Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Well, maybe that spirit will eventually cross over. I cannot imagine one wanting to remain on earth forever.
Question: What does a disembodied spirit do on earth with no body?
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Salvation in Christianity
- Thread starter Treasure Hunter
- Start date
Question: What does a disembodied spirit do on earth with no body?
cataway
Well-Known Member
no such thing
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
In some cases, when a person dies suddenly and unexpectedly, their spirit may not know that they are dead, so they go about doing what they were used to doing while they were alive, and they can't figure out why no one they know acknowledges them anymore. Other earthbound spirits are aware that they have died, but they are either in denial of their death, angry that they died suddenly and have unresolved issues, they died a tragic death or died violently and are looking for justice, or they are very sad that they did not have time to say goodbye to their loved ones or settle problems with those who are still alive. Earthbound human spirits will either wander around aimlessly as they try to figure out their situation and what to do next, or they will stay close to their grave, the place where they died, or somewhere that was special to them when they were alive, such as their home or even their favorite bar or pub.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What I don't understand is how they can not know they are dead since they don't have a physical body so they don't have physical needs such as eating and sleeping, etc.
I can understand why they might be angry, feel they have unresolved issues, seek justice, and feel sad that they never had a chance to say goodbye given some of my personal circumstances surrounding the tragic death of my late husband. It is a helpless feeling not to have any closure.
Since I am wandering around aimlessly trying to figure out what to do next I can understand how they might feel. However, I can do something about my situation whereas they cannot do anything so that must feel awful.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
For Christians, it is like they have already boarded the aircraft, whenever the aircraft rolls out. What is the Bahai problem with that?
It is not a promise which has no guarantee, it is a fact, a given thing.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Aircraft going where?
The sin of Adam when he and Eve disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden by eating the fruit. Since Man could never repent by himself, God said he would send a redeemer who would pay for the sin … God himself incarnated as Jesus. The illogic of the whole tawdry affair is why I left Christianity.
(I haven’t read through the whole thread yet, so I don’t know if anyone answered)
Those beliefs border on obsession, along with the obsession with demons and Satan. They obsess over being saved, or rather, they take pride in being saved. Just live in a way that ensures a good afterlife instead of focusing on the afterlife.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Why do you believe in spirits? Is there any evidence of that?
Answer: The same that the unicorns do when their wings are clipped off.
(since silly questions demand silly answers)
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Heaven, wherever it is. On Earth or somewhere else in the universe. Where do Bahais go after death?
For me, it is very clear (provided my body is cremated). Up with the smoke mostly as water vapor, carbon in my body will change to carbon Di-oxide or carbon Mono-oxide. The residue, bones, will change into lime, Calcium Oxide.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, there is evidence but I am not the one who has seen the evidence.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Baha'is do not call it heaven, we call it the spiritual world, and it is not a geographical location.
Abdu'l-Baha said the other world is within this world, that there is no real separation between the two worlds, whatever that means.
I like to call where we land the afterlife landing strip, but that is just my little joke.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Well, wherever you think you will go. What's in a name? Heaven or Spiritual World. You mean 'Nowhere Land'.
Did not Abdul-Baha clarify what he meant (you said 'whatever it means')? After all that the three generations wrote!
You have bought the ticket but do not know where to? That is quiet funny.
Did not Abdul-Baha clarify what he meant (you said 'whatever it means')? After all that the three generations wrote!
You have bought the ticket but do not know where to? That is quiet funny.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, it doesn't really matter what we call it.
You might want to ask some Baha'i like @Truthseeker since he knows more about the Writings than I do.
But for now, I don't think we are capable of understanding what that means so that is probably why Abdu'l-Baha didn't explain it.
I did not buy the ticket, it was free. All we have to do to get there is die and then we go to the spiritual world.
It is not a round trip ticket, it is one way.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Based on my experience as a psychic medium assisting earthbound spirits to cross over, I believe that one of the main reasons some spirits are unaware they are dead is because they died unexpectedly or died a traumatic death and are in a state of confusion. They are disoriented, and it may take some time for them to realize they are dead, or they may have to be told by a medium. Do you remember the story of the young girl's spirit that I shared with you a few weeks ago? She was in a state of confusion after her death and didn't realize that she was dead until she noticed that her mother couldn't see or hear her, at which point it suddenly dawned on her that she was dead (read my post here). Other earthbound spirits have asked me if they're dead, and I've had to tell them that they are. I once spoke with the spirit of a woman who asked me if she was dead. I told her yes, and then I asked her if she knew how she died, and she told me the last thing she remembered was feeling a sharp pain in her chest and that she couldn't breathe. She was upset and very sad that she died so suddenly. She was one of the spirits that I encouraged to cross over into the spirit world. And while investigating a haunted location with other paranormal investigators, we heard a spirit speak through a Spirit Box and ask, "Am I dead?" and this spirit also said, "I'm confused!" Later, we heard another spirit fretfully say, "The children aren't in heaven yet!" and another one asked, "Where is Jesus?" I've been asked, "Where is Jesus?" several times.
It is commonly believed in the paranormal field and among psychic mediums that when someone passes away abruptly (such as in a car accident or from a sudden heart attack), they are unaware that they have died and are in an initial state of confusion. Based on my personal experience as a medium and a paranormal investigator, this belief has been validated by the spirits I've communicated with, as well as the many EVPs I've listened to on a Spirit Box or that other seasoned paranormal investigators have captured on an EVP recorder or digital recorder. I decided to share the following article because it provides a more detailed explanation for why some human spirits are unaware that they are dead. I hope that you find the article insightful, my friend.
4 Reasons People Don't Know They're Dead
Occasionally, when people suddenly die, some are completely unaware that they're actually dead. Time in spirit is different from ours and these spirits go about living just as they did in life--completely unaware that they're dead. This is certainly difficult for the living to comprehend. Read...
imaginespirit.com
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Nice subterfuge. "I know but you will not understand it".
Nothing is given out free. To see the Emperor's New Clothes, one has to get his nose cut.
That was in response to a comment distinguishing body and soul. You're aware that when the computer stops, so does the software, correct?
You must have a different definition of truth than I do. I don't use the word except with ideas that have been demonstrated empirically to be correct. You're using the word to refer to ideas that feel right to you intuitively, or that others whom you have believed by faith have told you were correct.
But the words don't speak. You have to read or hear them, and if they're in a language you know, determine what they mean. That's the fate of all evidence, meaning sensory experience. First, the mind tells us what it signifies according to experience and memory (cognitive content), and then how we feel about that (affective content).
Why would one believe otherwise? Because a book says so? Why wouldn't the afterlife be like before life - oblivion? Other possibilities are imaginable, but where is the evidence for them? Near death experiences? They're dreams of the living.
"Gut" generally means intuition as opposed to reasoning, as in, "I can't give you an evidenced argument. It just feels correct." Feeling in one's heart means the same thing. These describe the difference between empirical knowledge and belief by faith. If one believes by faith, he's trusting his gut (or heart).
It's an interesting metaphor that no doubt has its origins in physical reality. Experientially, we confuse heart and gut. Heartburn is in the esophagus, angina is often mistaken for indigestion, and people say my heart sunk or I had butterflies in my stomach in emotional settings. This is probably due to experiencing the autonomic nervous system, which is found in the thorax and abdomen: "The solar plexus — also called the celiac plexus — is a complex system of radiating nerves and ganglia. It's found in the pit of the stomach in front of the aorta. It's part of the sympathetic nervous system." The sympathetic nervous system is activated by anxiety-producing circumstances, when we tend to make automatic responses without much thinking - hence the gut or heart is speaking.
The sum of the personality is the output of the brain. You can call that the soul. I call it the personality. Either way, we should expect the light to go out when the bulb breaks.
Shouldn't they be? Sagan's pale blue dot is the ground we stand on, the air that we breather, and the food we eat. It's where the people we love are found. It's where all experience occurs and all life is lived.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That's not what I said. I said maybe Abdu'l-Baha didn't explain it because 'we' could not understand it, meaning none of us could.
Since I cannot understand it that means I do not KNOW, so I cannot explain it to you.
I did not say that getting to heaven is free. I said entrance into the spiritual world is free.
DNB
Christian
You're overlooking the implication of being saved - a guarantee has been issued.
Is a fiancé not married? She is betrothed with an oath and ring, and therefore cannot behave in an unmarried fashion from the time that she became engaged.
Unless you are speaking of the doctrine of 'once saved, always saved', of which I don't believe that you are. But, on that note, yes, the engaged person can ultimately never become married for a plethora of different reasons. So, equally, I believe that a Christian can lose their salvation by renouncing their faith and Christ.
But, again, I don't believe that this is your question. You are asking can one either be or belong to something if they are not there yet. God has instituted a means towards salvation that requires faith that on Judgement Day, those who have accepted Christ as their lord and saviour will enter into the Kingdom of God. And, that those who don't, will not.
Faith is the requirement that God demands, whereas you are seeking tangible proof. A Christian believes that Christ will return to gather the elect (those who have repented of their sins in the name of Jesus Christ), to bring them into his kingdom. Life must go on in order to bring as many as possible into the faith, and therefore the Kingdom has not been inaugurated yet but has been sealed with a vow. This is the delay that appears to confound you.
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