Should we fear Islam?

[sonofskeptish]

what version would that be exactly? how could using religion as your tool to commit crime, kill civilians (of course that's assuming he is the grand architect of 9/11) and manipulate people by abusing their hopeless situation as in Iraq make someone "religious" person in your opinion? IMO his name, Bin Laden, nothing but a trade mark after all.

For starters, he claims to be doing these things in the name of Islam, doesn't he? Why should I doubt him or his convictions? What's his hidden agenda? While I like your version MUCH better, what makes his version of Islam any less credible or authentic? Why is his version less valid?

 

[sonofskeptish]

ignorance, ignorance, please go away. (not you, but ingorance)

Sorry to jump in, but isn't this what she's talking about?

Is someone able to translate the banner for us?

 

[Gharib]

Apparently some Muslims believe Allah wants them to kill me because I am homosexual.

One odd thing about that is that the qur'an does not mention my sexuality at all, nevertheless the feel that it's Islamic to kill me. Doesn't sound safe to me.

Heck, in some Muslim countries, I could be given a hard time for going out in public without a head scarf, or without a man.

ignorance, ignorance, please go away. (not you, but ingorance)
can you please stop with these silly statements.

yes the laws of islam say to kill a homosexual (only the government has such authority only after certain citeria are met.). the quran does mentione homosexuality, it mentions how those people were destroyed for being homosexual.
the islamic dress code says women must wea a head scarf. but why feel bad about it, it would be against your will just like muslim women are told not to wear it in some countries. muslim women are allowed to go out in public without a male companion. that sentence is plain ignorance. state the hadith if you dissagree.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I heard from somebody that isn't actually gay teenagers, it's the media lying. I can't be sure either way, but like I said, they only punish gay people for open sexual acts in public, and they punish straight people for that too. Same thing. Sex is private in an Islamic society.

 

[Gharib]

I fear the crazies within all religions.

you mean withing every society? atheism isn't a religion, it too has 'crazies'.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Atheism has a lot of crazies who think god-believers have a mental disorder and need medication. That's what I call crazy.

 

[sonofskeptish]

I heard from somebody that isn't actually gay teenagers, it's the media lying. I can't be sure either way, but like I said, they only punish gay people for open sexual acts in public, and they punish straight people for that too. Same thing. Sex is private in an Islamic society.

We have close friends, Iranian friends, who immigrated to Canada a few years ago. They assure me that the killing of homosexuals is a reality, and that the media is not lying... and that those who claim this has not happened are the liars.

 

[Gharib]

Despite your Islam being peaceful, these people are as committed to their Islam... and willing to kill infidels and themselves to prove it.

It is a version of Islam, and claiming it is not a version (and evil version versus a peacful one) is ignoring the facts. If Bin Ladin were asked if he was a muslim, what would he say? How much less committed is he to his faith than you are to yours?

ignoring the facts, really?

the whole of islam and it's laws and teachings have been written down on paper. if you'd like to learn about islam, you will find it written down. not in some anti-islamic website, but in a website that has the correct teachings of islam. there are no 2 sides there is only one side, one islam. but because it is to your convenience there are 2 sides.

ask bin laden what islam says about killing innocents. you will see how commited he is to his faith.

 

[sonofskeptish]

Atheism has a lot of crazies who think god-believers have a mental disorder and need medication. That's what I call crazy.

Nice emotional outburst... what's your point?

 

[kai]

it is also basic Islamic principle not to kill civilians. besides, i don't see how 9/11 is self-defense

.

Ni you wouldn't Lava but he does,

He considers there to be a war against Muslims in Lebanon and Palestine so he as part of the ummah is entitled to attack Israel and the US as defending those Lebanese and Palestinians.Thats using the self defence argument.

His Fatwa

“The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it.”


however is clearly not justifiable in any Islamic sense that i can find.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well as I mentioned, straight people get punished too for open public acts in Islamic socities. Were the gay people executed commiting sex acts in public? I'm gay, so I'm in no way condoning this, I'm just saying, if you live in an Islamic society where you know what the law says about open sexual acts and you do it anyway, you broke the law knowingly.

 

[Gharib]

Is any muslim on RF willing to answer this question with a simple "Yes" or "No" answer...

Is Osama Bin Laden a muslim?

Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

muslims judge one another by actions, if his actions aren't in accordance to islam then he is not a muslim.

 

[sonofskeptish]

ignoring the facts, really?

the whole of islam and it's laws and teachings have been written down on paper. if you'd like to learn about islam, you will find it written down. not in some anti-islamic website, but in a website that has the correct teachings of islam. there are no 2 sides there is only one side, one islam. but because it is to your convenience there are 2 sides.

ask bin laden what islam says about killing innocents. you will see how commited he is to his faith.

Sorry, I don't read ancient arabic... your god felt I was not important enough to communicate with. In any case, my interpretation of Islam would be irrelevant... it's Bin Ladens interpretation that's relevant. Your version is not as big a threat and has less potential impact on me.

 

[kai]

muslims judge one another by actions, if his actions aren't in accordance to islam then he is not a muslim.

Isnt that for Allah to decide?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I don't know about that esalam. I've heard some schools of Islam be less strict and say that all is required of a Muslim is to profess Tawheed, practice the pillars, and affirm the prophethood of all prophets.

 

[sonofskeptish]

muslims judge one another by actions, if his actions aren't in accordance to islam then he is not a muslim.

As I expected... niether a Yes or a No. Regardless, he says his actions are in accordance with islam, and that he is a muslim. Nothing has shown me he is any less credible than any other muslim (although I'm thankful there are less of him and more of you).

 

[Gharib]

That is odd since some Muslim religious writings condone the physical abuse of homosexuals. In some Muslim countries, homosexuals are put to death.

looking at a house from 2 different sides and giving 2 different descriptions isn't a problem. one side may have a window the other might not, thats the difference.

 

[kai]

Well as I mentioned, straight people get punished too for open public acts in Islamic socities. Were the gay people executed commiting sex acts in public? I'm gay, so I'm in no way condoning this, I'm just saying, if you live in an Islamic society where you know what the law says about open sexual acts and you do it anyway, you broke the law knowingly.

Do you honestly think that homosexuals in Iran carry out homosexual acts in public? I doubt that very much and in True sharia you need 4 witnesses to such acts. Judge Iran by Iranian standards because they do.

 

[.lava]

For starters, he claims to be doing these things in the name of Islam, doesn't he? Why should I doubt him or his convictions? What's his hidden agenda? While I like your version MUCH better, what makes his version of Islam any less credible or authentic? Why is his version less valid?

that's what i mean when i say "using religion as a tool". here they say, if you want to understand reasons, check out the results. look at the results of his actions. did he really serve Islam? you tell me. what happened after 9/11? what happened to Iraq was serving Islam? why did not he be there with his fellow brothers to fight USA and gain great honor of Shahadat for instance?

his ways contradict Qur'an. Qur'an is what's valid if we are to talk about what Islam is. a Muslim who follow whole of the book as Qur'an commands can not say "All is fair in war"

.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well then Iran is going against the Koran, Kai. The Koran says not to judge anybody for sex inside the house, only if they do it publically, and there's four witnesses to verify. This doesn't surprise me, so-called Islamic countries do a lot of un-Islamic things.