-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Should Europe resist Islam?
- Thread starter sandandfoam
- Start date
Cobblestones
Devoid of Ettiquette
Kathryn,
What are you talking about?
You write, "Mangled body for mangled body - Muslims and atheists win hands down."
What war(s) can you attribute to the cause of atheism? Please don't side step my question and list wars initiated by an atheist as if "atheism" was the cause.
P.S. And the Inquisition did not end "a long time ago". It was alive and well only about 100 years ago. And it was not ended by the Church but as a result of the civilized stripping it of its power.
What are you talking about?
You write, "Mangled body for mangled body - Muslims and atheists win hands down."
What war(s) can you attribute to the cause of atheism? Please don't side step my question and list wars initiated by an atheist as if "atheism" was the cause.
P.S. And the Inquisition did not end "a long time ago". It was alive and well only about 100 years ago. And it was not ended by the Church but as a result of the civilized stripping it of its power.
LittleNipper
Well-Known Member
I don't believe Europe should drive Moslems out of Europe; however, they need to understand that religious freedom requires open discussion, debate, review, justification, and investigation. It is through openness that lies and inconsistances maybe exposed, holding the feelings that any old belief is of an equal value.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I see a very strange trend. the reaction of Muslim members to this very serious debate is pulling out a red herring instead of making their case.
I see people talking about the injustices the west commits in the middle east. well, with all due respect, people in the west and in western media, and even in this very thread openly criticize western policies. further more these policies have absolutely nothing to do with the problems of the Islamic societies, which are a big part of the debate here. how does criticizing the western intervention in the middle east helps making a case for Muslims to find their place in Europe?
Lets focus on the issues at hand: European society, and Muslim immigrants. lets discuss the serious issues which every European is concerned about: the lack of ability and maturity of very vocal Muslims to be able to digest criticism of religion and culture, imported tribal trends from Muslim lands such as honor killings, and foreign religious trends which are at odds with the European secular and liberal elements.
So far we've even had a Muslim member who's reaction to this issue was voicing the hope that Europeans convert to Islam. thats quite a disturbing post. and I'm sure the members who frequent this thread, would like some honest and more down to earth feedback from the Muslim members.
I see people talking about the injustices the west commits in the middle east. well, with all due respect, people in the west and in western media, and even in this very thread openly criticize western policies. further more these policies have absolutely nothing to do with the problems of the Islamic societies, which are a big part of the debate here. how does criticizing the western intervention in the middle east helps making a case for Muslims to find their place in Europe?
Lets focus on the issues at hand: European society, and Muslim immigrants. lets discuss the serious issues which every European is concerned about: the lack of ability and maturity of very vocal Muslims to be able to digest criticism of religion and culture, imported tribal trends from Muslim lands such as honor killings, and foreign religious trends which are at odds with the European secular and liberal elements.
So far we've even had a Muslim member who's reaction to this issue was voicing the hope that Europeans convert to Islam. thats quite a disturbing post. and I'm sure the members who frequent this thread, would like some honest and more down to earth feedback from the Muslim members.
Last edited:
Cobblestones
Devoid of Ettiquette
Kinda hard to do when 50 Europeans died after that silly Mohammed cartoon fiasco. How can you expect people who get so violent over a cartoon to have an open discussion/debate/review? Discussion and debate are only possible between rational parties.
Cobblestones
Devoid of Ettiquette
Good luck with that.
These issues are discussed frequently by Muslims, not necessarily in this thread. Speaking about myself, I think I have no say in this thread, I am just following and observing what Westerners have to say and at the same time I am acknowledging that the Islamic and Western values are two opposites. Should the West/Europe resist Islam? This is not a question for Muslims, but the question for us would be; how should Muslims act when Europe resist Islam?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
That is a very rational observation. Why is it a surprise that when the two cultures meet that sparks begin to fly? Shouldn't this be anticipated?
Now THAT is a very interesting question. Given that you have asked the question, logically, you must have some reasonable answer to the question.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Amusingly, I agree wholeheartedly, though I highly doubt we are coming from the same direction. Do you care to answer your own question and explain why it isn't surprising?
I'd like to add, if we are discussing the relationship between Islam and Europe, then what Europeans think about Islam and what Muslims think about Europe are interconnected. But as I see this thread is concerned with what Europe think of Islam and how Europeans should act accordingly.
LOL! You didn't look very hard nor long before coming up with that opinion, did you?
In the early years, the Christians only cherished those works of the Romans and Greeks that comported with their miserable religion. Consequently, there were numerous works that the Christians did not preserve. But lucky for us, the Arabs, and more broadly the Muslims, preserved some of those works. In many ways the most famous or influential body of work preserved by Muslims -- but not by Christians -- were the notes Aristotle's students had taken of his lectures. Their reintroduction into the West was a significant contribution to the Renaissance.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
And yet the Renaissance left the Muslim world in the dust and it has contributed little ever since. Why is that?
Baydwin
Well-Known Member
You would call Turkey, Bosnia and the UAE in the dust?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Um... what major contributions have they made? I'll wait.
LittleNipper
Well-Known Member
Open debate and discussion should win over rational people and chase the irrational ones away. I suspect that most Moslems move to the West, not in an effort to convert it, but because it is open, stable, and not irrational. Would making Europe or the Americas Muslem make them more rational? If that were the case, the Middle East should be very rational indeed. But is it? Are they really joyful? Are they content? Are they at peace among themselves? I believe the answer is a resounding NO! So, since GOD is perfect and Moslem societies are anything but, how can they say they are of GOD?
Western society doesn't claim to be of GOD and yet they seem more stable. Yet those nations have many Christian. Could they be more stable because of a christian witness?
Last edited:
