YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
I'm looking for something a bit more recent -- say, in the last 500 years. I'll wait.
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Should Europe resist Islam?
- Thread starter sandandfoam
- Start date
~Amin~
God is the King
Ok if i see something ill let you know InshAllah, but there is some
Amazing things here.
Why something recent? Does your life has more value than those who were before?
Cobblestones
Devoid of Ettiquette
Why? Wasn't it the Christians who ushered in the Dark Ages in the first place? Seems they are more stable because they use reason rather than superstition more effectively.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
[The executions and suicide bombings which killed Iraqi civilians] I think different Shiite and Sunni factions were doing it. It's very difficult for me to believe the U.S. was doing it, as you seem to be suggesting, I don't see any evidence for this. I have heard and seen many reports, including reports from Iraqis, including Iraqis very critical of the U.S., that say it was the sectarians who were carrying out ethnic cleansing and execution-style killings.
I just listened to a radio report the other day of a 30 minute BBC interview with a Kurdish man who wanted to help set up a democratic government in his city....(I believe it may have been Basra? Not sure.) .... after Saddam fell he started publishing his own newspaper to express his ideas. Someone thought his ideas were un-Islamic and shot him dead.
I read a blog written by a Sunni Iraqi refugee, who seemed to be mildly supportive of Saddam (not too surprising because it is common knowledge Saddam was very generous with the Sunnis while persecuting the Shiites). She was very VERY critical of the U.S. but never once accused the U.S. of actually carrying out the ethnic cleansing and executions and intimidating women to wear "Islamic" dress or interrogating people based on their name (too Sunni or too Shiite?) at checkpoints. She said it was the sectarians.
And it is well known (I thought) that Saddam deliberately persecuted the Shiites and the Kurds while favoring his own tribe. So the motive for revenge and inter-ethnic hatred was there, then Al Qaeda bombed the Shiite shrines, then the Shiite-dominated police and militias retaliated.... I know guys who were in Iraq, they were disgusted by the tortured, executed bodies they found every day in Baghdad, it's hard for me to believe they were the ones doing this.
And again none of this was a problem in Kurdistan, why, because Kurds had control over their territory (fewer terrorist attacks) and they had solidarity, the Sunnis and Shiites did not, the U.S. failed to provide security.
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monta
.
Setting the Record Straight, Islamic Science
So by the criteria of ymir Humphrey Davy and Horace wells invented anesthesia in the last 500 years so it is valid as a western scientific invention as per the criteria he has imposed, the fact that it had been invented 900 years before that by Islamic scientists means it doesn't count as an Islamic invention :sarcastic
There are a lot of Muslim scientists around, at NASA, in Cern working on the Hadron Collider, in hospitals and research facilities and universities around the world, your argument is as ridiculous as me asking you to name a western scientific invention that you can prove had absolutely no input from the Islamic world, the cultures are intertwinned.
Cobblestones
Devoid of Ettiquette
Funny that all those Muslim scientists are all in Western countries. I think the point was that since Islam is supposed to be so forward thinking that those NATIONS that embrace it would be at the forefront of medicine, which they aint.
No one said that there are no Muslim individuals who have not contributed. However, Islam does not cultivate ingenuity and scientific advancement whereas Western nations do which is why anything technological in the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran or any other Muslim nation were pretty much all designed and created by Westerners (I may be wrong about the UAE).
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
No, Monta, you are missing the point. Muslim scientists were marvelous up to the 15-1600's and then everything just stopped. There hasn't been much, of any note, since this golden era and that is a sad, but true, reality. Your bringing up these magnificent achievements of the distant past simply serves to underscore my point.
It was a nice try though.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
No, Monta, you are missing the point. Muslim scientists were marvelous up to the 15-1600's and then everything just stopped. There hasn't been much, of any note, since this golden era and that is a sad, but true, reality. Your bringing up these magnificent achievements of the distant past simply serves to underscore my point.
It was a nice try though.
Are you really going to start such a debate about muslim scientists again? Perhaps reference to the 200 already completed?
gnostic
The Lost One
~Amin~ said:
Sorry, but where's the example that evolutionists had actually kill people in the name of Darwinism? Do you have evidences that any army of evolutionists had violently attack and murder any religion or nation?
Don't confuse a theory that the survival of the fitest amount to the same as evolutionist massacring other people.
Terrorists? I see you don't understand the difference between terrorism and scientific theory, *edit*.
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kai
ragamuffin
what are the dark ages?
kai
ragamuffin
and how does the fact that there are Muslim scientists add to my point about which Islam is it that we are looking at? what face of Islam is the real one? in fact would the real Islam please stand up.http://www.leoratanenbaum.com/will_the_real_islam_please_stand_up__86824.htm all i am asking is that people look at Islam , look at the history , look at the fact that it is fragmented , look at hud punishments look at how this would fit into a modern mainly secular society and make a judgement, and yes someone posted that each individual will make a choice yes thats true, but we also have to understand why we shouldn't take someone's word for it when they call it the religion of peace , because from where i am standing there doesnt seem much historical evidence to support that notion. and what europe is dealing with is not conversion but immigration, immigration of people that have "their" version of Islam already.
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kai
ragamuffin
So do we use the Ottomans as an example of Islam? tell me TashaN should we resist Shia Islam in the west? or should we embrace Ahmadiyya?
Who gets to define Islam--or any religion? Which interpretation is more "real"? And why does unequal treatment of women always become the litmus test of authenticity? It makes you wonder who is the ultimate power--God, or men invested in protecting their own turf?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leora-tanenbaum/will-the-real-islam-pleas_b_213684.html
exactly what is it that we are questioning in Europe?
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Smoke
Done here.
I wouldn't say the Arabs made no advances, though most of the vaunted accomplishments of Muslim scholars were made by Persians rather than Arabs. However, it's a myth that the classical heritage would have been lost if not for Muslim scholars. The classical heritage was preserved, to the extent it was preserved, by Christians -- specifically, by Greek-, Armenian-, and Syriac-speaking Christians. What knowledge Muslims had of the classics was through these channels, and it was largely through Eastern Christians that the classics were re-introduced to Western Christianity, too.
Smoke
Done here.
That's largely my take on it, too, and if it's true, it's imperative for the West to resist Islam.
kai
ragamuffin
How? how can you resist an Idea? i don't think its possible to resist the idea of Islam,except on a personal level, that leaves the personification of Islam in the form of believers I.E. immigration.
~Amin~
God is the King
You just don't get it, if TOE is what you believe, then how can you complain?
because according to you its innate, to DOMINATE and RULE over the
weak.
Not just evolutionists, all
mankind should naturally want to KILL to DOMINATE if TOE is true.
''They used not to prevent one another from wrong that they did.
How wretched was that which they were doing''.Qur'an 5v79.
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kai
ragamuffin
well if you take the history of mankind in to count , they do! mankind dominates all other life forms on earth, and takes a great deal of interest in dominating other people.