Should Europe resist Islam?

[Cobblestones]

If memory serves me correctly, it was seen as a god given right.

Saint Paul also taught that slaves ought to be good to the Massa no matter how bad the Massa treated them.

 

[Smoke]

How? how can you resist an Idea? i don't think its possible to resist the idea of Islam,except on a personal level, that leaves the personification of Islam in the form of believers I.E. immigration.

I think you have to resist the Islamization of Europe in general, but I do think Europeans are crazy if they don't change their immigration policies. At the very least, immigrants should have to go through some kind of class. Something like, "Look, we're a secular society and we have freedom of the press, gay people, women in halter tops and nude beaches. If you don't like it, stay where you are."

 

[Cobblestones]

That as well as would muslims openly admit that they dislike England, i mean come on. Would you move to another country and then openly tell a surveyor that you hate the country, its laws, and its language?

In Santa Ana, California? Absolutely. Those blighters shut down the city to celebrate Mexican Independence Day and proudly fly the Mexican flag throughout several neighborhoods. It is also one of the filthiest, most disgusting, crime-ridden places in So Cal.

 

[Smoke]

You just don't get it, if TOE is what you believe, then how can you complain?
because according to you its innate, to DOMINATE and RULE over the
weak.

Evolution is about adapting and surviving, not dominating and ruling.

Not just evolutionists, all
mankind should naturally want to KILL to DOMINATE if TOE is true.

If that were true, Christianity and Islam would be good evidence for evolution.

 

[tumbleweed41]

You just don't get it, if TOE is what you believe, then how can you complain?
because according to you its innate, to DOMINATE and RULE over the
weak.
Not just evolutionists, all
mankind should naturally want to KILL to DOMINATE if TOE is true.

Well, you have certainly shown your ignorance on Evolution and the Theory of Evolution.

 

[Cobblestones]

In the United States, Lincoln jokingly said of Harriet Beecher Stowe (Uncle Tom's Cabin), that she single-handedly brought about the Civil War. She was also a writer of Christian hymns and had a very strong christian faith.

Did you ever read any of her writings? Her target audience was not Southerners but Yankee Christians who although they claimed to oppose slavery yet shunned those free black people who lived among them. Indeed, if "Christianity" was responsible for the abolition of slavery then she would never had needed to write what she did.

She didn't start anything and the Civil War was not about slavery anyhow, not at first anyways.

Christianity thrives when people are superstitious. Period. It has always been reactionary to scientific discovery and enlightenment. It is because of the Enlightenment and the rise of Humanism that slavery came to be seen as a moral issue. Christianity lived quite comfortably with the idea of slavery for well over 1500 years. I don't see how you can make a claim that it was Christianity that put an end to it.

 

[Caladan]

Im going to quickly answer this then move on, our friends are right getting
of the topic, and im sorry, i can give you many lengthy evidence from Qur'an,
and the prophets traditions, and the companions, and scholars, to show you
this is not taking it out of text, you just point me to another thread, and let me show you.

Whether this wisdom of Qur'an is understood or not depends on the
state of being of the reader.

You know... it is the 21st century. there are nations who have placed men on the moon, have sent crafts to Mars, and to orbit Venus and beyond. nations around the planet work relentlessly to scientifically and technologically advance. and yet you talk to us about evidence from a 7th century Arab scripture and about an Arab moon God. the state of being of the readers, as you say. is healthy. we are more interested in latest discoveries in the field of biological evolution and space exploration than in 7th century Arab mythology.
When will Saudi Arabia, the land of Hijaz develop a decent space program instead of enforcing Sharia?
You talk to us about the Qur'an and the truth of your religion, while American and British forces are roaming the streets of Baghdad.. once the center of the Abbasid Empire.

 

[Cobblestones]

I think you have to resist the Islamization of Europe in general, but I do think Europeans are crazy if they don't change their immigration policies. At the very least, immigrants should have to go through some kind of class. Something like, "Look, we're a secular society and we have freedom of the press, gay people, women in halter tops and nude beaches. If you don't like it, stay where you are."

And if you're fat, stay off our nude beaches.

 

[Cobblestones]

You know... it is the 21st century. there are nations who have placed men on the moon, have sent crafts to Mars, and to orbit Venus and beyond. nations around the planet work relentlessly to scientifically and technologically advance.

You left out eradicating polio and smallpox, finding treatments for mental illnesses, etc. At least we are studying how to cure cancer and other major diseases. What are the friggin' IslamiNations doing to improve the human condition?

 

[LittleNipper]

The notion of GOD was also used to defend slavery.

[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts - Jefferson Davis, President, Confederate States of America

Every hope of the existence of church and state, and of civilization itself, hangs upon our arduous effort to defeat the doctrine of Negro suffrage - Robert Dabney, a prominent 19th century Southern Presbyterian Pastor

... the right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example - Richard Furman, President, South Carolina Baptist Convention

Your assertion that Christianity alone brought about the end of slavery is as absurd as blaming Christianity alone for the institution of slavery.

Yes, and "Christianity" was applied to kill Jews. But no one would suggest anyone who calls himself an "christian" is either a "christian" or represents "Christianity" fully or correctly.

 

[LittleNipper]

Did you ever read any of her writings? Her target audience was not Southerners but Yankee Christians who although they claimed to oppose slavery yet shunned those free black people who lived among them. Indeed, if "Christianity" was responsible for the abolition of slavery then she would never had needed to write what she did.

She didn't start anything and the Civil War was not about slavery anyhow, not at first anyways.

Christianity thrives when people are superstitious. Period. It has always been reactionary to scientific discovery and enlightenment. It is because of the Enlightenment and the rise of Humanism that slavery came to be seen as a moral issue. Christianity lived quite comfortably with the idea of slavery for well over 1500 years. I don't see how you can make a claim that it was Christianity that put an end to it.

And how many years did atheists live with the notion of slavery and not consider morality in the least..?

 

[Malleus_de_Philosophia]

Im going to quickly answer this then move on, our friends are right getting
of the topic, and im sorry, i can give you many lengthy evidence from Qur'an,
and the prophets traditions, and the companions, and scholars, to show you
this is not taking it out of text, you just point me to another thread, and let me show you.

Whether this wisdom of Qur'an is understood or not depends on the
state of being of the reader.

The Qur'an is a book, a very, very, very old book that's highly recognized and studied. That doesn't alter the fact that it's a book and the passages that you gave were quotes from that book. It doesn't matter how many scholars and prophets have analyzed or spoken from it, it's still a book. It's a holy book but a book nonetheless. Let me give you an example. The book by Darwin called Origin of Species (which you're unfamiliar with) is a book, a very well-known and well-studied book. However, it's a book still.

This is true for every book, newspaper, interview, etc... . It's nothing profound so I don't know why you're trying to make it seem like it is.

However, as redudant as your statement may be, it's also somewhat useless in the sense that as much as one can understand the Qur'an and for that matter any other Holy Book, there's a gradient between that stuff and the modern world. This gradient I mention has some evidence to it and that is evidence is your previous statements regarding TOE.

That as well as would muslims openly admit that they dislike England, i mean come on. Would you move to another country and then openly tell a surveyor that you hate the country, its laws, and its language?

After the 9/11 attack, Muslims were treated very differently, specifically they were treated very negatively. Surveys went out to Muslims in particular to assess just how discriminated they felt and any hatred they developed for the place they lived in, in this case it was all of Canada being surveyed. The results are what you already described, hatred or at least dislike for the country, the people, the laws (i.e. laws prohibited such discrimination yet there was/is a double-standard for Muslims), etc... . I know this discussion is regarding Europe, however, if this happens in Canada, then it's just as likely to happen in Europe.

Regarding the overall topic, I don't think Europe should completely resist all Islamic people. I'm not familiar with the immigration policies in Europe but for immigration to Canada, there's a points system but I assume Europe has the same. I think that the individuals who profess devout Islamic beliefs and reject the European ones at the time of immigration should have demerits on this points system. I don't think that Europe should become so resistent to a point where it won't accept anyone who is Islamic.

 

[tumbleweed41]

And how many years did atheists live with the notion of slavery and not consider morality in the least..?

Well,
Since slavery has been around for well over 2,500 years. And since the majority of slave owners in those years were monotheistic, polytheistic, and generally believers in one supernatural faith or the other, your question on atheists constitutes only a small percentage of slave owners.
If we were to back to ancient slavery in Greece and Macedonia, Epicurus, the founder of modern scientific method, and an atheist, was know to include anyone in his 'Garden' for learning. He was among the first to include women, slaves, and lower class Greek Citizens in his school.
His Humanist/Atheist train of thought was all-inclusive, where no man was better than the next.
He passed this all-inclusiveness on to his students. For instance, Cicero (Marcus), in a letter to his brother Quintus, who was at that time governor of the province of Asia, reports the incident of a slave named Licinus, who had escaped from his Roman master Aesop, then fled to Athens, where "he stayed with Patro the Epicurean for several months, as if he were a free man".

 

[Sajdah]

You know... it is the 21st century. there are nations who have placed men on the moon, have sent crafts to Mars, and to orbit Venus and beyond. nations around the planet work relentlessly to scientifically and technologically advance. and yet you talk to us about evidence from a 7th century Arab scripture and about an Arab moon God. the state of being of the readers, as you say. is healthy.we are more interested in latest discoveries in the field of biological evolution and space exploration than in 7th century Arab mythology.
When will Saudi Arabia, the land of Hijaz develop a decent space program instead of enforcing Sharia?
You talk to us about the Qur'an and the truth of your religion, while American and British forces are roaming the streets of Baghdad.. once the center of the Abbasid Empire.

Why don't you want to stop your propaganda and lies about Islam?! And what does the holy qur'an have to do with some criminals roaming the streets of Baghdad, or Haifa?!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And how many years did atheists live with the notion of slavery and not consider morality in the least..?

:clap Excellent.

 

[LittleNipper]

Why don't you want to stop your propaganda and lies about Islam?! And what does the holy qur'an have to do with some criminals roaming the streets of Baghdad, or Haifa?!

What does Islam have to do with women wearing heavy vails and men wearing none? Maybe we chould start there...

 

[Humanistheart]

Is this thread still about europe and weather or not they should resist islam?

 

[England my lionheart]

I was very impressed with the poll until i looked at the methodology, they interviewed over the phone 1000 people and interviewed 500 people face to face , there are around 2 million Muslims in the UK and thy have interviewed face to face 500? how do you come to such sweeping conclusions as they do with such a small sample? and dont forget to allow the 5% error

And of course the other thing to consider is the poll was run by the Muslim Council of Britain,in reality i very much doubt it is representative of the majority of Muslims but from little Acorns who knows.
I would like to believe there are some Muslims who are loyal and there must be as no matter how many times Jihad has been called very few have answered but i still think they are more loyal to the Ummah which can be seen by the Council of British Muslims support for Palestine and from what i've seen on Islamonline i have to say i'm not at all convinced of their loyalty to this Country.

 

[Humanistheart]

I'd like to ask, if it's not too much of a departure from the OP, why shouldn't europe resist islam?

 

[Caladan]

Why don't you want to stop your propaganda and lies about Islam?! And what does the holy qur'an have to do with some criminals roaming the streets of Baghdad, or Haifa?!

Why cant you take any criticism without breaking down?