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Salvation in Christianity

cataway

Well-Known Member
I did not say I was going to turn into a spirit, I said I am going to be raised as spiritual body. That is what the Bible says:

1 Corinthians 15:44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

The Bible does not say: They are buried as natural human bodies, and they will be raised as natural human bodies.

just so you won't be surprised when that does not happen.
there will be some that will be going to heaven . it was not revealed to Paul as to how many would be going to heaven.yes there is a set number. he not knowing that could be confusing to you.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
I did not say I was going to turn into a spirit, I said I am going to be raised as spiritual body. That is what the Bible says:

1 Corinthians 15:44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

The Bible does not say: They are buried as natural human bodies, and they will be raised as natural human bodies.

just so you won't be surprised when that does not happen.

To be honest, what Christians believe about the afterlife saddens me, but it explains why so many of them are earthbound after death, either wandering aimlessly or staying near their grave or the place where they died. They are either confused about what has happened to them or very angry and feeling betrayed because they are not in heaven, as they believe they would be, or asleep in their grave, waiting to be resurrected, as they believed they would be.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
there will be some that will be going to heaven . it was not revealed to Paul as to how many would be going to heaven.yes there is a set number. he not knowing that could be confusing to you.
The Bible says nothing about a 'set number' who will be going to heaven.
The Bible also says nothing about anyone remaining on earth after they die.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
To be honest, what Christians believe about the afterlife saddens me, but it explains why so many of them are earthbound after death, either wandering aimlessly or staying near their grave or the place where they died. They are either confused about what has happened to them or very angry and feeling betrayed because they are not in heaven, as they believe they would be, or asleep in their grave, waiting to be resurrected, as they believed they would be.
To be honest, I think the Christians who are most confused are the Christians who believe they are going to spend eternity on earth rather than in heaven. Maybe that explains some earthbound spirits, since they cannot face the reality that heaven is where they are supposed to go after they die. These Christians don't feel betrayed because they are not in heaven because they don't want to go to heaven. These are the ones who will be the most confused.
 

Apostle John

“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
The idea that “I am saved” is different than “I will be saved”. Christians are to strongly identify with the Kingdom by identifying with the former.

Still, the question that should follow: If I am saved, then why am I not in the Kingdom of Heaven? Someone cannot be saved from a flood while they are still in the flood. Christians will respond to this by explaining that “I am saved” and “I will be saved” are actually the same, but that is a move which weakens identification with the Kingdom.

Christians, don’t soften on this - you are saved, but then confront the question: if you are saved, then why aren’t you in the Kingdom?
I am saved and in heaven, as any Christian true to the faith is. I am also one of a lucky few to have the spiritual gift of words of knowledge/wisdom (as in the spiritual gifts described in the Bible).

God once told me, on separate occasions ‘I want you to be happy’ and ‘you’re in rapture’. Being in rapture is a spiritual joy, joy being one of the nine fruits of the Spirit, along with patience.

The signs of today show the actual rapture is going to be this generation, only reserved for true Christians.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
When Dead Means Dead “A live dog is better off than a dead lion. For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.”—Ecclesiastes 9:4, 5.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
To be honest, I think the Christians who are most confused are the Christians who believe they are going to spend eternity on earth rather than in heaven. Maybe that explains some earthbound spirits, since they cannot face the reality that heaven is where they are supposed to go after they die. These Christians don't feel betrayed because they are not in heaven because they don't want to go to heaven. These are the ones who will be the most confused.

Maybe in some cases, but I haven't met any earthbound human spirits who said that they were destined to remain on earth and not be in heaven with Jesus immediately after their death or they believed that they should be asleep in their grave until a future resurrection of believers and unbelievers. As I've demonstrated before, the Bible clearly has contradictory teachings about the afterlife, but this probably isn't the thread to address that again.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
When Dead Means Dead “A live dog is better off than a dead lion. For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.”—Ecclesiastes 9:4, 5.
That's right, but that refers to the physical body, not to the soul.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Maybe in some cases, but I haven't met any earthbound human spirits who said that they were destined to remain on earth and not be in heaven with Jesus and God immediately after their death or they should be sleeping in their grave until some kind of future resurrection of believers and unbelievers.
Maybe that is because you have not met any earthbound spirits who were JWs.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
the person the body is a soul
No, the soul is the person.
The soul is the sum total of the personality so it is the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind remains the same person, and he goes to the spiritual world where he continues the life he conducted in the physical world. The soul takes on some kind of a spiritual body made up of elements that exist in the spiritual world.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Yeah, lots of people are attached to this world.

It is sometimes difficult to convince an angry or confused spirit to cross over. Other times, it is difficult to convince a confused spirit that they are dead, but once the spirit realizes that they are dead and accepts it, then the panic and feelings of anger and/or remorse kick in, and I have to deal with that too.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
KJ21
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
ASV
And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


BRG
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

there are more bibles that say soul . BTW the opposite of a living soul is a dead soul
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
It is sometimes difficult to convince an angry or confused spirit to cross over. Other times, it is difficult to convince a confused spirit that they are dead, but once the spirit realizes that they are dead and accepts it, then the panic and feelings of anger and/or remorse kick in, and I have to deal with that too.
Sounds like you have your work cut out for you.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
KJ21
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
ASV
And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


BRG
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

there are more bibles that say soul . BTW the opposite of a living soul is a dead soul
Man became a living soul because God created man to be a living soul.

There is no such thing as a dead soul because the soul cannot die because the soul is eternal.
There is such a thing as a dead body because the body cannot live forever because the body is mortal.

Bible verses that say that 'the soul that sins shall die' mean that the soul that sins will not attain eternal life. Eternal life is nearness to God.
All souls will continue to exist forever since the soul is eternal, but some souls will be near to God and some will be distant from God.
 
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