Should we fear Islam?

[darkendless]

hey AUTO why do you hate ISLAM SO MUCH ??

Thats a false assumption. I could produce as many concerns with practical Islam as her but i don't hate Islam.
I could produce 10x more about Christianity and i do not hate Christianity.

 

[aymen amir]

Suicide bombing, killing apostates, flogging rape victims, prohibiting girls from going to school, killing homosexuals, denying women the right to vote...those are just a few of the reasons that come to mind.

what did Islam do to you personally ??.. did ISLAM hurt you or cause you pain in any sort of way ?

MUSLIMS women in my country can vote , and they can go to school ... flogging rape victims is not part of Islam it may have been done by some Muslims ,

 

[Autodidact]

what did Islam do to you personally ??.. did ISLAM hurt you or cause you pain in any sort of way ?

Uh, no, fortunately I live in the U.S., where Muslims are not allowed to kill me for being an atheist lesbian. Does that make it right?

I should only be concerned with myself?

Well, I must say that fear of Muslim suicide bombers and airline hijackers has made travel much less convenient, killed thousands of Americans, and damaged our economy quite a lot.

 

[Autodidact]

what did Islam do to you personally ??.. did ISLAM hurt you or cause you pain in any sort of way ?

I see, so as long as they only kill other innocent people, flog other innocent victims, and kill other civilians, I shouldn't mind. Got you. btw, are you by chance Muslim?

 

[aymen amir]

I see, so as long as they only kill other innocent people, flog other innocent victims, and kill other civilians, I shouldn't mind. Got you. btw, are you by chance Muslim?

i didn't mean that i just feel that you have a special thing against Islam ?

what do you mean by chance MUSLIM?

 

[maro]

Thats a false assumption.

She answered the question without denying aymen's assumption . You speak on her behalf because...?!

 

[maro]

what do you mean by chance MUSLIM?

she means that she can't read the religion below your username :areyoucra

 

[Autodidact]

i didn't mean that i just feel that you have a special thing against Islam ?

Well, I have a thing against a religion that advocates killing innocent people, and people who kill other people in the name of their religion.

what do you mean by chance MUSLIM?

And adherent of the religion of Islam; what do you mean?

 

[darkendless]

She answered the question without denying aymen's assumption . You speak on her behalf because...?!

Its an assumption that everyone here who raises concerns hates Islam. Its a rasther annoying assumption made far too often.

 

[.lava]

Well, I don't know about Turkey, but apparently 78% of Pakistanis support death for apostates. 36% of younger British Muslims believe death to be an appropriate punishment for renouncing Islam.All major schools of Islamic jurisprudence stipulate that a sane adult male must be put to death for abandoning Islam, though varying interpretations persist on whether females should be killed or merely imprisoned. Many Islamic states outlaw apostasy and seven list it as a capital offense. However, freelancers such as angry relatives present the greatest danger to ex-Muslims, as Sunni and Shiite scholars largely agree that Shari'a empowers individuals to punish converts. This tradition has followed Muslims to the Western world. from here. In 2004 Prince Charles convened a conference of Muslim leaders. To his disappointment, the Islamic representatives failed to issue a declaration condemning the practice. The death penalty for apostates is also in the legal code in Iran, Sudan, Mauritania, and the Comoros Islands.

So I have to question your assertion that only a very little minority supports it. If this were true, why is this penalty being carried out, today, in so many Muslim countries.

btw, to the extent this is true, I think we can credit the fact that Turkey is secular, and not Islam. The countries where apostasy is a crime punishable by death are the most Islamic countries, such as Iran.

The more I think about it, the crazier I think it is we're even discussing it! What kind of religion has to have a controversy over whether it's O.K. to murder people?!?

I don't know what it can do. I only know what it does. What it does is to promote murder, and to carry out murder. I'd say the U.S.A. is doing well, yes. We don't flog victims of rape. We don't kill people for their religious beliefs. We don't kill people for being gay. I'll defend our record against any Muslim country. I see that the countries you hold up as positive examples are among the least religious, and least Muslim, countries on earth.

And that's why people like you are the only hope. The only thing non-Muslim countries can do is to keep Muslims out, and that's not really fair, is it, keeping out reasonable Muslims because violent fundamentalists have taken over Islam. You're right. It's hopeless. The only thing we can do is fight Islam with all our might. If actual Muslims won't fight for their religion to be humanized, the only thing we can do is resist it. How can you call killing someone for their beliefs, or flogging victims of rape, being a better person?
You keep saying this, but are Buddhists killing people for leaving buddhism? Are atheists killing people for becoming Christian? The only religion that kills people for leaving is Islam. How can Islam NOT be the problem?

OK. we've already talked about this before for a few times. i am not willing to say same things over and over again. i just tried to tell you the difference between "opposing injustice" and "opposing Islam". don't you say noone ever told you the difference, Autodidact. good, bad, peaceful, violent...etc all Muslims would perceive you as an enemy of Allah. this is your choice. this is sad. it is sad because you keep refusing to accept it. no Muslims, even if they stand against injustice, would not be on your side only because of this. instead of being welcomed by people as a person who wants justice for Muslims, you'd be kick out as an enemy of all of us. good luck with that. just don't blame Muslims for this because this is absolutely what you have chosen (i mean you chose anti-Islam over humanity) since you are smart enough to understand what i am saying.

no need to reply this. there is nothing for you beyond where i stand and we have nowhere to go further together

.

 

[.lava]

Its an assumption that everyone here who raises concerns hates Islam. Its a rasther annoying assumption made far too often.

you don't need to worry. it is Autodidact who says it openly. as a Muslim i share -at least- some of your concerns. nothing wrong with that. noone should be surprised if a human being is humane

.

 

[Snowber]

I think we will be underestimating just how far the length of religious passions, the beliefs of people and fanaticism would take them. also I believe many terrorists do not simply engage in terrorism to supposedly receive virgins. you question their understanding of the Qur'an, but on the other hand they question yours, one thing is for sure they have a strong interpretation of the Qur'an which takes the perpetrators of terror acts a long way. me? I cannot simply dismiss them as 'unbelievers'. to me they are some of the strongest believers on the face of the earth. .

Strongest believers on the face of the earth? Of course my friend, ignorance + desperation may lead to anything. I'm sure they wont accept my interpretation of the Qu'ran, but if you are not agreeing with it personally please show me why their interpretation is the truth and then we can focus on that matter specifically.

they also represent a religious stream, and a religious interpretation that we cannot swip under the rug because it damages the ideology of a 'religion of peace'

Of course, instead we should fight their reasoning with true knowledge of the Scripture.

 

[gnostic]

Of course, instead we should fight their reasoning with true knowledge of the Scripture.

Would that work, snowber?

I think that some are too set in their way, and won't accept your interpretations anymore than they won't accept non-Muslim interpretations.

Can they be reason with?

 

[Snowber]

Would that work, snowber?

I think that some are too set in their way, and won't accept your interpretations anymore than they won't accept non-Muslim interpretations.

Can they be reason with?

Maybe not certain individuals personally but to inform others of the true meaning of Islam is a pretty big weapon (better than AK-47's) when it comes to disarming these types of "fanatics"

 

[Autodidact]

OK. we've already talked about this before for a few times. i am not willing to say same things over and over again. i just tried to tell you the difference between "opposing injustice" and "opposing Islam". don't you say noone ever told you the difference, Autodidact. good, bad, peaceful, violent...etc all Muslims would perceive you as an enemy of Allah. this is your choice. this is sad. it is sad because you keep refusing to accept it. no Muslims, even if they stand against injustice, would not be on your side only because of this. instead of being welcomed by people as a person who wants justice for Muslims, you'd be kick out as an enemy of all of us. good luck with that. just don't blame Muslims for this because this is absolutely what you have chosen (i mean you chose anti-Islam over humanity) since you are smart enough to understand what i am saying.

no need to reply this. there is nothing for you beyond where i stand and we have nowhere to go further together

.

I get you. Railing against Islam will not help, because any Muslim, including the reasonable ones, are automatically going to reject that.

I will give that some thought.

Unfortunately, I don't know what will work. Do you?

 

[Autodidact]

Maybe not certain individuals personally but to inform others of the true meaning of Islam is a pretty big weapon (better than AK-47's) when it comes to disarming these types of "fanatics"

Is this working? Does anyone have any instances?

This does remind me of my interview with Daisy Kahn, who is one of the most brilliant women I've ever met. She talked about a program to have women educated as scholars, so that they would be able to speak with authority on these issues.

 

[Gharib]

A 16-year-old girl who was raped in Bangladesh has been given 101 lashes for conceiving during the assault.

The girl's father was also fined and warned the family would be branded outcasts from their village if he did not pay.

According to human rights activists, the girl, who was quickly married after the attack, was divorced weeks later after medical tests revealed she was pregnant.

The girl was raped by a 20-year-old villager in Brahmanbaria district in April last year.

Bangladesh's Daily Star newspaper reported that she was so ashamed following the attack that she did not lodge a complaint.

Her rape emerged after her pregnancy test and Muslim elders in the village issued a fatwa insisting that the girl be kept in isolation until her family agreed to corporal punishment.

Her rapist was pardoned by the elders. She told the newspaper the rapist had "spoiled" her life.

"I want justice," she said

Esalam i could write all day about this and get the "no true Scotsman excuse" blah blah,Islamism isn't Islam so i'm not having a dig at your religion,just at stoneage ignorance

i didn't ask for a case of a rape victim being punished, i asked for the islamic law that says to punish the rape victim. i can post such cases myself.

 

[challupa]

i didn't ask for a case of a rape victim being punished, i asked for the islamic law that says to punish the rape victim. i can post such cases myself.

Well then, if it isn't islamic law, why do the "cases" happen? Where are they getting justification for such an act?

 

[Gharib]

Suicide bombing, killing apostates, flogging rape victims, prohibiting girls from going to school, killing homosexuals, denying women the right to vote...those are just a few of the reasons that come to mind.

please post the islmaic law that says the rape victim must be "flogged"

which suicide bombing. the one where only soldiers who are armed are targeted with no civilian casualties or the suicide bombings where civilians are specifically targeted?

please post the islamic law that says girls must not go to school. i can post hadith contrary to this view.

palso please post the islamic law that says women are not allowed to vote.

now from our recent discussion i think i explained to you that Pakistan, saudi arabia, egypt, iran etc etc do not represent the islmaic nation that Muhammed (saws) once built. so don' post what the laws of saudi arabia, nor those of pakistan, nor those of iraq etc etc, but the actuall islamic law and a link to it also.

 

[Gharib]

Well then, if it isn't islamic law, why do the "cases" happen? Where are they getting justification for such an act?

things happen, thats life. todays arabs are the descendants of the sick pre-islamic arabs who had a sick culture and tradition. some arabs nowadays do not know the correct islamic laws so they turn to the most convenient solution, the culture of their forefathers. there is no justification for such an act. they just do it. but because they live in an "islamic country" they are automatically labeled muslim and anything they do is automatically labeled as what islam teaches therefore thats why they do it.