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Should the oneness of humanity be taught in all schools worldwide

ppp

Well-Known Member
I am very sorry if my style of posting is not as perfect as you would like it to be. I try to listen to what others are trying to get across and learn from them. But I’m far from perfect. When I have dialogue with anyone I try and learn from what they understand, reflect on their agreement or disagreement and consult further on the topic. I reflect on each post and try and learn what the other person is saying. I believe we can all learn from each other. The main topic is always the thread but it’s easy to go off track. We all do it.
Who the hell cares about perfection? I don't. I care about improving.

So, here is what I think.

  • I think that you are Baha'i.
  • I think that you are very strong feelings about Baha'i messages being good and correct and a proper model for the future of humanity.
  • I think that you see the emotional appeal of oneness of humanity.
  • I think that you see the concept of oneness from the point of view of someone who is Baha'i.
  • I think that you have a strong interest in spreading what you see as a positive message for humanity.
  • I think that you find it hard to understand how
  • the message that you are spreading is seen as a negative by non-bahai.
Are any of those statements incorrect? Would you omit or rephrase any of them?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You asked why another member was not "coming down" on Catholicism llike they were on Baha'i in a discussion about Baha'i.
Why would you think that another member "coming down" on Catholicism in a discussion about Baha'i is appropriate?

Please try to give a straight forward answer and not a sermon.
This thread is not a discussion about Baha'i.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Who the hell cares about perfection? I don't. I care about improving.

So, here is what I think.

  • I think that you are Baha'i.
  • I think that you are very strong feelings about Baha'i messages being good and correct and a proper model for the future of humanity.
  • I think that you see the emotional appeal of oneness of humanity.
  • I think that you see the concept of oneness from the point of view of someone who is Baha'i.
  • I think that you have a strong interest in spreading what you see as a positive message for humanity.
  • I think that you find it hard to understand how
  • the message that you are spreading is seen as a negative by non-bahai.
Are any of those statements incorrect? Would you omit or rephrase any of them?
Far too simplistic so basically inaccurate and misleading. Take your point about ‘the emotional appeal of the oneness of humanity’. Quite wrong.

[Let there be no mistake. The principle of the Oneness of Mankind —the pivot round which all the teachings of Bahá'u 'Iláh revolve—is no mere outburst of ignorant emotionalism or an expression of vague and pious hope.

It implies an organic change in the structure of present-day society, a change such as the world has not yet experienced.

It calls for no less than the reconstruction and the demilitarization of the whole civilized world—a world organically unified in all the essential aspects of its life, its political machinery, its spiritual aspiration, its trade and finance, its script and language, and yet infinite in the diversity of the national characteristics of its federated units.

It has its indirect manifestations in the gradual diffusion of the spirit of world solidarity which is spontaneously arising out of the welter of a disorganized society."]


These topics go very, very deep. Many, many, layers to unpack. No person on this forum has anything but a very superficial idea about who we are or what we believe. They all couldn't really go much deeper than the points you made which makes it very difficult to have real discussion here as most are speaking from a vantage point of ignorance in that they haven’t delved deep into what Baha’i really is.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
What @F1fan brought in was the topic of homosexuality by complaining about the Baha'i Faith and homosexuality again.
Yes.
he brought up the topic of homosexuality.
You further went off topic by bringing Catholicism into the discussion in an attempt at defending Baha'i

That is why I brought in Catholicism, because it holds the same views on homosexuality.
yes,
You brought up Catholicism in defense of Baha'i
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
In speaking about the oneness of mankind being taught in all the schools of the world what is being implied here? There may be different versions of the oneness of humanity but as a Baha’i I am mainly familiar with the Baha’i concep.

In unpacking this subject I want to emphasise that the oneness of humanity does NOT mean the conversion of the world to the Baha’i Faith or that everyone become Baha’is. The Baha’i concept of the oneness of humanity is means every human being on earth. So the aim of the concept of the oneness of humanity is to break down barriers and prejudices and build bridges between people. A massive undertaking that requires all humanity to be involved.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Humanity currently is plagued with so many prejudices. We see some as racial, national and religious causing never ending wars. It seems that treaties and pacts cannot stem the tide of global conflicts and humanity seems lost as to how to solve this age old dilemma and finally establish lasting peace. But since there is no temporary solution what if there is a permanent one? However a slow fix not a quick one. There is I believe a way - through education or rather reeducation.

Let’s take religious prejudice as an example as it is the most powerful force in our world. Let me at the outset state that I believe that all the major religions are true and were revealed progressively to meet the spiritual and social needs of people at the time they were revealed. They all teach virtues and the golden rule. But over time religious leaders seeking power and control have desynchronised the religions which are all part of one unfolding process and turned them into opposing factions. “This is the changeless faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future” (Baha’u’llah) But now as a result of indoctrination, religionists reject the subsequent Teacher leading to a desynchronisation of the unfolding process of progressive revelation and evolutionary nature of religion and prejudices against the new faith.

However, now in this modern age most can investigate truth for themselves unlike past times when there was a need for clergy due to illiteracy and lack of literature, and verify that all religions are from the same source and are connected to each other not separate entities and equal, thus ending centuries of misinformation leading to prejudice, hatreds and wars.

This huge step requires courage. For us to step out of the comfort zone that only our religion is true. That all are sinners or infidels and that only our way leads to salvation. Instead, to be replaced with the mature notion that all of us belong to one human family and are of the same human DNA and that all these divisions were due to our immaturity. Otherwise it’s far better to do away with religion completely if it only causes bloodshed and war, division and prejudice. Isn’t this what is needed today to put aside our differences and put our common humanity first and teach the oneness and equality of all humankind in all the schools of the world? Would not this pave the way for a generation of well wishers of all? Although theoretically we could try and get rid of religion, eliminating racial and national prejudices would require reeducation towards oneness and equality.

So I believe all schools in the world from infancy should have included in their course the subject of the oneness and equality of all humanity and that we all belong to one human family there being NO superior race, religion, nationality or group of people. Thank you. If you agree please try and teach this concept in your school.
Can you teach the oneness of humanity without teaching oneness in access to the earth's resources?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
No, this thread is not about Baha'i at all....
I was replying to a post which stated that the oneness of mankind was a form of emotionalism which I explained is not about that at all. It involves many other complex issues. He was addressing me as a Baha’i so I answered accordingl.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Who the hell cares about perfection? I don't. I care about improving.

So, here is what I think.

  • I think that you are Baha'i.
  • I think that you are very strong feelings about Baha'i messages being good and correct and a proper model for the future of humanity.
  • I think that you see the emotional appeal of oneness of humanity.
  • I think that you see the concept of oneness from the point of view of someone who is Baha'i.
  • I think that you have a strong interest in spreading what you see as a positive message for humanity.
  • I think that you find it hard to understand how
  • the message that you are spreading is seen as a negative by non-bahai.
Are any of those statements incorrect? Would you omit or rephrase any of them?
Most people I believe are good but that doesn’t mean we don’t have superiority complexes. Many consider their race or nation or religion superior and this belief causes estrangement & prejudice which has led to wars and conflicts. For example Putin is killing fellow human beings but justifies it by dehumanising Ukrainians. Russians and Ukrainians are both one race, one people. Same in the Middle East. Dehumanising and demonising people is the cause of having no qualms about murdering and raping them. It is a very corrupt mindset. Humans everywhere must be protected from evil dictators. But there is none to help them because of imaginary barriers. While it’s an ‘us vs them’ mentality cruel dictators are free to commit atrocities against human beings while human beings watch worldwide doing nothing because it’s not their race, religion or nationality. So many innocent people are oppressed but ignored simply because they are not seen first as human beings but as members of this or that group. The oneness of humankind means every human being is valued, has human rights and the right to be protected by the international community. But the international community doesn’t protect the innocent because it doesn’t put humanity first but national agendas. How regrettable that the world can’t find common ground and rescue the innocent from oppression.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
It sounds good in theory, although I also think that if humans were willing and able to do this, they would have done so already. As for the schools, most of the schools in America at least teach basic principles such as equal rights and justice for all. However, when it comes to actually practicing those principles, our society invariably falls short of the ideal.

It would appear that "teaching it" is simply not enough to get the job done.

"Equality" is also a complicated subject. When discussed in the context of US politics, it often refers to "equality before the law," but not equality in all things. It's often said that "equal rights do not produce equal outcomes," and this has become a commonly-accepted axiom in the US political culture. My own interpretation of equality is within the framework of universal human rights, which isn't really taught to the same degree as the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, or Declaration of Independence.
Telling young people we are all equal, and then the students look around within their own country and then around the world, will not see things jive. Equal would seem to suggest that we are all clones but what we see will be variety. On the other hand, If equal is taught as meaning having the same rights and the same set of rules, with each person using that level playing field to the best of their ability, then things make more sense in terms of the talk and the walk. This accounts for differences but still seems fair.

The analogy is sports, where there are one set of rules in each sport, often with referees, who make sure there are equality in the rules for all. There is no preferential treatment or cheating for one class. After the level playing field is established, it is now about talent and hard work with some teams and individuals being better or worse than others. It allows for individuality which is what we will see. It connects rationality but offers hope of outcome.

It is when you add more than one set of rules, that a class system appears, and cheating is able to come before talent and hard work, resulting in loss of equity no matter how you look at it. Things like Affirmation Action and now the cheat clone called DEI, which simply renames affirmation action, to cheat the supreme court ruling; technicality, to reinstate two sets of rules, so inequity can form from all sides.

The sports metaphor is easy for children to understand and terms of both ways. If there are more one set of rules play becomes awkward and less spontaneous, since many become inhibited trying to be good by the bad rules; monarchy and peasants.

If you look at the American and world economy, one can see what happens with there were two sets of rules in the free market in the consumer sport called energy. Green energy got to cheat, while fossil fuel was given even harder rules to follow. Rather than have a free market that allows full expression of both companies; one set of rules for all, the Left added a second set of rules and everyone suffered with higher prices except the cheaters. In this case politics screwed up free market rules of equity for the consumers. But in the end, hard work and talent resulted in fossil fuel compensating and green energy with all its cheats not making it to the finish line; resting on the laurels of cheating as gas prices fell. Secular enforces the rules. Religions can only give guidelines in most countries. Secular power is usually the problem.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
It sounds good in theory, although I also think that if humans were willing and able to do this, they would have done so already. As for the schools, most of the schools in America at least teach basic principles such as equal rights and justice for all. However, when it comes to actually practicing those principles, our society invariably falls short of the ideal.

It would appear that "teaching it" is simply not enough to get the job done.

"Equality" is also a complicated subject. When discussed in the context of US politics, it often refers to "equality before the law," but not equality in all things. It's often said that "equal rights do not produce equal outcomes," and this has become a commonly-accepted axiom in the US political culture. My own interpretation of equality is within the framework of universal human rights, which isn't really taught to the same degree as the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, or Declaration of Independence.
By equal is meant equal rights as per universal declaration of human rights. I think a mechanism is needed to enforce basic rights because otherwise we see them abused as is now the case in many countries causing severe oppression to the populace. International law to protect human rights needs teeth and guts so dictators are not left free to ply their trade. Cases of severe human rights abuses even genocide end up being vetoed at the Security Council.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
By equal is meant equal rights as per universal declaration of human rights. I think a mechanism is needed to enforce basic rights because otherwise we see them abused as is now the case in many countries causing severe oppression to the populace. International law to protect human rights needs teeth and guts so dictators are not left free to ply their trade. Cases of severe human rights abuses even genocide end up being vetoed at the Security Council.

Some dictators are able to get away with it due to an analogous concept regarding equality among sovereign nations. The independence and sovereignty of nations are to be considered inviolate, meaning that no one can legally touch them or interfere in the internal affairs of their country.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The resources of the planet will have to equitably distributed amongst the nations but with care to the environment.
According to the saying, there's a first time for everything, but I won't hold my breath.

Humans are tribal. They think in terms of belonging to a group. I've always liked the motto of the World Chess Federation, Gens Una Sumus ─ we are one people. But we'll need more luck and smarts in future than we've managed in the past when we're dealing with people who've never heard of chess.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Who the hell cares about perfection? I don't. I care about improving.

So, here is what I think.

  • I think that you are Baha'i.
  • I think that you are very strong feelings about Baha'i messages being good and correct and a proper model for the future of humanity.
  • I think that you see the emotional appeal of oneness of humanity.
  • I think that you see the concept of oneness from the point of view of someone who is Baha'i.
  • I think that you have a strong interest in spreading what you see as a positive message for humanity.
  • I think that you find it hard to understand how
  • the message that you are spreading is seen as a negative by non-bahai.
Are any of those statements incorrect? Would you omit or rephrase any of them?
I thimk oneness really means everyone is
bahai.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
You say, "Yes, of course," then immediately start back in talking about you, and what you believe. What do I believe, @loverofhumanity? What parts of what you said do I agree with? What parts do I disagree with? And why? Have you paid any attention?

Or have you just dismissed me as immature and egotistic? Hell, maybe I am.

How about @F1fan? What parts of what you said do they agree with? What parts do they disagree with? And why?

@McBell? @Vinayaka?

Anyone?
Firstly, you should know that I've had some very long interactions on this forum with these guys over the years. You summed up why it's at first frustrating, and secondly, pointless, to enter a discussion with most Baha'i folk, as for them, it is all about Baha'i and literally nothing else. I've tried diverting the topic, and that often works with others, but not in this case. Best wishes.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Most people I believe are good but that doesn’t mean we don’t have superiority complexes. Many consider their race or nation or religion superior and this belief causes estrangement & prejudice which has led to wars and conflicts. For example Putin is killing fellow human beings but justifies it by dehumanising Ukrainians. Russians and Ukrainians are both one race, one people. Same in the Middle East. Dehumanising and demonising people is the cause of having no qualms about murdering and raping them. It is a very corrupt mindset. Humans everywhere must be protected from evil dictators. But there is none to help them because of imaginary barriers. While it’s an ‘us vs them’ mentality cruel dictators are free to commit atrocities against human beings while human beings watch worldwide doing nothing because it’s not their race, religion or nationality. So many innocent people are oppressed but ignored simply because they are not seen first as human beings but as members of this or that group. The oneness of humankind means every human being is valued, has human rights and the right to be protected by the international community. But the international community doesn’t protect the innocent because it doesn’t put humanity first but national agendas. How regrettable that the world can’t find common ground and rescue the innocent from oppression.
Are these things the rest of us are assumed
to have never noticed or thought about?
 

bahamut19

Member
If you have studied all the Ruhi books as I have then that is incorrect. Many, many passages speak about the oneness of mankind. Matter of fact the Covenant is all about the oneness of mankind. Ruhi Book 1 Unit one section two focuses entirely on the ‘oneneness of mankind’. Here is a quote.

In the very first section of the first Ruhi Book is stated:

"the pivot of the oneness of mankind is nothing else but the power of the Covenant."

The Covenant is all about the oneness of mankind. That is its aim and obj3ctive.

Let us begin by considering the concept of the oneness of humankind as expressed in the Bahá'i writings.

Acceptance of the Bahá'i teachings implies a firm belief in humanity's oneness. "The Tabernacle of Unity," Baháu'lláh proclaims, "has been raised; regard ye not one another as strangers... Of one tree are all ye the fruit and of one bough the leaves... The world is but one country and mankind its citizens... Let not a man glory in that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind?"

The principle of the Oneness of Mankind —the pivot round which all the teachings of Bahá'u 'Iláh revolve—is no mere outburst of ignorant emotionalism or an expression of vague and pious hope. Its appeal is not to be merely identified with a reawakening of the spirit of brotherhood and good will among men, nor does it aim solely at the fostering of harmonious cooperation among individual peoples and nations. Its implications are deeper, its claims greater than any which the Prophets of old were allowed to advance. Its message is applicable not only to the individual, but concerns itself primarily with the nature of those essential relationships that must bind all the states and nations as members of one human family.


"The principle of the Oneness of Mankind, as proclaimed by Bahá'u'lláh, carries with it no more and no less than a solemn assertion that attainment to this final stage in this stupendous evolution is not only necessary but inevitable, that its realization is fast approaching, and that nothing short of a power that is born of God can succeed in establishing it.

This is just in the two opening sections of the very first Ruhi Book with supporting quotes not to regard one another as strangers, that we are all as fruits of the same tree and we should glory in loving all mankind.

Ruhi beyond any doubt if you study any of the Books, focuses on the oneness of humanity and how to develop our characters to be at one with everyone.
So, it is safe to assume you started this post as a method to gain support or students of Ruhi courses. If I am wrong, what other coursework or education system would you recommend as an alternative to Ruhi? If I am right, how has your experience with Ruhi helped lead to the education of the oneness of mankind? How many non Bahais have attended Ruhi classes you have participated in? Of these non Bahais, how many have ended up teaching these courses to others? What projects or initiatives have been started which were directly inspired by the Ruhi courses you have participated in?
 
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