Should we fear Islam?

[Autodidact]

Ni you wouldn't Lava but he does,

He considers there to be a war against Muslims in Lebanon and Palestine so he as part of the ummah is entitled to attack Israel and the US as defending those Lebanese and Palestinians.Thats using the self defence argument.

His Fatwa

“The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it.”


however is clearly not justifiable in any Islamic sense that i can find.

\

btw, Is Osama Bin Laden educated and knowledgeable about the qur'an?

 

[Autodidact]

Well as I mentioned, straight people get punished too for open public acts in Islamic socities. Were the gay people executed commiting sex acts in public? I'm gay, so I'm in no way condoning this, I'm just saying, if you live in an Islamic society where you know what the law says about open sexual acts and you do it anyway, you broke the law knowingly.

No; they're not retarded. They were killed for being gay. Period.

According to The Boroumand Foundation,[15] there are records of at least 107 executions with charges related to homosexuality between 1979 and 1990.[16] According to Amnesty International, at least 5 people convicted of "homosexual tendencies", three men and two women, were executed in January 1990, as a result of the Iranian government's policy of calling for the execution of those who practice homosexuality.[17] In April 1992, Dr. Ali Mozafarian, a Sunni Muslim leader in the Fars province (Southern Iran), was executed in Shiraz after being convicted on charges of espionage, adultery, and sodomy. His videotaped confession was broadcast on television in Shiraz and in the streets of Kazerun and Lar.
On November 12, 1995, by the verdict of the eighth judicial branch of Hamadan and the confirmation of the Supreme Court of Iran, Mehdi Barazandeh, otherwise known as Safa Ali Shah Hamadani, was condemned to death. The judicial authorities announced that Barazandeh's crimes were repeated acts of adultery and "the obscene act of sodomy." The court's decree was carried out by stoning Barazandeh. Barazandeh belonged to the Khaksarieh Sect of Dervishes. (Islamic Republic Newspaper - November 14, 1995 + reported in Homan's magazine June 10, 1996).
In a November 2007 meeting with his British counterpart, Iranian MP Mohsen Yahyavi admitted that Iran believes in the death penalty for homosexuality. According to Yahyavi, gays deserve to be tortured, executed, or both.[18]
In July 2005 the Iranian Student News Agency covered the execution of Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni in Mashhad, which drew international attention when disturbing photos of the hanging were widely distributed around the Internet.[19] The executions of the two teenagers divided the human rights community over whether it was a gay issue; all human rights groups condemned the hangings as they were for crimes allegedly committed when the boys were minors.[20] The initial report from the ISNA, a government press agency, had stated that they were hanged for homosexuality; after the international outcry, the Iranian government stated the hangings were primarily for raping a boy.
A similar pattern arose with the execution of Makwan Moloudzadeh (sometimes spelled "Mouloudzadeh") on December 6, 2007. Moloudzadeh maintained his innocence throughout the trial. He was convicted of lavat-e iqabi (anal sex) and executed for raping three teenage boys when he was 13, even though all witnesses had retracted their accusations and Moloudzadeh withdrew a forced confession.[21][22] It is questionable whether Moloudzadeh was gay. Despite international outcry and a nullification of the death sentence by Iranian Chief Justice Ayatollah Seyed Mahmoud Hashemi Shahrud, Moloudzadeh was hanged without his family or his attorney being informed until after the fact.[23][24] The execution provoked international outcry since it violated two international treaties signed by Iran that outlaw capital punishment for crimes committed by minors, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Convention on the Rights of the Child.[25]
Two men were allegedly hanged publicly in the northern town of Gorgan for homosexual acts in November 2005.[26] In July 2006 two youths were hanged for homosexuality in north-eastern Iran.[3] On November 16, 2006, the State-run news agency reported the public execution of man convicted of sodomy in the western city of Kermanshah.
[wiki]

 

[Autodidact]

muslims judge one another by actions, if his actions aren't in accordance to islam then he is not a muslim.

So millions of so-called Muslims are liars? Like the near-majority of Pakistanis who endorse Bin Laden?

 

[Autodidact]

muslims judge one another by actions, if his actions aren't in accordance to islam then he is not a muslim.

Well he says the same thing about you, and how are we non-Muslims to sort it out?

 

[.lava]

Autodidact bombardment has started...

.

 

[McBell]

no, thank God, no.

Then how can you judge him?

but as you see, it is us who has to clean the mess he caused. because of his own doings all the Muslims are seen suspicious and dangerous. i don't need to know him personally. i know and see what he did, his work and result of his actions. that's enough for me

.

It is not ONLY his doings that have caused this.
It is the doings of thousands and the not doings of millions of Muslims.

 

[Autodidact]

So here's what I'm getting from the Muslims in this thread: People who call themselves Muslim tend to be hypocrites and liars, cannot even be trusted to abide by their own religion, and should not be trusted until they prove themselves to be the exception rather than the rule. Is that right?

 

[Autodidact]

saying stuff and doing stuff are 2 different things, if his doings are not in accordance to islam then he is a non-muslim. a hypocrite. i believe he was praising the nigerian national who failed to blow up the chrismas day plane in the US. that there says he is not a muslim.

But he calls himself Muslim, true? And he thinks he's Muslim, true? And so do millions of other people who call themselves Muslim and think they're Muslim, correct?

So apparently what we need to fear are people who call themselves Muslim, and so-called Islam. Would you agree with that?

 

[.lava]

So here's what I'm getting from the Muslims in this thread: People who call themselves Muslim tend to be hypocrites and liars, cannot even be trusted to abide by their own religion, and should not be trusted until they prove themselves to be the exception rather than the rule. Is that right?

well, if someone is killing dozens of civilians i think you can say that. because it is a crime by all standards, got it?

.

 

[Autodidact]

KAI you are viewing everything in tunnel vision. Your questioning a religion based on the acts of a small group of people. Was it not the USA that abused and murdered African Americans ? Was it not Germany that executed millions of Jews ? Can I question every catholic for what the pope has/will do in the future ? The answer to that is no. If Osama bin laden represented our religion, then Islam would not be the fastest growing religion in the world. Soon to surpas Christianity.

Actually, it's not; atheism is.

Are you familiar with the tu quoque fallacy? Just because the Nazis were evil does not excuse the evil of modern so-called Islam.

 

[Autodidact]

you'll find crazies on all 4 corners of the wolrd

But in some corners they get treatment, and in some corners they get to be the Supreme Leader.

 

[Autodidact]

i don't read ancient arabic neither, i read english. my god is not limited only to those who speak/understand arabic. he understands all languages.

there is not 'your' or 'mine' or 'his' interpretation. there is one interpretation as i said earlier, only one islam. anyone who says differently to this islam is not a muslim and does not follow islam at all.

Who gets to decide which interpretation is True Islam?

 

[.lava]

Then how can you judge him?

[/font]
It is not ONLY his doings that have caused this.
It is the doings of thousands and the not doings of millions of Muslims.

everything i say about that guy is basicly assuming he oganized 9/11. i don't need to know anyone who think it is his right to kill hundreds of civilians. i don't care if he is Muslim or not. i don't care what reason or logic he uses to justify that.

.

 

[Autodidact]

no muslims are allowed to judge one another by actions. we can't call a muslim non-muslim if we "think" he is only pretending to be. that is for Allah to judge, he judges by intention and action, muslims (the people) judge one another based only on actions.

So basically, by saying that Bin Laden is not a true Muslim, based on his actions, you were not following Islam, so you're not a true Muslim?

muslims judge one another by actions, if his actions aren't in accordance to islam then he is not a muslim.

no muslims are allowed to judge one another by actions. we can't call a muslim non-muslim if we "think" he is only pretending to be.

 

[Autodidact]

all islamic countries do alot of un-islamic things.

with homosexuality though, one does not need to have sex in public to punish him. anyone who displays characteristics of a homosexual, must prove that he is not. otherwise if there are evidence against him/her and he/she doesn't leave the homosexual way of life (being homosexual) there is a possibility that he/she will be punished, with death most likely.

i read this once, but i don't know where so unfortnately i can't post a link.

And that, in a nutshell, with nothing more, is why all decent people must fear and combat Islam. Thank you for your honesty.

 

[Autodidact]

the quran and the hadith (which is where islamc laws and teachings have it's roots from) have been explained, they have only one interpretation. they are not a novel that let you decide what the ending is. they have clearly and simply been explained.

And yet, interestingly, sincere devout people who do their best to live with them have opposite opinions about what that is.

 

[Autodidact]

yes there is only one interpretation.

Are you claiming that all of the world's Muslims agree on how to interpret the qur'an?

How about all of the world's so-called Muslims? They all agree on what women should be allowed to wear? Whether Islam permits killing civilians? Whether homosexuals should be executed?

 

[McBell]

Autodidact bombardment has started...

.

I know not which part is worse.
The Autodidact bombardment, or that the bombardment goes 98% un-refuted.

 

[McBell]

everything i say about that guy is basicly assuming he oganized 9/11. i don't need to know anyone who think it is his right to kill hundreds of civilians. i don't care if he is Muslim or not. i don't care what reason or logic he uses to justify that.

.

So you freely admit that your judgment is based purely on assumption?

 

[.lava]

I know not which part is worse.
The Autodidact bombardment, or that the bombardment goes 98% un-refuted.

we can only refute with verses of Qur'an. that's what i think. but for now, i'll just have a cup of tea cos fireworks of Autodidact tired me a little, cute though

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