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Should we fear Islam?

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
i want to ask you a straightforward question Autodidact, are you seriously that dumb or are you pretending to be? i tend to think it is the former.

look don't insult me and my religion with false statements, i know you have a personal agenda against islam and i know you hate muslims your posts very clearly say that, but even though you do have a personal agenda, do not post false statements by attributing just about anything you can find, on islam and it's followers like me.

For the tenth time, it's not about me or my agenda. My claims are either true or false. If they're false, show us that.

I stand by what I said, and can only guess that you're not understanding me. I'll try to clarify.

I am making no NO no claims about what the qur'an says, what is truly Islamic, or who is or is not a Real Muslim. I am only making claims about what actual Muslims actually do in the actual world. When I refer to "Islam" OR "Muslims" I am not talking about the qur'an or the abstract, non-existent True Islam. I am talking about the religion as actually practiced by actual Muslims.

Which is problematic, to say the least.

Now you've called me a liar without substantiating your claim. I challenge you to find a false statement. If you can, I will be happy to retract and apologize. If you cannot, I will ask you to stop casting slurs on my good name.
 

Composer

Member
it is your truth that you share and i am already informed about what i would hear from others thanks to Qur'an
The problem you have is just like the other religions. Just because you and they ' claim ' their religious books are legitimately given by a God, what you are ALL lacking is legitimate evidence?

accusing people for things they haven't done, insulting their paths and refusing empathy is not actually caring for them.
The historical records against Islam and the trinitarian church prove that they both were founded upon atrocities.

so to speak, if you were "the king of the land", you would never let us practice our religion and that is part of your truth. because you only care fr what you believe and you only respect yourself and people alike.

A responsible King I suggest wants his subjects to live in Peace and ANY religion or wicked influences that practices violence and atrocities I would ban it and severley punish the perpetrators.

so we disagree. what are you planing to do about it?

Apart from trying to get you to provide legitimate evidence for your cause to see if it is legitimate or not is about the best solution I think?


i do believe Qur'an is word of God and i am willing to live according to it's laws and knowledge. i don't care if you percieve me as a lunatic or a devotee. i am just a mirror and i won't hold myself responsible of what you see in it. you are on your own like anyone else, friend.
And your alleged legitimate evidence that the Qu'ran is the literal word of a God is?
 
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Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
A responsible King I suggest wants his subjects to live in Peace and ANY religion or wicked influences that practices violence and atrocities I would ban it and severley punish the perpetrators.
So you're opposed to freedom of religion?
 

Ba'al

Active Member
. IF any one truly hated you we would leave you in your pit of Islamic delsuion and not try to assist you escape it.

I want you to escape and realise ALL religions are MAN MADE and ALL so called religious books are MAN MADE and devised by the dishonest hands of men, invariably for various evil reasons and purposes such as control and power for the corrupt men that used it in the past and use it now; for those wishing to keep that power & control over the gullible and maintain their privileged jobs and positions.

Your rantings on RF to "enlighten" believers are no different than a religious door knocker. Actually, I think I would rather listen to a JW.
 

Ba'al

Active Member
The problem you have is just like the other religions. Just because you and they ' claim ' their religious books are legitimately given by a God, what you are ALL lacking is legitimate evidence?

And your alleged legitimate evidence that the Qu'ran is the literal word of a God is?

Lava does not need to provide you with evidence for her belief. If you want evidence for the authenticity of the quran there are appropriate threads dedicated to it. This one debates "should we fear Islam?".
 

Composer

Member
Lava does not need to provide you with evidence for her belief. If you want evidence for the authenticity of the quran there are appropriate threads dedicated to it. This one debates "should we fear Islam?".
And I am legitimately contributing.

Legitimate evidence is always a fundamental requirement and I shall continue to ask for it and expose those who fail to even attempt to provide it for scrutiny.

Please pay proper attention and cease hijacking this Thread by bringing up diversions like you prefer to listen to J.w's!

You fail to keep the standards you hypocrytically demand of others.

Thanks for your time.
 

Ba'al

Active Member
Legitimate evidence is always a fundamental requirement and I shall continue to ask for it and expose those who fail to even attempt to provide it for scrutiny.

Legitimate evidence is fundamental for proving the appropriate matter. Evidence for the authenticity of the quran is irrelevant when trying to prove your point that "Islam should be feared."
 

Composer

Member
Legitimate evidence is fundamental for proving the appropriate matter. Evidence for the authenticity of the quran is irrelevant when trying to prove your point that "Islam should be feared."
I totally disagree on the grounds that the Islamic ideology is based upon the teachings (or alleged teachings) written in their story book Qu'ran.

IF it can not be established that the Qu'ran is legitimate then the teachings or practices we must be fearful of because they can only be of human invention.
 

Ba'al

Active Member
IF it can not be established that the Qu'ran is legitimate...

It would never be established in a single off-topic post. That is why there are huge threads dedicated to it. Besides, you wouldn't believe the quran was authentic if God hit you over the head with one so why even ask for the evidence?
 

Composer

Member
It would never be established in a single off-topic post. That is why there are huge threads dedicated to it. Besides, you wouldn't believe the quran was authentic if God hit you over the head with one so why even ask for the evidence?
Your empty speculation matches your empty ideology.


You appear to be so supportive of this Qu'ran and its murderous alleged prophet and god that supports these atrocities and wife bashing, so let's see why we shouldn't be fearful?


Here's some more examples from documented history of why we should be fearful -


Muhammad's Excessive Cruelty




Your turn?


I have much more Truth after your efforts if I find it necessary to post here!
 

Ba'al

Active Member
Sorry, but serious debaters on RF use real sources. Most people here know answering-islam is a christian anti-islamic website full of misinformation. Use legitimate sources please.
 

Snowber

Active Member

Your empty speculation matches your empty ideology.


You appear to be so supportive of this Qu'ran and its murderous alleged prophet and god that supports these atrocities and wife bashing, so let's see why we shouldn't be fearful?


Here's some more examples from documented history of why we should be fearful -


Muhammad's Excessive Cruelty




Your turn?


I have much more Truth after your efforts if I find it necessary to post here!

Hadith and Sunna will always be the only argument against "Islam". Fortunately, Islam is comprised of the Qu'ran, not Hadith and Sunnah as many of the claims are made refer to Hadith.

As for the rest of Answering-Islam's claims my friend, please see this 5 page rebuttal called "Answers to Answering-Islam"

Answers to "Answering-Islam"
 

.lava

Veteran Member
The problem you have is just like the other religions. Just because you and they ' claim ' their religious books are legitimately given by a God, what you are ALL lacking is legitimate evidence?

i also say that God is all-powerful and does not need lawyers. no human could provide you proof or evidence. only God can. so ask from God not from weak people like yourself.

The historical records against Islam and the trinitarian church prove that they both were founded upon atrocities.

historical records are biased and they give half of the story to manipulate people.

A responsible King I suggest wants his subjects to live in Peace and ANY religion or wicked influences that practices violence and atrocities I would ban it and severley punish the perpetrators.

i thought so. IMO those religious bigots who can not stand diversity in this world are just like you. you are a non-religious kind of the same mind set.


Apart from trying to get you to provide legitimate evidence for your cause to see if it is legitimate or not is about the best solution I think?

relationship with God has always been personal and private. or else, why would all of us have seperated free wills, seperated minds, seperated bodies? you are basicly asking me to make you digest what i eat. it is impossible to do that, Composer.


And your alleged legitimate evidence that the Qu'ran is the literal word of a God is?

me.

btw, is that why you think people should fear Islam?

.
 

.lava

Veteran Member
Legitimate evidence is always a fundamental requirement and I shall continue to ask for it

then it would be great if you just stop acting like a man who demands to get his passport from wal-mart. you and i are equal. i ask evidence from authority. because no human can provide it. ask evidence from authority itself. if you do it sincerely, no way you can't have it. but you would not be given much if you give orders with arrogance as if God is your servant and depend on you. we depend on him

.
 
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Composer

Member
Sorry, but serious debaters on RF use real sources. Most people here know answering-islam is a christian anti-islamic website full of misinformation. Use legitimate sources please.
answering_islam IS a real and legitimate source.

You don't want to acknowledge it because it refutes you.

Tough for you Muslems!

The Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire is a real and legitimate source that condemns Mahomet and you don't like it either.

Tough for you Muslems!

&

THE

LIFE OF MAHOMET.

VOLUME IV.

WITH INTRODUCTORY CHAPTERS ON THE ORIGINAL SOURCES
FOR THE BIOGRAPHY OF MAHOMET, AND ON THE
PRE-ISLAMITE HISTORY OF ARABIA

BY

WILLIAM MUIR, ESQ.,
Bengal Civil Service.
[Smith, Elder, & Co., London, 1861]

e.g. (aka The butcher of Medina) -

p307
Cruelty towards his enemiesBut the darker shades of character, as well as the brighter, must be depicted by a faithful historian. Magnanimity or moderation are nowhere discernible as features in the conduct of Mahomet towards such of his enemies as failed to tender a timely allegiance. Over the bodies of the Coreish who fell at Badr, he exulted with savage satisfaction; and several prisoners,-accused of no crime but that of scepticism and political opposition,-were deliberately executed at his command. The Prince of Kheibar, after being subjected to inhuman torture for the purpose of discovering the treasures of his tribe, was, with his cousin, put to death on the pretext of having treacherously concealed them: and his wife was led away captive to the tent of the conqueror. Sentence of exile was enforced by
page 308
Mahomet with rigorous severity on two whole Jewish tribes at Medina; and of a third, likewise his neighbours, the women and children were sold into distant captivity, while the men, amounting to several hundreds, were butchered in cold blood before his eyes.

Of course you are at liberty to present any factual and legitimate evidence for your cause to attempt to refute those truths?
 

Composer

Member
& these -


At Medina worldly motives mingle with his spiritual objects
But the scene altogether changes at Medina. There the acquisition of temporal power, aggrandisement, and self-glorification, mingled with the grand object of the Prophet's previous life; and they were sought after and attained by precisely the same instrumentality. Messages from heaven were freely brought forward to justify his political conduct, equally with his religious precepts. Battles were fought, wholesale executions inflicted, and territories annexed, under pretext of the Almighty's sanction. Nay, even baser actions were not only excused, but encouraged, by the pretended divine approval or command. A special license was produced, allowing Mahomet a double number of wives; the discreditable affair with Mary the Coptic slave was justified in a separate Sura; and the passion for the wife of his own adopted son and bosom friend, was the subject of an inspired message in which the Prophet's scruples were rebuked by God, a divorce permitted, and marriage with the object of his unhallowed desires enjoined! If we say that such page 319


revelations" were believed by Mahomet sincerely to bear the divine sanction, it can be but in it very modified and peculiar sense. He was not only responsible for that belief, but, in arriving at any such conviction, he must have done violence to his judgment and to the better principles of his nature.

Rapid moral declension: the natural consequences
As the necessary result of this moral obliquity, we trace from the period of Mahomet's arrival at Medina a marked and rapid declension in the system he inculcated. Intolerance quickly took the place of freedom; force, of persuasion. The spiritual weapons designed at first for higher objects were no sooner prostituted to the purposes of temporal authority, than temporal authority was employed to impart a fictitious weight and power to those spiritual weapons. The name of the Almighty, impiously borrowed, imparted a terrible strength to the sword of the State; and the sword of the State, in its turn, yielded a willing requital by destroying "the enemies of God," and sacrificing them at the shrine of a false religion. "Slay the unbelievers wheresoever ye find them;" was now the watchword of Islam "Fight in the ways of God until opposition be crushed and the Religion becometh the Lord's alone!" The warm and earnest devotion breathed by the Prophet and his followers at Mecca, soon became at Medina dull and vapid; it degenerated into a fierce fanaticism, or evaporated in a lifeless round of cold and formal ceremonies. The Jewish faith, page 320
whose pure fountains were freely accessible to Mahomet, as well as the less familiar system of Christianity, in spite of former protestations of faith and allegiance, were both cast aside without hesitation and without inquiry; for the course on which he had entered was too profitable and too enticing to permit the exercise of any such nice research or close questioning as (perhaps he unconsciously felt) might have opened his eyes to the truth, and forced him either to retrace his steps, or to unveil himself before his own conscience in the fearful form of an impostor. To what other conclusion can we come than that he was delivered over to the judicial blindness of a sell deceived heart; that, having voluntarily shut his eyes against the light, he was left miserably to grope in the darkness of his own choosing.

page 321

inculcated within the circle of the faith; orphans are to be protected, and slaves treated with consideration; intoxicating drinks are prohibited, and Mahometanism may boast of a degree of temperance unknown to any other creed.
outweighed by its evils
Yet these benefits have been purchased at a costly price. Setting aside considerations of minor import, three radical evils flow from the faith, in all ages and in every country, and must continue to flow so long as the Coran in the standard of belief. FIRST: Polygamy, Divorce, and Slavery, are maintained and perpetuated ;- striking as they do at the root of public morals, poisoning domestic life, and disorganizing society. SECOND: freedom of judgment in religion is crushed and annihilated. The sword is the inevitable penalty for the denial of Islam. Toleration is unknown. THIRD: a barrier has been interposed against the reception of Christianity. They labour under a miserable delusion who suppose that Mahometanism paves the way for a purer faith. No system could have been devised with more consummate skill for shutting out the nations over which it has sway, from the light of truth. Idolatrous Arabia (judging from the analogy of other nations) might have been aroused to spiritual life, and to the adoption of the faith of Jesus; Mahometan Arabia is, to the human eye, sealed against the benign influences of the Gospel. Many a flourishing land in Africa and in Asia which once rejoiced in the light and liberty of Christianity, is now overspread by page 322

gross darkness and a stubborn barbarism. It is as if their day of grace had come and gone, and there remained to them "no more sacrifice for sins." That a brighter day will yet dawn on these countries we may not doubt; but the history of the past and the condition of the present is not the less true and sad. The sword of Mahomet, and the Coran, are the most fatal enemies of Civilization, Liberty, and Truth, which the world has yet known.
Inconsistencies run through the character of MahometIn conclusion, I would warn the reader against seeking to portray in his mind a character in all of Mahomet, its parts consistent with itself as the character of Mahomet. The truth is that the strangest inconsistencies blended together according to the wont of human nature) throughout the life of the Prophet. The student of the history will trace for himself how the pure and lofty aspirations of Mahomet were first tinged, and then gradually debased by a half unconscious self-deception; and how in this process truth merged into falsehood, sincerity into guile, - these opposite principles often co-existing even as active agencies in his conduct. The reader will observe that simultaneously with the anxious desire to extinguish idolatry, and to promote religion and virtue in the world, there was nurtured by the Prophet in his own heart, a licentious self-indulgence; till in the end, assuming to be the favourite of Heaven, he justified himself by "revelations" from God in the most flagrant breaches of morality.

Indeed factual history of this monster Mahomet repeatedly warns us to fear the spread of Islam!

Your alleged evidence refuting legitimate history is?
 

Composer

Member
i also say that God is all-powerful and does not need lawyers. no human could provide you proof or evidence. only God can. so ask from God not from weak people like yourself.
Well I'm sufficently strong enough to bring religions crashing down.

All I needed to do and have done is ask little questions.

You and ALL religions are incapable of demonstrating your religious books are nothing more than man made fairy tales and vicious ones at that.

historical records are biased and they give half of the story to manipulate people.
IF we accept your hypothesis, then even a half of what is said condemns religions including Islam.

Of course you also need to PROVE the 50% you claim is ' biased? ' and your ' say so ' isn't sufficient.

Do you believe the following? -

Mahomet said this of himself: "O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." [Hadith vol. 1, No. 711].

In Sura 18:10, Allah tells Muhammed, "Say that I am but a man like yourselves."


#Mohammed the sinner
Mohammed the Sinner
file:///C:/scriptural_data/islam_quran/laijorad/muslim_hope/Origins of Islam.htm#f1While the Bible says Jesus was sinless, here is what the Qur’an and Bukhari Hadith say about Mohammed. In Sura 40:55 and 48:1-2 Allah tells Mohammed to ask forgiveness for his sin (or frailty.) Now people do not need forgiveness for physical frailties, but for moral ones. Sahih Muslim vol.1 book 4 ch.268 no.1695 p.373 says Mohammed prayed, "I wronged myself and make a confession of my sin. Forgive all my sins,…" Bukhari vol.1 book 2 ch.13 no.19 p.23, vol.1.12.57 no.781 p.434; vol.6 .60.3 no.3 p.4; vol.8.75.3 no.319 p.213, and vol.8.75.62 prior to no.407 p.271 prior also mention Mohammed’s sins. Specific things mentioned in the Bukhari vol.1.4.70 no.234 p.147-148; Bukhari vol.8.82.1 no.794,795 p.520 are amputating people’s arms and legs, burning out their eyes, and making them thirst as they died after their limbs were cut off. See Bukhari vol.8.82.3 no.796, ch.4 p.797; Bukhari vol.6 ch.150 prior to no.198 p.158-159, as well as Fiqh us-Sunnah vol.1 p.133. (Source: ' Origins of islam ' - MuslimHope.com)

i thought so. IMO those religious bigots who can not stand diversity in this world are just like you. you are a non-religious kind of the same mind set.
Diversity in itself is fine. Vicious and violent religions or activities of any kind under any banner is obviously ok for you, but not my kind of acceptable diversity.

relationship with God has always been personal and private. or else, why would all of us have seperated free wills, seperated minds, seperated bodies? you are basicly asking me to make you digest what i eat. it is impossible to do that, Composer.
You try to feed me ' words / Qu'ran ' based upon an ideology formed of evil by a self confessed evil man and sinner.

The trinitarian church tries the same and it also was founded upon evil -

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=56264



btw, is that why you think people should fear Islam?
The historical records, the writings taken from your so called religious texts (See: #Mohammed the sinner above) and the words of Mahomet admitting he was a sinner and the violence around us by those calling themselves Muslems and the unwillingness of Muslems to answer simple questions here like ' What sect of Islam today is the same one as Mahomet ' also remains unanswered?

We need to fear ALL religions that are prepared to harm others to persuade them against their will how much their ' God of Love ' has to offer and are prepared to kill you if you won't embrace its alleged ' love for you? '.

Can you truly not see the hypocrisy in that?


BTW: Are ' non-muslems ' considered less than dogs and only worthy of death? (Infidels)
 

.lava

Veteran Member
oh dear...you are a little ignorant of the subject. Mohammad SAW did not even attack people in his life time. anyways...you believe anything you want. but watch your mouth please. you don't have to accept Islam and share our opinions to show some respect to Muslims of this forum

.
 

Composer

Member
Hadith and Sunna will always be the only argument against "Islam". Fortunately, Islam is comprised of the Qu'ran, not Hadith and Sunnah as many of the claims are made refer to Hadith.
1. So everything is false except the Qu'ran?
2. The Qu'ran is false because you can't prove it is the legitimate word of a God?

So far you have zero evidence for your cause then!

As for the rest of Answering-Islam's claims my friend, please see this 5 page rebuttal called "Answers to Answering-Islam"
That just appears to compare the Qu'ran story book against the bible story book.

They are both just man made story books!

You still have NOTHING legitimate to offer!

Thanks for your time any how!
 
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