Should we fear Islam?

[Autodidact]

just today's news, friend. it's about Bin Laden. his "soldier" says that commands of Bin Laden are "farz" to all Muslims. do you know what farz is? let me explain; farz is what God commands us to do or not to do. IMO only this detail about Bin Laden tells enough of his character, his intention and his quality as a Muslim. next time you calculate behavour of Muslims, please consider the difference between being committed to God and being committed to this world; greed, hatred, revenge and ambitions. maybe you realize how easy it becomes for some men to follow their egos as gods, justify their acts by ignoring truth of Islam itself and even claim certain acts that's required by their personal purposes to be "Command Of God"

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The fact that no two Muslims can agree on the most basic tenets of their religion only demonstrates how incoherent and contradictory Islam (and all other religions I've encountered) is.

 

[Autodidact]

being Muslim is not like nationality. you can't research it on the net or papers. you really must go in to his mind to find out. but of course, actions speak loader than words. that's the data i use when i analyze people

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So there's no way for us to know whether anyone who posts here on RF, and calls themself a Muslim, really is?

Are people who call themselves Muslim prone to lying or self-delusion about things so basic as their religion? Why can't we take their word for it?

 

[.lava]

The fact that no two Muslims can agree on the most basic tenets of their religion only demonstrates how incoherent and contradictory Islam (and all other religions I've encountered) is.

what basic tenet are you referring to, Autodidact?

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[Autodidact]

Yes, actions speak louder than words...

Muslims around the world were asked their "confidence" level in Osama Bin Laden, the question worded as follows:

"Now I'm going to read a list of political leaders. For each, tell me how much confidence you have in each leader to do the right thing regarding world affairs - a lot of confidence, some confidence, not too much confidence, or no confidence at all. Osama bin Laden."

Yup, the results say a lot about the muslim mindset...

Compare Predominantly Muslim Countries on Confidence in Osama bin Laden - Pew Global Attitudes Project Key Indicators Database

I have no desire to go into each muslim mind to find out if they are a muslim. I figure just asking them is best, and I'm confident Osama Bin Laden would tell me he is a muslim. And sorry, I cannot take his version of Islam less seriously than your version.

Still want to argue that Muslims who support terrorism are a tiny minority? Apparently half of Pakistanis, Jordanians and Nigerians endorse the world's leading terrorist.

 

[Autodidact]

of course he would. i take everything seriously, specially the ones that kill people. nothing wrong with that. but as you see, my knowledge that comes from Qur'an made it impossible for me to follow him, trust him, love him and respect him. if this guy is still alive and powerful, that's thanks to what USA does in Middle East. i think this is fact and it should be taken seriously as well

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Just want to make sure I understand what you're saying--it's the U.S.A's fault that Osama Bin Laden is a leading Muslim?

 

[Autodidact]

I don't think I would call Bin Laden a Muslim. The Quran says not to make mischief in the earth, or make war unless an enemy makes war with you first. So there you have it from the Quran itself- former Muslim

What percentage of people-who-call-themselves-Muslim actually are, in your view?

Who gets to decide?

 

[Autodidact]

what version would that be exactly? how could using religion as your tool to commit crime, kill civilians (of course that's assuming he is the grand architect of 9/11) and manipulate people by abusing their hopeless situation as in Iraq make someone "religious" person in your opinion? IMO his name, Bin Laden, nothing but a trade mark after all

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Yes, those are all common actions for many religious people throughout history.

 

[Autodidact]

You people that ask the question "should we fear islam" have been simply brain washed by the media. You fail to think outside the box and you let others think for you. You are stereotypical and have no first hand accounts. You are "fearing" a religion based on the representation of a small percentage of people. In that case then, I shall open a new thread: "Should I fear leaving my child with a Catholic." hahahahah

You should definitely fear leaving your child alone with a Catholic cleric. I doubt that any reasonable person would do so at this point.

Are you claiming that a small percentage of Muslims advocate terrorism, discriminate against women, and deny equal rights and freedoms to others?

 

[Autodidact]

no problem here, a country that has full sharia implemented does not exist at present. so no problem.

Apparently their attempts to implement it have extremely negative consequences, so it would be better if they stopped trying.

btw, which country comes closest, in your view?

 

[.lava]

So there's no way for us to know whether anyone who posts here on RF, and calls themself a Muslim, really is?

Are people who call themselves Muslim prone to lying or self-delusion about things so basic as their religion? Why can't we take their word for it?

are you are we are talking about Usama Bin Laden? this is not about how to know and analyze people that we met on internet

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[Autodidact]

it is also basic Islamic principle not to kill civilians. besides, i don't see how 9/11 is self-defense

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Yes, we understand that you disagree with them, but what gives you the authority to declare that you're right and they're wrong. Isn't it up to each Muslim to decide how best to live their faith? They would say that you're failing in your duty to pursue jihad. They would say that you're not a True Muslim. Do they have the right to kick you out? Or you them?

 

[Autodidact]

no need to feel that way. the islamic nation ruled by a caliph does not exist. no muslim is allowed to take the law into his/her own hands. if you are a homosexual then no need to worry. the only thing you should fear is ignorance. thats what kills people.

And unfortunately, it's rife in Islamic countries.

 

[Autodidact]

Islamic societies can only kill homosexuals for open public sexual acts anyway, which it also forbids ALL open sexual acts, which I don't think sex needs to be displayed in public period. I think it's inappropriate.- Gay

Oh, well in that case I guess we don't have to worry.

 

[.lava]

Yes, those are all common actions for many religious people throughout history.

being religious would not make anyone potential criminal. ever considered that religion is used to manipulate people only because people care for religion?

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[McBell]

are you are we are talking about Usama Bin Laden? this is not about how to know and analyze people that we met on internet

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AH.
So you know Bin Laden personally then, right?

 

[.lava]

Yes, we understand that you disagree with them, but what gives you the authority to declare that you're right and they're wrong. Isn't it up to each Muslim to decide how best to live their faith? They would say that you're failing in your duty to pursue jihad. They would say that you're not a True Muslim. Do they have the right to kick you out? Or you them?

i would disagree with Muslims about certain things, that is possible but killing civilians is definetely not one of them, Autodidact. so now saying Bin Laden is a wrong doer and should not be followed by Muslims is wrong and you look for people to disagree with me? what's wrong with you?

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[Autodidact]

ignorance, ignorance, please go away. (not you, but ingorance)
can you please stop with these silly statements.

In what way are they silly? Are not Muslim governments killing homosexuals?

yes the laws of islam say to kill a homosexual

That's all I needed. Yes, we need to fear Islam, and do everything in our power to wipe it off the face of the earth. Thank you.

(only the government has such authority only after certain citeria are met.). the quran does mentione homosexuality, it mentions how those people were destroyed for being homosexual.

No, it is silent on the subject of lesbianism.

the islamic dress code says women must wea a head scarf. but why feel bad about it, it would be against your will just like muslim women are told not to wear it in some countries.

Silly me, I thought it was up to me to decide what I wear, and not expose myself to the risk of being beaten up or arrested because I don't wear a scarf on my head. Why am I even talking about such a horrible religion? Because it exists, I guess.

muslim women are allowed to go out in public without a male companion. that sentence is plain ignorance. state the hadith if you dissagree.

Except where they're not, like Saudi Arabia.

For the hundredth time, it's not about the hadith, eselam, it's about reality. IN REALITY, there are Muslim countries that do not allow a woman to leave her house without a male escort. That's oppression, and it's Islam that's doing it.

I'm starting to lose my temper.

Here you have people killing innocent people because they don't want them to have sex with each other, locking women in their houses, not to mention blowing up innocent people, and your concern is to defend it! It's indefensible. Stop telling me to accept it, and start making Muslims stop doing it.

 

[Autodidact]

Atheism has a lot of crazies who think god-believers have a mental disorder and need medication. That's what I call crazy.

Please post an example of an organized gay organization killing innocent people for their beliefs, sexuality, or anything else that doesn't hurt other people.

I know--I'm afraid to get on an airplane cuz some crazy atheist might get on there with a weapon and declare atheist jihad against all the believers on the plane. You see it on FOX news all the time.

 

[Autodidact]

ignoring the facts, really?

the whole of islam and it's laws and teachings have been written down on paper. if you'd like to learn about islam, you will find it written down. not in some anti-islamic website, but in a website that has the correct teachings of islam. there are no 2 sides there is only one side, one islam. but because it is to your convenience there are 2 sides.

ask bin laden what islam says about killing innocents. you will see how commited he is to his faith.

You have a hard time grasping things, don't you? For the thousandth time, we're not discussing what the qur'an says; that's a separate topic. We're talking about what actual people-who-call-themselves Muslim actually do in the actual name of Islam. Get it? Or do I need to go over it again? It's really not that complicated a concept, and I'm getting tired of explaining it to you.

 

[.lava]

AH.
So you know Bin Laden personally then, right?

no, thank God, no. but as you see, it is us who has to clean the mess he caused. because of his own doings all the Muslims are seen suspicious and dangerous. i don't need to know him personally. i know and see what he did, his work and result of his actions. that's enough for me

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