Should ex-Muslims be killed for renouncing their religion?

[Nakosis]

I don't feel people should be killed. The exception being it it is the only way to protect yourself or someone else. Even then there is nothing good about it. Or maybe if they are chronically suffering and it is the only way to end their suffering and it's what they want too.

It's very tragic taking life in any case. Otherwise I don't see the need in people killing each other.

 

[gsa]

I agree, but then you have to remember the climate in a lot of these places. If it's a place that's going to kill those who leave Islam, it's probably a place where Muslims aren't comfortable with speaking out against such things, as they value their lives.

Certainly possible. We know that the Kingdom of Horrors is an oppressive hellhole that doesn't permit any real freedom of expression, for sure. But Pakistan, for example, is a different case, where there is opposition to blasphemy laws. Yet a 2010 poll showed that 76% of Muslims in Pakistan supported the death penalty for apostasy. Even in Indonesia, which is quite free outside of Aceh, the numbers were 30% in support. It is interesting to compare the numbers from the 2013 polling on Sharia, because the only numbers provided there are among Muslims who believe that sharia should be the law of the land, which records an 18% support rate for the death penalty for apostasy.

It should also be noted that intimidation doesn't just come from the states that enforce apostasy laws. Reformers can be targeted by religious extremists, as is often the case in Pakistan, to cite one example.

Some might punish them because it insults Allah, but really I don't think Allah cares. An omnipotent, all knowing deity that's supposed to be beyond anger and hatred is not likely going to care if someone renounces Islam and even if he wanted the person to be punished, he doesn't need YOU to punish them. He's a god, why he want humans to do this for him when he is supposed to accomplish anything with a mere thought? If he wants people punished he'll do it himself, but he won't anyway because Allah is supposed to be beyond hatred and violence, though.

If he was to inflict judgment it will be due to people that actually do bad things, not renounce a religion.

While this has intuitive, rational appeal, that is not generally the way that the Abrahamic religions operate. God cares deeply about your mental state of belief.

 

[morphesium]

Not so much though. In a Pew Study, 64% of Egyptians were entirely in favor of the death penalty for apostasy. It rises to 78% in Afghanistan. The majority of self-identified Muslims in the Middle East are all in favor of killing people for abandoning Islam. This number falls to 5% when you go to Indonesia, so it seems to be a largely Middle Eastern thing.

Indonesia is increasingly adopting sharia law.

 

[Kirran]

Islam is religious Mafia. There is no getting out of it once you enter.

Depends very much on what stream of Islam.

 

[morphesium]

If anyone dares votes yes perhaps they could explain how that fits into "there is no compulsion in religion". Is it like you have a choice before you convert but afterwards all bets are off? Like joining the mafia or something?

Traditional understanding of the verse would say yes.

The traditional exegesis of verse means no one should be forced to accept Islam, however after accepting Islam you become subject to Islamic laws.

What the Islamic laws are regarding apostasy is open to debate; it becomes a point of jurisprudence.

In the traditional interpretation, you cross the Rubicon when you accept Islam though.

Yes, ISLAM is religious Mafia. There is no getting out of it once you enter.
it is the innocent who is victimized there.

 

[Kirran]

Yes, ISLAM is religious Mafia. There is no getting out of it once you enter.
it is the innocent who is victimized there.

Never mind the large numbers of ex-Muslims, numbering well into the millions.

 

[morphesium]

Depends very much on what stream of Islam.

I believe there is much corruption in ISLAM. They fund a lot of terrorist activities. In every country where there are Muslims, There are supporters of ISIS militants. ( I am not saying all muslims support ISIS militants - but some of them). 23% of the people in the world are muslims and they contribute to 95% of world terrorism. Thus present day "ISLAMIC preachings" makes a person 65 times more prone to be violent than average non-mulsims.

I am not saying it is just the non-Muslims who are suffering because of them , the common and innocent muslims who are suffering much more because of their religion - after all it is they who are victimized, it is they who are stoned to death, it is they who are being lashed. The reason why they keep such inhumane laws is to suppress any possible uprisings against them (against the real religious mafia dons). apart from these inhumane laws, they play psychologically, saying "even the god/prophet approved such punishments" which makes them not to go for a revolt. Perhaps ISLAM is much more sinister than MAFIA. Religion is a billion dollar business -(being unchecked) it is evil business.

 

[morphesium]

Never mind the large numbers of ex-Muslims, numbering well into the millions.

Yes, especially in those countries where Muslims are a minority.The threading post was concerned with a SA man who was given death sentence for the crime that he happened to understand his religion truly.

 

[Cephus]

Indonesia is increasingly adopting sharia law.

But they are still dramatically behind the Middle East, particularly these countries that are our "friends".

 

[Kirran]

Yes, especially in those countries where Muslims are a minority.The threading post was concerned with a SA man who was given death sentence for the crime that he happened to understand his religion truly.

I think it's absurd for a non-Muslim to dictate what constitutes true practice of Islam.

 

[Augustus]

Interesting (long) analysis of the 'no compulsion in religion' verse by Princeton academic Patricia Crone for anyone interested.

https://www.hs.ias.edu/files/Crone_Articles/Crone_la_ikraha.pdf

 

[Muffled]

Qur'an 2:256 in the house, yeah bwoi.

There is this one: Sura 88:23 But if any turn away and reject Allah, —
24 Allah will punish him with a mighty Punishment.
Of course it does not say that Saudi Arabia is Allah.

 

[morphesium]

I think it's absurd for a non-Muslim to dictate what constitutes true practice of Islam.

What do you think constitutes the true practice of Islam (or any other religion); following the rituals ?
If one studies any holy text, there will be a lot of controversies, scientifically stupid statements etc. So, asking about it; is it blasphemy?
- actually, there is nothing like a true practice -it varies from place to place and from time to time. it is just an assumption. Just take the example of a particular ceremony in your religion - i am sure there will be some difference in rituals from place to place. actually, I think it's even absurd for a Muslim to dictate what constitutes true practice of Islam. Ask a peace loving Muslim about isis and he would say " they are not practicing true Islam". Ask a violent ISIS muslim about those peaceful muslims and he too would say " they are not practicing true Islam".

moreover, do you think is more absurd?

a non-politician dictating what constitutes the true practice of a particular political party?
a politician dictating what constitutes "true practices" of his political party? I don't think this has any less absurdity than the above one.​

 

[morphesium]

But they are still dramatically behind the Middle East, particularly these countries that are our "friends".

Religion is something that divides humanity and it is not for the good. Are there Muslims in your country? If there are Muslims, then there would be madrassas or religious schools there. Are you sure those attending these madrassas are not brainwashed to have a deep and stubborn religious faith. Are you sure they are not nurturing future terrorists? (in all countries where there are mulsims and Islamic prachings exists – there is the presence of ISIS supporters or the like). Do you think that they are just some random and independent people with criminal mentality that supports isis (just like there are criminals in all nations)? No, it is all part of a much more sinister ploy. There is a huge chance that Indonesia will soon be very unfriendly to its fellow non-muslims.

 

[Kirran]

What do you think constitutes the true practice of Islam (or any other religion); following the rituals ?
If one studies any holy text, there will be a lot of controversies, scientifically stupid statements etc. So, asking about it; is it blasphemy?
- actually, there is nothing like a true practice -it varies from place to place and from time to time. it is just an assumption. Just take the example of a particular ceremony in your religion - i am sure there will be some difference in rituals from place to place. actually, I think it's even absurd for a Muslim to dictate what constitutes true practice of Islam. Ask a peace loving Muslim about isis and he would say " they are not practicing true Islam". Ask a violent ISIS muslim about those peaceful muslims and he too would say " they are not practicing true Islam".

No, there isn't one true practice, because interpretations vary. I agree.

moreover, do you think is more absurd?

a non-politician dictating what constitutes the true practice of a particular political party?
a politician dictating what constitutes "true practices" of his political party? I don't think this has any less absurdity than the above one.​

The latter is a little less absurd to me, but still not valid.

 

[morphesium]

No, there isn't one true practice, because interpretations vary. I agree.



The latter is a little less absurd to me, but still not valid.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

There is this one: Sura 88:23 But if any turn away and reject Allah, —
24 Allah will punish him with a mighty Punishment.
Of course it does not say that Saudi Arabia is Allah.

It also says there is no compulsion in the religion. So who really wrote the Quran? Several people must have, who all had their own agenda, otherwise there wouldn't be so many inconsistencies.

 

[Kirran]

It also says there is no compulsion in the religion. So who really wrote the Quran? Several people must have, who all had their own agenda, otherwise there wouldn't be so many inconsistencies.

I think it's saying that a human shouldn't compel people in religion - let God judge.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Yes, ISLAM is religious Mafia. There is no getting out of it once you enter.
it is the innocent who is victimized there.

Its a religion based on justice. This apostate deserves the death penalty.
His death will be clear warning to apostates that wants to follow his ''heroic'' path.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I think it's saying that a human shouldn't compel people in religion - let God judge.

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe?" [The Qur'an 10:99]

So it shows Allah has no desire to compel others and neither should anyone else.