding their own theology...as the bible certainly doesn't say that.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist,
The word "other" isn't in any other translation other than the NWT. I understand the WT would like to think they have the greatest translation of the bible that man has ever translated, but they are simply being deceitful, because they know that their followers will rarely (if ever) question the organization, and if the organization changed its mind and now Jesus is God, the members will just follow.
I challenge you to give me one translation or version of the bible that has the word [other] in the context. Witnesse's want to harmonize Proverbs 8:22 with Col 1:15, to make it seem as if Jesus was created and "assisted" God with creation...however, this is added theology and bad presuppositions. This isn't scripture.
Rev 3:14 To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce′a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/709-was-christ-originally-created-by-god
I don't post links often, but this is a great article involving Rev 3:14.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
One of the most debated verses in the bible.....ever.
It was possible for Jesus to do so because he was not a son of Adam...he was not genetically broken by sin as we are.
Satan was not a son of Adam either, and he still sinned...so did the rest of his followers. Second, didn't Jesus have his same character in heaven that he had on earth?
Before Adam sinned, he was also a perfect man and 'sinless' ... so Yes, its absolutely possible for mankind to be that way again... and through Jesus, we will be.
Yeah, Adam didn't sin...yet. He would have eventually sinned because no one is perfect. It was always possible for Adam to sin, and he eventually did. What was special about Jesus is, he would have never sinned under ANY circumstances. That is what separates real men from the boys.
Jesus wasnt' marred by Adams sin. Every other human who has ever existed has been marred by Adams sin. Thats why they all died and why we all continue to die.
Again, neither was Satan. Whether or not someone sins has to do with more than just how they were born or created.
