Should Believers Avoid and Fear Athiest?

[Willamena]

Yep. Atheist logic, a very uncomplicated thing, is just... you know... logic... The entire concept of god is illogical. No offense intended; even if you believe in god, do you find the concept to be logical?? Seriously, do you??

No...

I can only base belief on logic.

 

[GadFly]

You asked what is the universe like without god. Since I don't believe in god, naturally I would assume the universe to be as it is. It's like asking what is the world like as a sphere. What kind of logic would you look for in an answer to that? Perhaps it was the way you worded your own question.

And what to you constitutes an attack? Disagreement and disbelief?

If you are not happy with the way the question is worded, ask it any way you please and answer it that way too. That will not offend me.

Any answer with an unchanging premise will do fine.

 

[GadFly]

No one should fear anyone... based on religion that is... We should all just say "We are both wrong in the eyes of eachother; there is no need stressing over it." and then we can go laugh, because laughing is...so...fun. Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!

I agree!

 

[GadFly]

Wow. Where to begin? Um, where else would Aristotelian logic come from? Last I checked, Aristotle was a Greek, right?

If there is no relativity in God, then why do so many people have so many different ideas about him, some of them conflicting?

Humans discovered logic. Logic is like math, not a belief. You don't make it up, it's already there, and everyone uses the same kind. Please explain how an atheist's logic is screwed up? Examples would be great.

What's wrong morally with Communists? Is it bad to want everyone to be equal in all things?

How do the premises of an atheist change? There is no God, done. That's the premise of an atheist, and has been ever since there was a word "Atheist".

So, anything that challenges your faith is stupid stuff only meant to distract you from blindly believing in something illogical?

Give me an example of using Aristotelian logic in my daily life. And then tell me how that is bad.

Please feel free to point out the fallacies in my logic. If there are fallacies, I'd love to fix them.

The GadFly was swatted at. The ancient Greeks did not invent logic, as you say, it was just there. The Greeks identified what was logical. Western Civilization accepted it and named it Aristotelean logic.

God is absolute. Do you agree with that? God is like math, 2+2=4; always has and always will be. If people did not learn to count correctly, they might call 2+2=5. If you can't count correctly, you can't use math well. God is like math, he is eternally true. If you can't add correctly, you might call 2+2 anything. If you can't think by eternal rules of logic, you might call God anything too. That explains conflict as about as simple as it can be explained to a first grader.

"Give me an example of using Aristotelian logic in my daily life." Walking down the street you trust Aristotelian logic. In your philosophy of life, you use Hegelian logic, especially if you are a communist. If you want to know why communism is evil, you best go to China for the Olympics, live there for a while, practice the freedoms you have on this forum; come back and tell me how happy you were there.
"So, anything that challenges your faith is stupid stuff" If you think communism is good stuff, I think anything that challenges my faith is stupid stuff.

Here's a question for you. Can God make a rock bigger than he can.... Nay, that's a stupid question too.
GadFly

 

[GadFly]

Why are you now asking this question? Because your previous rant seemed to sum up what we believe or think. How can you say our logic is this way or that way if you need us to explain "athiest logic" to you.......


What particular area of atheism do you not understand?

science vs. evolution

our view on god(s), religion.....etc.....

Your statements come off as generalizing athiest. What we need to know from you is what it specifically do you not understand.

I understand it all. You don't believe in God making logic impossible; you are prone to believe anything at any time. If you are really serious, don't ask me, ask the Russian people or people in China who have to live under this logic.

 

[GadFly]

GadFly

Whatever the hypothesis.....we need to know any and all data involved so that it can be scrutanized, tested, confirmed or debunked.....What we know continues to change because we continue to learn more. This is part of the "scientific method" some one referred you to.

You summize a god as a creator. This understanding is taught. This way of thinking is learned and is indoctrinated into a person. Some will tell you the gods did it and some will tell you a god did it. None of these ways of thinking have an iota of proof of what they purport. Every aspect of a god is from the minds of men and can not be tested, proven or disproven.

I did not summarize God as a creator here, but I accept that idea. I do not agree that initial understanding is taught. If the way of thinking depends on being taught, how did we ever learn our first fact, like mother, solidarity, spacial relations, etc. Does the fact that you know these things from birth represent an iota of proof to you?

 

[GadFly]

You need to try harder then. Out of all of your posts that I've read only this and one other was anything close to respectful.

Then, you don't want your neighbor to be just as happy as you? That's very selfish. Most religions would say that that is a bad view to hold. I think it's human nature, but human nature isn't always the most productive way to go. That's why we try to get past it sometimes, and that's why communism came into existence. It is also, sadly, why communism failed, because people couldn't be happy with everyone being completely equal. Many people only feel good about themselves when they feel superior to others.

Actually I don't see. Maybe you could explain it better, please?

You must have respect before you can recognize it.
Now, to answer the rest of your questions. Can God create a rock bigger than he....nay, that's a dumb question too.
GadFly

 

[GadFly]

It's too bad there are people who think like you out there.

Oh! What a great comeback and response.

 

[GadFly]

And you do what you do. There's nothing wrong with that. This is what we have been trying to relay to GadFly. No, Athiest should not be feared.

Theist have enough to worry about coming from other theist.....

the
GadFly agrees with that. I always have.

 

[GadFly]

On what premise do you support this assertion?

Willamena, you may not be aware of the fact that your comment about my being rude came specifically at a bad time for me. I think I had asked for this opinion thinking no one would be able to say I was rude. I still don't see how I was rude but maybe things are not as I see them. This was on another thread on which I was asked to leave. Your innocent comment was joined by a few others that were upset with me.They obviously thought they had a reason to be upset with me. I was in the process of assessing my behavior to determine if I had been rude and had not realized this. Things on that thread exploded, words were exchanged and things became heated. It seemed the more I apologized the worst things became.

The conflict that started on different threads came to this thread. Things have been rather fun here,too, since the fire started. There have been several implied insults exchanged. In the past few hours the tone has calmed down which I appreciate. I am not going to ask again for any body to give their opinion on my behavior or am I going to apologize for it in the same manner. I simply am going to try to do better in expressing my opinion in a less controversial manner. That being said, I am still open for intellectual criticism of my ideas.

Lawyers argue like this all the time. Suddenly they stop and turn to the subject at hand. They say that they had to get the Pis***g contest over before getting down to business. Now, everybody, are you ready to go back to business or do you want to empty your bladder a little more first? Me, I am finished.

Why do I make this assertion. Logic is as good as the premises upon which it is based. If the premise of thinking changes, conclusions will vary with the change in premises. If you thought premises change, you could never have faith in science.

God is the only eternal premise that can be conceived of that does not change. As such a person that does not believe in God does not have a solid premise that does not change. Some cultures are based on premises that change, like China. Some Liberal Judges believe premises change. To these people there is no Absolute. However, as fact would have it, people do not live by this logic of premises changing all the time. Part of the time people believe in premises that do not change. People do not live by their intellectual knowledge. Does anybody do what is correct all the time? I don't, no matter how hard I try. The argument on this thread is an example.
That's it, all in a GadFly shell.

 

[Willamena]

God is the only eternal premise that can be conceived of that does not change. As such a person that does not believe in God does not have a solid premise that does not change.

Perhaps; but ideas about God are constantly changing and being renewed, and those are what we know God by.

 

[gnostic]

If a god is truly omnipotent, does He really need defending?

Why must you harass atheists or other non-theistic people with preaching and attempts of conversions? Such attempts are nothing more than persecution.

 

[Reverend Rick]

If a god is truly omnipotent, does He really need defending?

Why must you harass atheists or other non-theistic people with preaching and attempts of conversions? Such attempts are nothing more than persecution.

There are way more Atheists who take pot shots and proselytize than any other group.

I believe the problem is, you believe you have freedom from religion, which you don't.

Non religious proselytizing is an oxymoron and is the biggest reason so many get away with it.

Another reason is, Christians are a minority on the moderation staff.

Gnostic's post is a classic example of the hypocrisy. First there is a shot taken at Christians, and then an appeal for relief from the same.

 

[rasor]

You are welcome to explain your non-fallacies ideas. For example, what is the universe like without God?:bow:

Just look around you.Its all out there.

 

[Magic Man]

Oh! What a great comeback and response.

It's not a comeback, just a statement of my disappointment in the world sometimes.

 

[rasor]

s.

Both have the same tools, faith and reason.

Paul said it best:

Wrong,atheists do not use faith as a basis for their lack of belief in a god,only logic and reason.

 

[rasor]

i recently red something about the biggest enemy of Muhammed(PBUH). if i am not mistaken he was Prophet's uncle. he was so mean and he's even mentioned in Qur'an. i could relate with an atheist because Prophet is a human being, flesh and bone, someone who looks like anyone and also, God is unseen.

according to the story, this guys does not want Prophet to salaat. one day he sees him praying and he gets mad. he grabs him to prevent him from salaat. yet when he touches Muhammed(PBUH), angels appear before his eyes and his hand feels tremendous heat. so he immediately removes his hand away not to burn.

that is what i can't relate. i know that if i was born somewhere else, if i grew up in different conditions, i could have been an atheist. yet what happened to that guy if ever happened to me, i could never resist anymore. i would not but he did. how is that possible? how could a person not consider such a thing as a proof? what kind of proof would make him believe?

i guess only atheists have the answer.

The question is,how do you know all that story is true ? And the answer is you can't prove it, only believe it.Thats where your faith kicks in which an atheist hasn't got.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Wrong,atheists do not use faith as a basis for their lack of belief in a god,only logic and reason.

Nice try. Agnostics are the only group that adhere to science when deciding their beliefs.

Think about it. Most Atheists have had a bad experience with religion and became turned off by it. Now they stick their head in the sand and claim it all does not exist.

Neither side can prove anything to the other because lack of proof on one side is not proof positive for the other side.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

You don't believe in God making logic impossible;

How so? Did you not watch the video? How is not believing in a god make logic impossible. The world has benefited from countless theist and non-theist throughout history.

you are prone to believe anything at any time.

This is not a one sided deal. Theist are in the same boat. The christian and muslims have dozens of sects. "Their logic" and reasoning as to why they believe what they do are so vast. Some of their ideas, even though they may be all considered christian or muslim, are not compatible. Do we not see thousands linning up to take their complimentary flu shot every year? These people, theist and non-theist alike, are prone to believe that this vaccine is engineered to help them.

You believe in a god. OK.....We have no problem with it until you focus your belief system on us. I don't believe in gods. You have a problem with me not believing in a god. You believe that because I don't believe in a god my logic must be flawed. For kicks and giggles if I start beliving in Zeus or Vishnu or any of the countless gods would my logic be corrected or is it that I must believe in a judeo christian god? This is where logic is flawed. One does not have to believe in a god in order to think logically. This has already been proven. You reap the rewards of those non-theist in history who have paved the way for you to live the lifestyle you live today.

If you are really serious, don't ask me, ask the Russian people or people in China who have to live under this logic.

You know as well as I do that it takes a people (collectively) working together to effect change. If people don't like the way they live they change the system or they change themselves. The people of china and russia have come a long way. They don't live in the "oppressive" society they use to. Those that feel it is too oppresive move to other countries to seek a better life.

 

[kai]

Exactly like it is now.



Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Bahai all stem from the same Abrahamaic god.

a fact which diminishes each of them in credulity, that one god cannot direct his own followers in one path