Should we fear Islam?

[Gharib]

As I expected... niether a Yes or a No. Regardless, he says his actions are in accordance with islam, and that he is a muslim. Nothing has shown me he is any less credible than any other muslim (although I'm thankful there are less of him and more of you).

saying stuff and doing stuff are 2 different things, if his doings are not in accordance to islam then he is a non-muslim. a hypocrite. i believe he was praising the nigerian national who failed to blow up the chrismas day plane in the US. that there says he is not a muslim.

 

[Gharib]

I heard from somebody that isn't actually gay teenagers, it's the media lying. I can't be sure either way, but like I said, they only punish gay people for open sexual acts in public, and they punish straight people for that too. Same thing. Sex is private in an Islamic society.

yes sex is private in islam.

 

[FaRa13]

KAI you are viewing everything in tunnel vision. Your questioning a religion based on the acts of a small group of people. Was it not the USA that abused and murdered African Americans ? Was it not Germany that executed millions of Jews ? Can I question every catholic for what the pope has/will do in the future ? The answer to that is no. If Osama bin laden represented our religion, then Islam would not be the fastest growing religion in the world. Soon to surpas Christianity.

 

[Gharib]

Atheism has a lot of crazies who think god-believers have a mental disorder and need medication. That's what I call crazy.

you'll find crazies on all 4 corners of the wolrd

 

[FaRa13]

Well then Iran is going against the Koran, Kai. The Koran says not to judge anybody for sex inside the house, only if they do it publically, and there's four witnesses to verify. This doesn't surprise me, so-called Islamic countries do a lot of un-Islamic things.

As do all christian countries.

 

[sonofskeptish]

that's what i mean when i say "using religion as a tool". here they say, if you want to understand reasons, check out the results. look at the results of his actions. did he really serve Islam? you tell me. what happened after 9/11? what happened to Iraq was serving Islam? why did not he be there with his fellow brothers to fight USA and gain great honor of Shahadat for instance?

his ways contradict Qur'an. Qur'an is what's valid if we are to talk about what Islam is. a Muslim who follow whole of the book as Qur'an commands can not say "All is fair in war".

But my point is he doesn't think his ways contradict the teachings of Islam.

I don't know if they do or don't, and see it as your interpretation against his.

But I will state the obvious... he did a lot of harm to the perception of Islam by us infidels.

Irrelevant to who's version is correct or more valid though.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Hey FaRa, I'm not saying any different man. I'd argue the NT teaches Christians shouldn't even be involved in politics at all. Jesus taught that whoever has power should renounce it.

 

[Gharib]

Ni you wouldn't Lava but he does,

He considers there to be a war against Muslims in Lebanon and Palestine so he as part of the ummah is entitled to attack Israel and the US as defending those Lebanese and Palestinians.Thats using the self defence argument.

His Fatwa

“The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it.”


however is clearly not justifiable in any Islamic sense that i can find.

the only person this sick creep is allowed to fight and kill must be a military person and armed, you will not find any islamic law or teaching that justifies his delusional statements and actions. islamically speaking while pretending that he blew up the towers, he is not allowed to do that. islam condemns it.

 

[.lava]

Isnt that for Allah to decide?

yes, that's true. but we are decision makers, aren't we? we make decisions everyday. i chose my friends for instance, i chose to be close to some and stay away from others. because i have to use my intellect by analyzing people for what they do. that's one of the ways how i would protect myself from going astray. there are Muslims who trust and respect Bin Laden simply because they don't know Qur'an well enough or they don't know it at all. we are not left alone blind to wrong doers. i would not care if he is a Muslim or not. just a label that sounds familiar to me is not enough to follow him. but for some, ignorance made it possible to follow a wrong doer because he has a beard, he is an Arab, he is a Muslim...etc. he is simply doing wrong. that's what matters. the rest is between him and his Rab like everyone else, Muslim or non-Muslim, does not matter

.

 

[sonofskeptish]

If Osama bin laden represented our religion, then Islam would not be the fastest growing religion in the world. Soon to surpas Christianity.

So what is the cause of the current growth in Islam? What makes you sure it's not more radical versions which are adding to the numbers? Or pure breeding in less-developed 3rd world countries, the same countries with terrible human rights records? Where is Islam growing? What regions of the world? Lets look at the stats in detail... do you have a link to some numbers?

 

[kai]

KAI you are viewing everything in tunnel vision. Your questioning a religion based on the acts of a small group of people. Was it not the USA that abused and murdered African Americans ? Was it not Germany that executed millions of Jews ? Can I question every catholic for what the pope has/will do in the future ? The answer to that is no. If Osama bin laden represented our religion, then Islam would not be the fastest growing religion in the world. Soon to surpas Christianity.

You have lost me ? I do not think Bin Laden represents Islam i believe Bin Laden represents himself. I was however attempting to explain how bin laden justifies his violence within the framework of Islam. and did say that his fatwa on killing civilians was not Islamic.

and the credibility of a religion is not in how fast one can breed.

 

[FaRa13]

Hey FaRa, I'm not saying any different man. I'd argue the NT teaches Christians shouldn't even be involved in politics at all. Jesus taught that whoever has power should renounce it.

Yosef, your name, next to your religion caught my attention. Are you arabic ?

 

[kai]

yes, that's true. but we are decision makers, aren't we? we make decisions everyday. i chose my friends for instance, i chose to be close to some and stay away from others. because i have to use my intellect by analyzing people for what they do. that's one of the ways how i would protect myself from going astray. there are Muslims who trust and respect Bin Laden simply because they don't know Qur'an well enough or they don't know it at all. we are not left alone blind to wrong doers. i would not care if he is a Muslim or not. just a label that sounds familiar to me is not enough to follow him. but for some, ignorance made it possible to follow a wrong doer because he has a beard, he is an Arab, he is a Muslim...etc. he is simply doing wrong. that's what matters. the rest is between him and his Rab like everyone else, Muslim or non-Muslim, does not matter

.

great post and i agree with every word.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Nah, I'm not Arabic. I have Jewish parents man.

 

[Gharib]

Sorry, I don't read ancient arabic... your god felt I was not important enough to communicate with. In any case, my interpretation of Islam would be irrelevant... it's Bin Ladens interpretation that's relevant. Your version is not as big a threat and has less potential impact on me.

i don't read ancient arabic neither, i read english. my god is not limited only to those who speak/understand arabic. he understands all languages.

there is not 'your' or 'mine' or 'his' interpretation. there is one interpretation as i said earlier, only one islam. anyone who says differently to this islam is not a muslim and does not follow islam at all.

 

[Gharib]

Isnt that for Allah to decide?

no muslims are allowed to judge one another by actions. we can't call a muslim non-muslim if we "think" he is only pretending to be. that is for Allah to judge, he judges by intention and action, muslims (the people) judge one another based only on actions.

 

[sonofskeptish]

the only person this sick creep is allowed to fight and kill must be a military person and armed, you will not find any islamic law or teaching that justifies his delusional statements and actions. islamically speaking while pretending that he blew up the towers, he is not allowed to do that. islam condemns it.

From the link I provided earlier...

"Probably the most infamous part of Bin Laden's ideology is that civilians, including women and children, are legitimate targets of jihad.[26][27] Bin Laden is antisemitic, and has delivered warnings against alleged Jewish conspiracies: "These Jews are masters of usury and leaders in treachery. They will leave you nothing, either in this world or the next."

 

[FaRa13]

So what is the cause of the current growth in Islam? What makes you sure it's not more radical versions which are adding to the numbers? Or pure breeding in less-developed 3rd world countries, the same countries with terrible human rights records? Where is Islam growing? What regions of the world? Lets look at the stats in detail... do you have a link to some numbers?

This is an excuse my friend. Pure breeding in less developed countries ? What makes you think that all less developed countries have terrible human rights records ? Your right, western countries that are "moral" with their 30% std rates only count.

 

[kai]

no muslims are allowed to judge one another by actions.

we can't call a muslim non-muslim

if we "think" he is only pretending to be. that is for Allah to judge, he judges by intention and action, muslims (the people) judge one another based only on actions.

Thats what i meant

 

[Gharib]

I don't know about that esalam. I've heard some schools of Islam be less strict and say that all is required of a Muslim is to profess Tawheed, practice the pillars, and affirm the prophethood of all prophets.

yes that is correct, by professing tawheed one only enters the gate of islam from there on he must avoid cetrain things that lead out of islam even though one has made the declaration.

all the major sins lead to disbelief, even if only one of them is done.