Should Europe resist Islam?

[zenzero]

Friends,

When would we humans learn to speak directly, heart to heart without bringing in words of others? Just let us put our self in the others shoe and feel it and then speak. We should be guided by our own senses and not what some books teaches us. Afterall everything including humans are just but made of the same energy!

Love & rgds

 

[kai]

we also have Arabic and Persian words in our language as well as we have French words but this kind of exchange does not really kill who you are. in case Ottoman wanted to destroy Greece for instance, they could not survive. they spent like 400 years and IMO it is long enough to make surethey forget their own ID. but our kitchen is very alike, so what? we shared a time together and we have similarities but they are still Christians, they still speak Greek and they are still Greek people. they still have their 500 years old churches in their nations as well as they have Ottoman bridges. why would they have 500 year old church after spending centuries with Ottoman, can you tell? i mean, if they were really assimilated as you suggest...




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the Greek orthodox church virtually ruled Greece under the Ottoman millet, The church is what saved Greek nationalism not the benign nature of the Ottomans especially under Selim 1 who persecuted Christains.i did say Arab assimilation.

 

[.lava]

In many cases, they did. Since Christians and Jews were oppressed under the Ottoman Empire, many converted and lost both their language and religious identity.

Like what happened to most of the Egyptians after the Muslim invasion.

one the reasons why Ottoman failed is because they did not discriminate Jews or people from other beliefs. so they were worked for Ottoman empire then betrayed as usual.

when Christians started a genocide in Andalucia towards Muslims and Jews, Jews were saved by Ottoman ships.

i would leave Egyptian issue to Egyptians of RF



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[kai]

one the reasons why Ottoman failed is because they did not discriminate Jews or people from other beliefs. so they were worked for Ottoman empire then betrayed as usual.

when Christians started a genocide in Andalucia towards Muslims and Jews, Jews were saved by Ottoman ships.

i would leave Egyptian issue to Egyptians of RF



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all empires fail Lava, it failed because it was time to fail. Under Selim1 the Ottoman empire was one Billion acres of land, by conquest he actually trebled the empire. please dont tell me this was achieved peacefully.



i apologise to others if they think this thread is turning into a historical debate but i think its relevant to the "religion of Peace" idea that is propagated by Muslims if of course these empires are nothing to do with Islam then we are back to the same question where do we find the Islam that everyone is talking about? you know the peaceful one that gives everyone equal rights etc..

 

[.lava]

all empires fail Lava, it failed because it was time to fail. Under Selim1 the Ottoman empire was one Billion acres of land, by conquest he actually trebled the empire. please dont tell me this was achieved peacefully

it happened through wars, Kai. but public did not fight against Ottoman because they were already living under cruel kings. only soldiers of those kings who see their people as their slaves fought Ottoman and public did not protect their kings.

yes, all nations have a life time. but reasons are there as well. the last Ottoman shah was taken down by his own helpers who happened to be a few Jews and Armenians though he was the one who gave them power inside Ottoman.



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[kai]

it happened through wars, Kai.

but public did not fight against Ottoman because they were already living under cruel kings.

only soldiers of those kings who see their people as their slaves fought Ottoman and public did not protect their kings.

yes, all nations have a life time. but reasons are there as well. the last Ottoman shah was taken down by his own helpers who happened to be a few Jews and Armenians though he was the one who gave them power inside Ottoman.



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i was waiting for that Lava.

 

[~Amin~]

I would still like you all to be Muslim. Its up to you, you can try it.
see what you think.

 

[kai]

I would still like you all to be Muslim. Its up to you, you can try it.
see what you think.

Ha Ha i tell you what you try being an Atheist for a day and i will give it a shot ---deal?

 

[.lava]

i was waiting for that Lava.

lol it happens Kai. take Iraq as an example. they were really suffering because of Saddam. then Americans came and Iraqis seemed so happy. until the ugly truth appeared. but they did not fight USA at first. if USA was just, Iraq would not be like this today.



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[kai]

lol it happens Kai. take Iraq as an example. they were really suffering because of Saddam. then Americans came and Iraqis seemed so happy. until the ugly truth appeared. but they did not fight USA at first. if USA was just, Iraq would not be like this today.



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Ok but i could put the notion to you that most violence in Iraq now is Muslim on Muslim like the car bombs killed 112 people in Baghdad on Tuesday.

 

[~Amin~]

Ha Ha i tell you what you try being an Atheist for a day and i will give it a shot ---deal?

How is it that i call you to salvation, and you call me to enslavment?

 

[Sunstone]

How is it that i call you to salvation, and you call me to enslavment?

Don't be presumptuous.

 

[~Amin~]

Don't be presumptuous.

Im not, he's requesting that i give God's Qualities to His Creation.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

lol it happens Kai. take Iraq as an example. they were really suffering because of Saddam. then Americans came and Iraqis seemed so happy. until the ugly truth appeared. but they did not fight USA at first. if USA was just, Iraq would not be like this today.



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Why then do we not see the same level of civil violence in Kurdistan? No doubt the U.S. has made blunders and committed wrongs, but if that was all there was to it then Kurdistan should be like the rest of Iraq. But it is not. Clearly the deciding factor is not simply the presence of U.S. forces but also the hatred between Shiite and Sunni factions, Saddam loyalists, etc. It's so easy to blame the U.S., and the U.S. does deserve some blame, but many people predicted even if Saddam had been removed from power by a Shiite uprising, with no U.S. presence at all, there was likely to be a civil war and revenge killings. The civil war gained momentum when Al Qaeda bombed a holy Shiite shrine, remember? Bomb near Iraq Shi'ite shrine kills 7 | Reuters

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I think the problem with this thread title is the word "resist", in the current context I'm wary of saying anything that can be construed as violent.

I would emphasize politics. Should Americans resist the rise of neo-conservativism and xenophobia? In my opinion, yes. I'm talking about arguing against it, debating it, voting against it, etc.

I hope people everywhere in the world will nonviolently support real equality, freedom of expression, tolerance and human rights. As an extension of that, yes I hope Europeans, including European Muslims will oppose Shariah law and so forth.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Mr. Sprinkles,

I hope people everywhere in the world will nonviolently support real equality, freedom of expression, tolerance and human rights. As an extension of that, yes I hope Europeans, including European Muslims will oppose Shariah law and so forth.

A noble notion!
Surely second IT.

Love & rgds

 

[.lava]

Why then do we not see the same level of civil violence in Kurdistan? No doubt the U.S. has made blunders and committed wrongs, but if that was all there was to it then Kurdistan should be like the rest of Iraq. But it is not. Clearly the deciding factor is not simply the presence of U.S. forces but also the hatred between Shiite and Sunni factions, Saddam loyalists, etc. It's so easy to blame the U.S., and the U.S. does deserve some blame, but many people predicted even if Saddam had been removed from power by a Shiite uprising, with no U.S. presence at all, there was likely to be a civil war and revenge killings. The civil war gained momentum when Al Qaeda bombed a holy Shiite shrine, remember? Bomb near Iraq Shi'ite shrine kills 7 | Reuters

you're right, that part of Iraq is calmer than the rest of the nation. it is normal. USA first supported Saddam against Kurdish people and Saddam kinda tortured them for years. then time of Saddam was ended and US army came along and handed Saddam to Kurds. then they established a new government full of Kurdish people. at the same time all the records that belong to Turkmen people were burnt. now USA accept Barzani as a leader. there are a few members of Barzani family in government. Barzani is a Kurdish-Jewish tribe of Iraq. you might be wrong about your assumption about in case shii stopped Saddan that would be similar. i don't think so. though Iraq today is exactly like boiling water. very confusing. once in awhile i hear some Shii leader got killed. there are people who want peace and preach peace. i am afraid some people don't want peace in Iraq so Shii tribe leaders are getting killed. even since begining of Iraq chaos, something got me so bad. USA divided Iraq in 3 as in Shii, Sunni and Kurdish. i think it is very important detail. because both Shii and Sunni represent religious sections but Kurdish represent a race. there are Sunni Kurds, there are Shii Kurds and there are Jewish Kurds like Barzani. i think leading Shii and Sunni into war was planned by USA. seems like they had a deal with Kurdish people. to divide Turkey by starting civil war here, USA need Kurdish people. just like they used Taleban once upon a time, now they will use Kurdish people against Turkey. so, yea, Kurdish area appears to be calmer. thanks to USA. thanks to deal Kurdish made with USA, they sell out what belongs to all Iraqis which includes Shii and Sunni. but neither would cooperate with USA.




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[kai]

How is it that i call you to salvation, and you call me to enslavment?

funny that i was thinking the same thing!

 

[Mr Spinkles]

you're right, that part of Iraq is calmer than the rest of the nation. it is normal. USA first supported Saddam against Kurdish people and Saddam kinda tortured them for years. then time of Saddam was ended and US army came along and handed Saddam to Kurds. then they established a new government full of Kurdish people. at the same time all the records that belong to Turkmen people were burnt. now USA accept Barzani as a leader. there are a few members of Barzani family in government. Barzani is a Kurdish-Jewish tribe of Iraq. you might be wrong about your assumption about in case shii stopped Saddan that would be similar. i don't think so. though Iraq today is exactly like boiling water. very confusing. once in awhile i hear some Shii leader got killed. there are people who want peace and preach peace. i am afraid some people don't want peace in Iraq so Shii tribe leaders are getting killed. even since begining of Iraq chaos, something got me so bad. USA divided Iraq in 3 as in Shii, Sunni and Kurdish. i think it is very important detail. because both Shii and Sunni represent religious sections but Kurdish represent a race. there are Sunni Kurds, there are Shii Kurds and there are Jewish Kurds like Barzani. i think leading Shii and Sunni into war was planned by USA. seems like they had a deal with Kurdish people. to divide Turkey by starting civil war here, USA need Kurdish people. just like they used Taleban once upon a time, now they will use Kurdish people against Turkey. so, yea, Kurdish area appears to be calmer. thanks to USA. thanks to deal Kurdish made with USA, they sell out what belongs to all Iraqis which includes Shii and Sunni. but neither would cooperate with USA.

You realize the civil violence for years was a lot more than "once in a while some Shii leader got killed" right? Execution by sectarian hatred, shooting, suicide and vehicle bombs were the leading cause of death among Iraqi civilians for all these years. Medical journal reviews Iraqi sectarian violence, reports execution-style slayings top bomb deaths | World News - cleveland.com -

 

[Metempsychosis]

Wow so much has been said ssince ive been gone, to chop up my statement
without looking at the text, reminds me of what the media does.

That post when read completely,justifies why you call atheists as murderers.

THATS pretty serious wouldnt you think on my part? and even if i said something wrong, how could you JUDGE all Muslims cause of me?

You are the one who quoted from Quran.Isnt't Quran the books other muslims follow?

''Blessed is He who sent down the CRITERION upon His servant that he may be to the worlds a warner'' Qur'an 25v1

There are many scriptures that are far more interesting for me than the Quran .Just that you dont bother to read them.

Since you dont belive in God, there is no such thing as good or evil
isnt that correct?

No,just that you as a murderer,can do no free-thinking.

and since this is the case how can you say were
doing wrong, because according to you, anyone can do ANYTHING
and you have no criterion, so to argue is a self contradiction.

I dont need to study the books that you follow,which boasts things about itself.Your all-knowing God revealed to nomads of Saudi-Arabia,did'nt even know the religion present in Afganistan at that time.How do I expect that God,to know what is good and what is bad?

I would still like you all to be Muslim.

We all know that you dont worship God,you worship your religion.

Its up to you, you can try it.
see what you think.

Your comments show immature and juvenile you are.