Laniakea
Not of this world
It's not the first time I've heard a plan dismissed as fascism without any evidence of it being true.
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Senate Republicans oppose Reproductive Freedom for Women.
- Thread starter fantome profane
- Start date
Laniakea
Not of this world
When they didn't want to be forced to be injected with a "vaccine", their body suddenly wasn't their own, and neither was the choice. That's when they were labeled as murderers for "trying to kill Grandma".
But it's fun to watch you guys and your double standards.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
That you think the vaccine was about bodily autonomy is most comical.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
What has "no evidence'? As stated you would need to prove that.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Oh my, no one was forced to inject a vaccine. And yes, people that are selfish that was were rightly called "grandma killers". That is not forcing people to do the right thing. And some jobs required it. But one could always find work elsewhere. There are many jobs that require their workers to get various vaccines. For example nursing homes, in my state at least, required people to get an annual flu shot.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Kentucky and Kansas are deep Red states!
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Which is why polls may be very misleading this election this fall. It is the people that are not Republicans or Democrats that decide close elections. And that means that many of those in the middle may let their abortion concerns make up their mind for them.
Exactly. Access to birth control is very different than killing the unborn in the womb.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
No other topic have I been troubled over more than this topic as it took years before I could finally find some resolve. The bottom line for me is mainly two-fold:
1. Should I or the government have the power to tell a woman what she must do with something inside of her, and...
2. if abortion is so morally repugnant, then why does God allow miscarriages?
Thus, I'm pro-choice since I don't believe that I or the government should mandate that which is inside her.
1. Should I or the government have the power to tell a woman what she must do with something inside of her, and...
2. if abortion is so morally repugnant, then why does God allow miscarriages?
Thus, I'm pro-choice since I don't believe that I or the government should mandate that which is inside her.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
When it comes to reproductive freedoms, so far, they've all been on the side of more freedoms, not less. Even Republican women value their bodily autonomy.
That's my point.
I'm not going to respond to an argument I've not made because you're trying to deflect away from the topic at hand.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Yep! That was a huge part of my point. Even Republican women value their bodily autonomy. Go figure!
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
About 10 to 20% of pregnancies end with a miscarriage. Eighty percent of those are in the first 12 weeks.
Miscarriage - Symptoms and causes
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
You'd rather these infants suffer short agonizing lives outside the womb then, is that it?
This is what happens when you take away women's reproductive freedoms.
You end up with higher infant mortality rates. From the people who claim to be protecting the "unborn."
Texas SB 8 and Increases in Infant Deaths | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
The year after Texas passed its restrictive abortion law, infant deaths in the state increased.
Infant mortality rate rose 8% in wake of Texas abortion ban, study shows
A new study shows the infant death rate in Texas went up in the wake of the state's abortion ban. The analysis published Monday out of Johns Hopkins University is the latest research to find higher infant mortality rates in states with abortion restrictions.
"Conclusions and Relevance This study found that Texas’ 2021 ban on abortion in early pregnancy was associated with unexpected increases in infant and neonatal deaths in Texas between 2021 and 2022. Congenital anomalies, which are the leading cause of infant death, also increased in Texas but not the rest of the US. Although replication and further analyses are needed to understand the mechanisms behind these findings, the results suggest that restrictive abortion policies may have important unintended consequences in terms of trauma to families and medical cost as a result of increases in infant mortality. These findings are particularly relevant given the recent Dobbs v Jackson Women’s Health Organization US Supreme Court decision and subsequent rollbacks of reproductive rights in many US states."
Infant Deaths After Texas’ 2021 Ban on Abortion in Early Pregnancy
This cohort study of recorded infant deaths examines infant mortality after the passage of the 2021 ban on early abortions in Texas.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So called "late term abortions" are almost never done as abortions of convenience. Those tend to happen long before one can call an embryo or fetus an "unborn child". They are done, as you have pointed out, to prevent massive suffering by forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term. They are also frequently done to save the woman's life. Late term abortions are had by people that really wanted to have a child to only hear that if the fetus survives the pregnancy it will have an extremely short and painful life. Oh, and they are sometimes done to remove a dead fetus. Fetuses do die at times. The body does not just "poop" them out automatically at times. And carrying a dead body around inside a woman can be a very serious health risk.You'd rather these infants suffer short agonizing lives outside the womb then, is that it?
This is what happens when you take away women's reproductive freedoms.
You end up with higher infant mortality rates. From the people who claim to be protecting the "unborn."
Texas SB 8 and Increases in Infant Deaths | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
The year after Texas passed its restrictive abortion law, infant deaths in the state increased.publichealth.jhu.edu
Infant mortality rate rose 8% in wake of Texas abortion ban, study shows
A new study shows the infant death rate in Texas went up in the wake of the state's abortion ban. The analysis published Monday out of Johns Hopkins University is the latest research to find higher infant mortality rates in states with abortion restrictions.apnews.com
"Conclusions and Relevance This study found that Texas’ 2021 ban on abortion in early pregnancy was associated with unexpected increases in infant and neonatal deaths in Texas between 2021 and 2022. Congenital anomalies, which are the leading cause of infant death, also increased in Texas but not the rest of the US. Although replication and further analyses are needed to understand the mechanisms behind these findings, the results suggest that restrictive abortion policies may have important unintended consequences in terms of trauma to families and medical cost as a result of increases in infant mortality. These findings are particularly relevant given the recent Dobbs v Jackson Women’s Health Organization US Supreme Court decision and subsequent rollbacks of reproductive rights in many US states."
Infant Deaths After Texas’ 2021 Ban on Abortion in Early Pregnancy
This cohort study of recorded infant deaths examines infant mortality after the passage of the 2021 ban on early abortions in Texas.jamanetwork.com
There is no time quite often for some person that is medically illiterate to decide whether a woman really needs an abortion or not, and that is the position that many antiabortion states have put themselves in.
By the way, it was legal to ban late term abortions before Roe v Wade was overturned. But in states where they had such laws it was the doctor that decided without the state second guessing them.
Late term abortions were simply not ever "abortions on demand"
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
'The updated analysis considers 2021 CDC data, before the Dobbs decision, in a post-Dobbs policy landscape. The analysis shows that abortions at or after 21 weeks are uncommon and represent 1% of all abortions in the U.S. Ninety-six percent occurred at or before 15 weeks gestation, while 3% occurred from 16 to 20 weeks gestation.
Notably, discussions about abortions occurring later in pregnancy are often fraught with misinformation; in fact, abortions occurring “moments before birth” or even “after birth” are illegal in the U.S. and do not occur.
KFF also looks at the other issues with abortions later in pregnancy, including the expense of the procedures, which often require travel and lost wages, and the lack of availability given that they are only performed by a fraction of abortion providers. Additionally, KFF explores why people seek abortions later in pregnancy, including medical concerns such as fetal anomalies, maternal health, or life endangerment, as well as barriers to care that cause delays in obtaining an abortion.'
www.kff.org
www.kff.org
Notably, discussions about abortions occurring later in pregnancy are often fraught with misinformation; in fact, abortions occurring “moments before birth” or even “after birth” are illegal in the U.S. and do not occur.
KFF also looks at the other issues with abortions later in pregnancy, including the expense of the procedures, which often require travel and lost wages, and the lack of availability given that they are only performed by a fraction of abortion providers. Additionally, KFF explores why people seek abortions later in pregnancy, including medical concerns such as fetal anomalies, maternal health, or life endangerment, as well as barriers to care that cause delays in obtaining an abortion.'
What the Data Show: Abortions Later in Pregnancy | KFF
Following recent news about former President Trump’s potential support for a national 16-week abortion ban, KFF examines the data about how often abortions later in pregnancy occur, exploring the potential reasons why, and detailing the various laws that regulate access to abortions later in...
www.kff.org
Abortions Later in Pregnancy in a Post-Dobbs Era | KFF
This brief explains why individuals may seek abortions later in pregnancy, how often these procedures occur, and the various laws which regulate access to abortions later in pregnancy across the country.
www.kff.org
OB/GYNs seem to disagree, as they are leaving states with abortion bans.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
What the data says about abortion in the U.S.
The U.S. abortion rate has generally declined since the 1980s, but there have been slight upticks in the late 2010s and early 2020s.
www.pewresearch.org
Regiomontanus
Eastern Orthodox
Right, they are chasing the $
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
No, rather, they're trying to avoid being prosecuted for doing their damn jobs properly.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Those without honor or integrity can not see honor and integrity in others.