Should we fear Islam?

[Composer]

oh dear...you are a little ignorant of the subject. Mohammad SAW did not even attack people in his life time. anyways...you believe anything you want. but watch your mouth please. you don't have to accept Islam and share our opinions to show some respect to Muslims of this forum .

The factual and legitimate historical records prove Mahomet was an evil and hypocrytical man that ordered and condoned mass slaughter and debauchery and had special laws (dispensations) for himself allowing him to indulge at will what his subjects would have been severely punished for and worse.

My mouth is filled purely with Truth so show your respect for it and cease your dishonest objections. Objections of which you have NO legitimate evidence to support you, but quite to the contrary.

Bringing Truth as I do is most respectful and my Truth is non-violent, unlike Islam and the early trinitarian church.

Indeed they are ideologies amongst others to be greatly feared!

 

[.lava]

Well I'm sufficently strong enough to bring religions crashing down.

All I needed to do and have done is ask little questions.

You and ALL religions are incapable of demonstrating your religious books are nothing more than man made fairy tales and vicious ones at that.

i am trying hard not to mock you, friend.

let's agree on one thing, shall we? i am myself and you are yourself. you can't change me and i can't change you. do you agree?

IF we accept your hypothesis, then even a half of what is said condemns religions including Islam.

Of course you also need to PROVE the 50% you claim is ' biased? ' and your ' say so ' isn't sufficient.

i think all historical records are more or less biased. this is the conlusion i reach after talking to people from different nations. seems like each of us have a different version of same stories. so..

Do you believe the following? -

Mahomet said this of himself: "O Allah, set me apart from my sins..." [Hadith vol. 1, No. 711].

In Sura 18:10, Allah tells Muhammed, "Say that I am but a man like yourselves."

#Mohammed the sinner

Mohammed the Sinner​

While the Bible says Jesus was sinless, here is what the Qur’an and Bukhari Hadith say about Mohammed. In Sura 40:55 and 48:1-2 Allah tells Mohammed to ask forgiveness for his sin (or frailty.) Now people do not need forgiveness for physical frailties, but for moral ones. Sahih Muslim vol.1 book 4 ch.268 no.1695 p.373 says Mohammed prayed, "I wronged myself and make a confession of my sin. Forgive all my sins,…" Bukhari vol.1 book 2 ch.13 no.19 p.23, vol.1.12.57 no.781 p.434; vol.6 .60.3 no.3 p.4; vol.8.75.3 no.319 p.213, and vol.8.75.62 prior to no.407 p.271 prior also mention Mohammed’s sins. Specific things mentioned in the Bukhari vol.1.4.70 no.234 p.147-148; Bukhari vol.8.82.1 no.794,795 p.520 are amputating people’s arms and legs, burning out their eyes, and making them thirst as they died after their limbs were cut off. See Bukhari vol.8.82.3 no.796, ch.4 p.797; Bukhari vol.6 ch.150 prior to no.198 p.158-159, as well as Fiqh us-Sunnah vol.1 p.133. (Source: ' Origins of islam ' - MuslimHope.com)​

i don't know that hadith. though i can say it is only God who's perfect. perfect human being would still remain imperfect before perfection of his creator.​

Diversity in itself is fine. Vicious and violent religions or activities of any kind under any banner is obviously ok for you, but not my kind of acceptable diversity.

crime is not owned by religious. crime could be committed by anyone who follows his ego. everyone has ego, religious non-religious make no difference.

You try to feed me ' words / Qu'ran ' based upon an ideology formed of evil by a self confessed evil man and sinner.

i invite you to show respect, please

The trinitarian church tries the same and it also was founded upon evil -

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=56264

The historical records, the writings taken from your so called religious texts (See: #Mohammed the sinner above) and the words of Mahomet admitting he was a sinner and the violence around us by those calling themselves Muslems and the unwillingness of Muslems to answer simple questions here like ' What sect of Islam today is the same one as Mahomet ' also remains unanswered?

We need to fear ALL religions that are prepared to harm others to persuade them against their will how much their ' God of Love ' has to offer and are prepared to kill you if you won't embrace its alleged ' love for you? '.

Can you truly not see the hypocrisy in that?


BTW: Are ' non-muslems ' considered less than dogs and only worthy of death? (Infidels)

Infidel does not mean non-Muslim and seriously, there is nothing wrong with dogs and i like them.

ps: We need to fear ALL Composers that are prepared to harm others to persuade them against their will how much their ' God of Hate ' has to offer and are prepared to kill you if you won't embrace its alleged ' hate for you? '

.

 

[.lava]

The factual and legitimate historical records prove Mahomet was an evil and hypocrytical man that ordered and condoned mass slaughter and debauchery and had special laws (dispensations) for himself allowing him to indulge at will what his subjects would have been severely punished for and worse.

My mouth is filled purely with Truth so show your respect for it and cease your dishonest objections. Objections of which you have NO legitimate evidence to support you, but quite to the contrary.

Bringing Truth as I do is most respectful and my Truth is non-violent, unlike Islam and the early trinitarian church.

Indeed they are ideologies amongst others to be greatly feared!

dear friend, i would understand if you oppose violence and if you have no tolerance for oppressive and cruel men. i feel the same. but you are assuming this is what Islam turns people into. Islam would not turn a man into a crazy murderer unless he already has desire to take lives. i hope you stop generalizing. by this kind of approach you might be going against forum rules. therefor i invite you to respect beliefs of others. because there are Muslims here and you are not just saying you don't believe in what we believe

.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

There are two types of forgivness:
1) Oh God forigve me for my sins
2) If you"re a prophet and God has already forgave you for any mistake you would make, then you ask forgivness for not being thankful enough.

Theres a hadith ( its very difficult to me to find them in english) where the prophet peace be upon him spent hours in his prayer and cried a lot. When he finished, he was asked why do you do all this while God has already forgave you, he said ; " shouldnt I be a thankful slave? "

Thats what seeking forgivness is all about.

 

[.lava]

There are two types of forgivness:
1) Oh God forigve me for my sins
2) If you"re a prophet and God has already forgave you for any mistake you would make, then you ask forgivness for not being thankful enough.

Theres a hadith ( its very difficult to me to find them in english) where the prophet peace be upon him spent hours in his prayer and cried a lot. When he finished, he was asked why do you do all this while God has already forgave you, he said ; " shouldnt I be a thankful slave? "

Thats what seeking forgivness is all about.

that is so beautiful and meaningful, Fatima i am glad you shared it

.

 

[aymen amir]

There are two types of forgivness:
1) Oh God forigve me for my sins
2) If you"re a prophet and God has already forgave you for any mistake you would make, then you ask forgivness for not being thankful enough.

Theres a hadith ( its very difficult to me to find them in english) where the prophet peace be upon him spent hours in his prayer and cried a lot. When he finished, he was asked why do you do all this while God has already forgave you, he said ; " shouldnt I be a thankful slave? "

Thats what seeking forgivness is all about.

yeah i know this hadith,i heard it from a lot of scholars

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The OP cites a book by an Islamic scholar which claims that there is a conflict in Islam, between "moderates" and "extremists". Then the OP asks if we should fear Islam. I'm not sure that this is the right question.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

What the right question should have been?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I don't know.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

May be the OP can start by defining what he means by modernists, as well as extremists?

 

[Composer]

Muslems or trinitarians can attempt to dismiss historical records as ' biased ' all you wish. However what remains lacking is ' proof ' that this is the case or proof that historical records have been manipulated etc. etc.

So far you have presented nothing but your empty biased opinions.

Legitimate evidence is so far only against you.

Islam & trinitarianism remain ideologies to be feared until such time as your present legitimate evidence rewriting the historical, physical evidence against you?

Here's your homework for now and plenty more to come -

Legitimately refute the following -
THE

LIFE OF MAHOMET.

VOLUME IV.

WITH INTRODUCTORY CHAPTERS ON THE ORIGINAL SOURCES
FOR THE BIOGRAPHY OF MAHOMET, AND ON THE
PRE-ISLAMITE HISTORY OF ARABIA

BY

WILLIAM MUIR, ESQ.,
Bengal Civil Service.
[Smith, Elder, & Co., London, 1861]

(Source: http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Muir/Life4/index.htm)

&

Muhammad's Excessive Cruelty

(Source: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/cruelty.htm)​

&

MAHOMET'S FLIGHT FROM MECCA TO MEDINA

(p. 673) - The first and most arduous conquests of Mahomet were those of his wife, his servant, his pupil, and his friend; since he presented himself as a prophet to those who were most conversant with his infirmities as a man.

(p.674) - . . . "Friends and kinsmen," said Mahomet to the assembly, "I offer you, and I alone can offer, the most precious of gifts, the treasures of this world and of the world to come. God has commanded me to call you to his service. Whom among you will support my burden? Who among you will be my companion and my vizar?"

No answer was returned, till the silence of astonishment, and doubt, and contempt was at length broken by the impatient courage of Ali, a youth in the fourteenth year of his age. "Oh prophet, I am the man: whosoever rises against thee, I will dash out his teeth, tear out his eyes, break his legs, rip up his belly. Oh prophet, I will be thy vizar over them." Mahomet accepted his offer with transport, and Abu Taleb was ironically exhorted to respect the superior dignity of his son. (Extract from Gibbon's - "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" D M LOW - A one-volume abridgement, pp. 673-674) -

MAHOMET DECLARES WAR AGAINST THE INFIDEL

From all sides the roving Arabs were allured to the standard of religion and plunder: the apostle sanctified the licence of embracing the female captives as their wives or concubines; and the enjoyment of wealth and beauty was a feeble type of the joys of paradise prepared for the valiant martyrs of the faith. "The sword," says Mahomet, "is the key of heaven and of hell: a drop of blood shed in the cause of God, a night spent in arms, is of more avail than two months of fasting or prayer: whosoever falls in battle, his sins are forgiven: at the day of judgment his wounds shall be resplendent as vermilion, and odoriferous as musk; and the loss of his limbs shall be supplied by the wings of angels and cherubim." (Extract from Gibbon's - "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" D M LOW - A one-volume abridgement, p. 679) -

THE CHARACTER AND PRIVATE LIFE OF MAHOMET

. . . The use of fraud and perfidy, of cruelty and injustice, were often subservient to the propagation of the faith; and Mahomet commanded or approved the assassination of the Jews and idolaters who had escaped from the field of battle. By the repetition of such acts the character of Mahomet must have been gradually stained; and the influence of such pernicious habits would be poorly compensated by the practice of the personal and social virtues which are necessary to maintain the reputation of a prophet among his secretaries and friends. Of his last years ambition was the ruling passion; and a politician will suspect that he secretly smiled (the victorious imposter!) at the enthusiasm of his youth, and the credulity of his proselytes.1 A philosopher will observe that their credulity and his success would tend more strongly to fortify the assurance of his divine mission, that his interest and religion were inseparably connected, and that his conscience would be soothed by the persuasion that he alone was absolved by the Deity from the obligation of positive and moral laws. (Extract from Gibbon's - "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" D M LOW - A one-volume abridgement, p. 690) -

Mahomet breaks his own Laws -

Perfumes and women were the two sensual enjoyments which his nature required, and his religion did not forbid; and Mahomet affirmed that the fervour of his devotion was increased by these innocent pleasures. The heat of the climate enflames the blood of the Arabs, and their libidinous complexion has been noticed by the writers of antiquity.

Their incontinence was regulated by the civil and religious laws of the Koran: their incestuous alliances were blamed: the boundless licence of polygamy was reduced to four legitimate wives or concubines; their rights of both bed and of dowry were equitably determined; the freedom of divorce was discouraged; adultery was condemned as a capital offence; and fornication, in either sex, was punished with an hundred stripes. Such were the calm and rational precepts of this legislator; but in his private conduct Mahomet indulged the appetites of a man, and abused the claims of a prophet. A special revelation dispensed him from the laws which he had imposed on his nation; the female sex, without reserve, was abandoned to his desires; and this singular prerogative excited the envy rather than the scandal, the veneration rather than the envy, of the devout Musulmans. (Extract from Gibbon's - "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" D M LOW - A one-volume abridgement, p. 691) -

INFLUENCE OF MAHOMET

Mahomet was instructed to preach and to fight; and the union of these opposite qualities, while it enhanced his merit, contributed to his success: the operation of force and persuasion, of enthusiasm and fear, continually acted on each other, till every barrier yielded to their irresistible power. His voice invited the Arabs to freedom and victory, to arms and rapine, to the indulgence of their darling passions in this world and the other: the restraints which he imposed were requisite to establish the credit of the prophet, and to exercise the obedience of the people; and the only objection to his success was his rational creed of the unity and perfections of God. (Extract from Gibbon's - "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" D M LOW - A one-volume abridgement, p. 693)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


vizier n. hist. high official in some Muslim countries. [ultimately from Arabic] (Pocket Oxford Dictionary)
- - - -


perfidy n. breach of faith; treachery.  perfidious adj. [Latin perfidia from fides faith] (Pocket Oxford Dictionary)- - - -


pernicious adj. very harmful or destructive; deadly. [Latin pernicies ruin] (Pocket Oxford Dictionary)

- - - -


1 - In some passages of his voluminous writings, Voltaire compares the prophet, in his old age, to a fakir "qui détache la chaîne de son cou pour en donner sur les oreilles à ses confrères."


fakir n. Muslim or (rarely) Hindu religious beggar or ascetic. [Arabic, = poor man] (Pocket Oxford Dictionary)

ascetic —adj. severely abstinent; self-denying. —n. ascetic, esp. religious, person.  asceticism n. [Greek askeo exercise] (Pocket Oxford Dictionary)
- - - -


libidinous adj. lustful. [Latin: related to *libido] (Pocket Oxford Dictionary)- - - -


incontinent adj. 1 unable to control the bowels or bladder. 2 lacking self-restraint (esp. in sexual matters).  incontinence n. (Pocket Oxford Dictionary)- - - -


rapine n. rhet. plundering. [Latin: related to *rape1] (Pocket Oxford Dictionary)

 

[Ba'al]

Islam & trinitarianism remain ideologies to be feared until such time as your present legitimate evidence rewriting the historical, physical evidence against you?

Here's your homework for now and plenty more to come -

Composer, it is clear you have not done your homework and read:

The Islamic Calendars and Others- Understadning, calculating Ramadan, Hajj and other Islamic events-Hilal-Crescent-new-Calendar-dates-Prophet Muhammed, Mohammed-Islam (Submission)-Hadith and Sunna in Islam (Submission)- Ahadith-Sunnah-Quran, Qur'an,

Debating lies is a waste of our time. As for the "ideology of Islam" you will need to read the quran. Other Islamic texts are considered written by men so the only way you will be taken seriously here Composer is by quoting the quran in context as to what you think Islam teaches.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Im curious wether you ever opened a book of prophetic sayings, or some books with non-muslim authors who say the perfect opposite of what you're quoting? Or do you just like to read what you want ?

Also, I dont think that a writer who bring such sentences :

and a politician will suspect that he secretly smiled (the victorious imposter!) at the enthusiasm of his youth,

is worth being read, because this is everything but an objective writing, the hate in his heart is so obvious that it is not even worth to read.

 

[McBell]

Im curious wether you ever opened a book of prophetic sayings, or some books with non-muslim authors who say the perfect opposite of what you're quoting? Or do you just like to read what you want ?

Also, I dont think that a writer who bring such sentences :

is worth being read, because this is everything but an objective writing, the hate in his heart is so obvious that it is not even worth to read.

The fact that he defends answeringislam website as a "reliable" source speaks volumes towards his honestly wanting to know the truth.

 

[Autodidact]

Nope!

Just violent ones!

That's what I said, please pay attention!

No freedom to subscribe to any religion that's ever been violent, such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc.? Or just no freedom to advocate violence in the name of your religion?

 

[Autodidact]

I totally disagree on the grounds that the Islamic ideology is based upon the teachings (or alleged teachings) written in their story book Qu'ran.

IF it can not be established that the Qu'ran is legitimate then the teachings or practices we must be fearful of because they can only be of human invention.

Well that's a bit of a reach isn't it? We're not really discussing where they came from, but whether they're something to be feared.

 

[Autodidact]

Your empty speculation matches your empty ideology.


You appear to be so supportive of this Qu'ran and its murderous alleged prophet and god that supports these atrocities and wife bashing, so let's see why we shouldn't be fearful?


Here's some more examples from documented history of why we should be fearful -


Muhammad's Excessive Cruelty

(Source: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/cruelty.htm)

​

​

Your turn?


I have much more Truth after your efforts if I find it necessary to post here!​

A link is not an argument. If YOU have an argument, then it is up to YOU to make it, as well as to support it with legitimate sources. (as I frequently tell our religionist friends.)

 

[Autodidact]

Composer, I'm a militant atheist and I gotta tell you that you remind me of a proselytizing religionist. Try to focus and make a coherent argument, don't just rant and anti-proselytize.

 

[Composer]

Composer, it is clear you have not done your homework and read:

The Islamic Calendars and Others- Understadning, calculating Ramadan, Hajj and other Islamic events-Hilal-Crescent-new-Calendar-dates-Prophet Muhammed, Mohammed-Islam (Submission)-Hadith and Sunna in Islam (Submission)- Ahadith-Sunnah-Quran, Qur'an,

Muslems defending themselves isn't legitimate evidence but biased propaganda.

Debating lies is a waste of our time.

Then stop your lies.

As for the "ideology of Islam" you will need to read the quran.

It is just a story book of man made fantasy and propaganda and you and no one else can legitimately demonstrate otherwise.

Other Islamic texts are considered written by men so the only way you will be taken seriously here Composer is by quoting the quran in context as to what you think Islam teaches.

Context, ahh that old ambiguous phraeseology used to twist meanings to whatever mood takes your fancy as long as it suits your pre-conceived ideology!

Your whole ideology (in context) is based upon the claims that the Qu'ran isn't just a story book written by men and no one can prove otherwise. You have 0 of value for your cause.

Bible believers are in the same sunken boat as you!

 

[McBell]

Muslems defending themselves isn't legitimate evidence but biased propaganda.

Yet anti-Islamics attacking Muslims and Islam is not biased propaganda?

Are you really that big a hypocrite?