Should we fear Islam?

[Rainbow Mage]

esalam supports a notion that is un-Islamic according to the Koran. She said she believes gay people should be put to death even for exibiting homosexual tendencies in society, whatever those may be. The Koran only says that if ANYBODY (gay or straight) commits a public sexual act, and there are four witnesses to verify, punish them.

 

[McBell]

we can only refute with verses of Qur'an. that's what i think. but for now, i'll just have a cup of tea cos fireworks of Autodidact tired me a little, cute though

.

Then you are merely showing how the Koran does not cover everything.

 

[.lava]

Then you are merely showing how the Koran does not cover everything.

yes, problem is "everything". if a non-Muslim asked a question and wanted to know what Qur'an would offer about certain issue, than i can research and bring related verses. but in this kind of discussion many things are said, dozens of stuff. how could i provide verses for all of them?

.

 

[McBell]

yes, problem is "everything". if a non-Muslim asked a question and wanted to know what Qur'an would offer about certain issue, than i can research and bring related verses. but in this kind of discussion many things are said, dozens of stuff. how could i provide verses for all of them?

.

Now it sounds like you are back peddling...

 

[Gharib]

But it is still the same house.

exactly thats what i'm saying.

 

[Gharib]

This is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Unless of course you agree with the Muslims suicide bombers....

which suicide bombers, those that kill armed troops or those that kill civilians?

Islam Online- News Section

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1203757896805&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

Says you.

says the facts and scholars who have explained everything.

Again, this is nothing more than wishful thinking on your part.

See, a big huge part of the problem is that there are far to many like you who prefer to ignore the problems Islam faces.

there is no problem with islam, the problem is in the hypocrites that call themselves muslim.

 

[Agnostic75]

Message to eselam: What evidence do you have that a God inspired the Qur'an and the Hadith?

In your opinion, what justifies what God does?

 

[Gharib]

Apparently their attempts to implement it have extremely negative consequences, so it would be better if they stopped trying.

btw, which country comes closest, in your view?

the consequences are from implementing on-islamic laws and calling them islamic.

no country is closest.

 

[Gharib]

Yes, we understand that you disagree with them, but what gives you the authority to declare that you're right and they're wrong. Isn't it up to each Muslim to decide how best to live their faith? They would say that you're failing in your duty to pursue jihad. They would say that you're not a True Muslim. Do they have the right to kick you out? Or you them?

this is the authority

Fight Ethics Between Islam and Zionism - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

 

[Gharib]

And unfortunately, it's rife in Islamic countries.

in non-islamic too.

 

[Autodidact]

the consequences are from implementing on-islamic laws and calling them islamic.

So basically, just as people-who-try-to-be-Muslim are really bad at it, so countries that try to implement sharia law also do a really bad job? Sounds like a problem with Islam and sharia law, to me.

In any case, whatever they're doing, the world would definitely be better of if they stopped, don't you agree?

no country is closest.

No country in the world has ever implemented a single sharia law? Wow, sounds like Islam fails again; even when 100% of a country, as well as all the country's rulers, are Muslim, they can't manage to enact a single sharia law.

 

[Autodidact]

this is the authority

Fight Ethics Between Islam and Zionism - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar

What is, Islamonline? Why? How did they get the authority?

btw, clicked on your link--what a bunch of dishonest propaganda. They falsely compare a tiny group of rabbis to their idealized, non-existent Islam. In reality, you know as well as I do that Islamic terrorists have slaughtered thousands of innocent civilians, many of them Muslim. Would you like me to cite a few fatwas authorizing, no ordering Muslims to kill innocent civilians?

 

[Gharib]

In what way are they silly? Are not Muslim governments killing homosexuals?

see what i mean about silly? i've told you many times before, the islamic government does not exist. countries where muslims are a majority do persecute homosexuals.

That's all I needed. Yes, we need to fear Islam, and do everything in our power to wipe it off the face of the earth. Thank you.

you are begining to sound like an extremist.

No, it is silent on the subject of lesbianism.

whats the difference, it's homosexual, same thing.
There is at least one mention of lesbian behavior mentioned in the Hadith: "Sihaq (lesbian sexual activity) of women is zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) among them."

Silly me, I thought it was up to me to decide what I wear, and not expose myself to the risk of being beaten up or arrested because I don't wear a scarf on my head. Why am I even talking about such a horrible religion? Because it exists, I guess. Except where they're not, like Saudi Arabia.

so why doesn't the west allow muslim women to wear what they want? there is no mandatory dress code in the western world with the exception of some things that aren't publically allowed.

For the hundredth time, it's not about the hadith, eselam, it's about reality. IN REALITY, there are Muslim countries that do not allow a woman to leave her house without a male escort. That's oppression, and it's Islam that's doing it.

I'm starting to lose my temper.

islam does not say that women cannot go in public without a male escort. if you want to complain about the laws of saudi arabia go and do it somewhere else. saudi arabia does not represent islam.

if islam is doing it then please post the quranic verse or hadith that says so, if you are truthful.

Here you have people killing innocent people because they don't want them to have sex with each other, locking women in their houses, not to mention blowing up innocent people, and your concern is to defend it! It's indefensible. Stop telling me to accept it, and start making Muslims stop doing it.

i'm not telling you to accept it, i'm telling you that most of the stuff you brag about are not islamic, get it? muslims don't do it, ignorance is. i am a muslim, you don't see me tell women they can't go out on their own, you don't see me blow up bombs to kill civilians, i would be dead if i did. please get you facts straight before you continue with this drivel that has nothing to do with islam.

 

[Gharib]

atodidact i can't be bothered with you anymore, if you are going to be such an immature person then i won't waste my time in trying to explain reality to you.

 

[Autodidact]

in non-islamic too.

Not so much. The world's least literate countries:

Burkina Faso
Nepal
Sierra Leone
Benin
Somalia
Malawi
Namibia
Sudan
Gambia
Niger
Afghanistan
Mali
Mozambique
Guinea
Ethiopia
Pakistan
Bangladesh

Almost all Muslim, and none secular.

 

[Gharib]

Not so much. The world's least literate countries:

i was talking about ignorance, not illiteracy. do you even know the difference?

 

[Autodidact]

see what i mean about silly? i've told you many times before, the islamic government does not exist. countries where muslims are a majority do persecute homosexuals.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot, "so-called Islamic governments." We need to fear so-called Islam.

You still don't seem to be able to grasp the idea that words mean what they are commonly accepted as meaning. "Islam" refers not to some imaginary, ideal religion, but to an actual religion practiced by actual people in the actual world.

you are begining to sound like an extremist.

It follows, obviously. Should I be supporting a movement that seeks to kill me?

whats the difference, it's homosexual, same thing.

Oh really, so Islam teaches equality between the sexes? What kind of hijab do you wear?

There is at least one mention of lesbian behavior mentioned in the Hadith: "Sihaq (lesbian sexual activity) of women is zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) among them."

But none in the qur'an.

so why doesn't the west allow muslim women to wear what they want?

Here in America any Muslim woman can wear whatever she likes, as long as it's not indecent.

there is no mandatory dress code in the western world with the exception of some things that aren't publically allowed.

Yup. Unlike in so-called Islamic countries.

islam does not say that women cannot go in public without a male escort. if you want to complain about the laws of saudi arabia go and do it somewhere else. saudi arabia does not represent islam.

Well it sure as heck isn't atheist! But, once again, Saudi Arabia is a real country full of real people who call themselves Muslim, rulers who call themselves Muslim, instituting laws they think are Islamic, and that's the problem. I'm not arguing about your non-existent religion, but the actual religion.

So basically all the so-called Muslims in Saudi Arabia are liars?

Is there such a thing as someone who calls themselves Muslim and is not a liar? To hear you talk, people who call themselves Muslim seem to be unusually unreliable.

if islam is doing it then please post the quranic verse or hadith that says so, if you are truthful.

Why is it that I need to tell you the same thing over and over? Why can't you grasp the elementary idea that has nothing to do with what the qur'an says? I'm not arguing that. Go fight with the other people-who-are-suffering-under-the-delusion-that-they're-Muslim-but-eselam-knows-better, in another thread. This one is about what so-called Muslims actually do according to their so-called Islam.

i'm not telling you to accept it, i'm telling you that most of the stuff you brag about are not islamic, get it? muslims don't do it, ignorance is. i am a muslim, you don't see me tell women they can't go out on their own, you don't see me blow up bombs to kill civilians, i would be dead if i did. please get you facts straight before you continue with this drivel that has nothing to do with islam.

It has everything to do with so-called Islam, which is what we all--including you--need to fear and combat. What are you doing to combat so-called Islam, eselam? Because I'm sure you agree it's evil.

 

[Autodidact]

atodidact i can't be bothered with you anymore, if you are going to be such an immature person then i won't waste my time in trying to explain reality to you.

I'm sure it's much easier to call me names than to actually refute my points, or at least understand them, but it's the custom here at RF to address the argument, not the person making it.

 

[Autodidact]

i was talking about ignorance, not illiteracy. do you even know the difference?

You don't think there's a strong relationship between ignorance and illiteracy?

How would you measure ignorance?

btw, why do YOU think so many so-called Muslim countries full of so-called (but not to be believed) Muslims are so illiterate?

 

[McBell]

which suicide bombers,

Any of them.

says the facts and scholars who have explained everything.

Again: says you.

there is no problem with islam, the problem is in the hypocrites that call themselves muslim.

Thank you for proving my point.
The more you ignore the problems, the worse they get.