Should we fear Islam?

[.lava]

Prophets would not chose whom to marry because they don't have free will. their marriages were never depend on personal, specially sexual desires and not every marriage is equal sexual relationship, that would be assumption and expectation of one's mind. marriage of Mohammad SAW with Aisha brought peace between two tribes and Aisha AS was actually engaged withanother man before him. besides, this happened 14 centuries ago where social norms and tradition were completely different from today. back then girls did not even have birth certificate. they used to count years as age of a girl only after she start having her period. Aisha AS was chosen to marry him, one of the reasons is she had strong memory and today most of hadiths are known by us thanks to her. besides she did not even have a child. how could any of you make accusation since you can't know what happened between those two? you only assume and make claims as if Mohammad SAW was not a Prophet of God. an ordinary man would take advantage of such a situation but not a messenger of God. he is a moral symbol and he was never slave to his own desires which he did not have any unlike those sick people you tend to compare him with

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[stiletto]

an ordinary man would take advantage of such a situation but not a messenger of God. he is a moral symbol and he was never slave to his own desires which he did not have any unlike those sick people you tend to compare him with.

I've know some dirt bag males in my time, but not a single one of them that would want to "take advantage of such a situation" and marry and have sex with a 9-year-old-child. If God wants to be loved and respected, I'd say arranging it so his messenger engaged in pedophile behaviour was not a very smart move. It's repulsive enough for me to reach my conclusion... yes, we should fear Islam, especially as little girls.

 

[.lava]

I've know some dirt bags males in my time, but not a single one of them that would want to "take advantage of such a situation" and marry and have sex with a 9-year-old-child. If God wants to be loved and respected, I'd say arranging it so his messenger engages in pedophile behaviour was not a very smart move.

what makes you so sure marriage of a Prophet was based on sexuality? he was a Prophet, a leader. he was not here to have fun. he had a duty therefor he did not get to chose anything for his own. he did not chose Aisha AS as wife either. she was chosen by God for a reason and that reason has nothing to do with sexuality. that's your assumption based on what you see here and now. he was not pedophile and Aisha AS was definitely not abused by Prophet. that's ridicules to claim that. as i said, Aisha AS did not have a child. noone could say she did not die as a virgin. or are you willing to accuse people by making blind assumptions and pretend as if you witness a thing yourself? there are similar marriages in history, all for political reasons. a king at 30 years old gets married with 5 year old but that is not to say he is a pedophile. it is only a political move to bring peace between two kingdoms and such. are you going to ignore these facts as well? and how are you going to explain how come Prophet did not have many wives at young age? all of his wives were older than 50 when he married with them. he was a leader, people would do anything for him. then why did not have young wives while he could? i guess you don't get to consider this because you just can not accpet the possibility that he was in fact Prophet of God so you are trying to explain everything about him as if he was an ordinary man, well he was not. no ordinary men would be able to make billion follow him after 14 centuries

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[The_Evelyonian]

noone could say she did not die as a virgin.

So...when the hadith says (several times) that the marriage was consummated when Aisha was nine...it's lying?

 

[Gharib]

What in the article do you disagree with?

i didn't read it, thats the point, the site is anti-sialmic. it twists the information around.

if you want the correct perspective, then the link i provided has that perspective.

 

[.lava]

So...when the hadith says (several times) that the marriage was consummated when Aisha was nine...it's lying?

no, i don't think it is a lie. but i don't see any reason why one should take a marriage that brought peace between two tribes as if it's equal sexual relationship since that's not the purpose of any marriage of a Prophet

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[Gharib]

Aisha was 6 when Muhammed married her. She was 9 when the marriage was consummated.

i do now she was 9 when the marriage was consumated, i don't recall her being married at 6 though. maybe i just can't remember the hadith properly.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

no, i don't think it is a lie. but i don't see any reason why one should take a marriage that brought peace between two tribes as if it's equal sexual relationship since that's not the purpose of any marriage of a Prophet

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The purpose of the marriage is irrelevant. The fact that Muhammed had sexual intercourse with a nine-year old child is not.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

i do now she was 9 when the marriage was consumated, i don't recall her being married at 6 though. maybe i just can't remember the hadith properly.

From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234

"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."

Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

 

[Gharib]

Okay eselam, let's try this... I'll take your word for it... how old was Aisha when Mohammad married her? And how old was she when he had sexual intercourse with her? Do you confirm the above ages provided by The_Evelyonian?

i think the ages provided are correct. but you must know that the marriage was consumated at 9, meaning she didn't go to live with Muhammed (saws) untill she became 9.

 

[.lava]

The purpose of the marriage is irrelevant.

i am sorry but what you say is absolutely ridicules.

The fact that Muhammed had sexual intercourse with a nine-year old child is not.

and as an atheist your proof is religious scripts, right? sorry dude but i can't really take people like you seriously. you tend to use anything about religion, God and Prophets and while doing it you are OK with using religious stuff as if you have faith in them, as long as you find a way to abuse them to justify your lack of belief (or whatever you call it)
Prophet was married with someone else when she was 9 or 10 or 15 makes no difference because none of us could know how long he waited or even touch her once. you have no proof of this kind of stuff because it is private but the truth is Aisha SA was very happy with him and she wanted to be his wife in heaven too. no victim of sexual abuse would feel such a love, respect and loyality

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[Gharib]

In what way is it terrible to marry a girl of nine? Do I really need to go into it? Wow, I'm shocked. Well, in most civilized societies, we consider that children should be allowed to live their childhood, and not enter into adult marital relationships until they're adults. Among other things, they're not mature enough to give their free consent to a lifetime commitment to (among other things) an exclusive sexual relationship. Would you allow your little girl to get married?

i can see how little thought you put into your reply, so i can rightly say, your ignorance is showing. surely you want to know why, don't you?

Mine and most civliized people. Not yours?

and when exactly did you become civilised, i'd say about 300 years ago if not less.

Because it's a voluntary love relationship between adults. Really, eselam, it speaks volumes that I have to explain this to you. It's as though your religion has retarded your moral understanding, instead of advancing it.

right, 2 consenting adults, that makes it alright. tell me why wasn't it then alright for you to be born without your consent. if giving consent is ok, not giving consent should not be ok. but you never gave consent to be born.

some people are giving consent to be left to starve, but the australian government does not allow those mercy killings, because even though it is adults who are giving consent it is a bad act. but thats different to homosexuality isn't it. it's about 2 consenting adults right?

 

[Gharib]

Prophets would not chose whom to marry because they don't have free will. their marriages were never depend on personal, specially sexual desires and not every marriage is equal sexual relationship, that would be assumption and expectation of one's mind. marriage of Mohammad SAW with Aisha brought peace between two tribes and Aisha AS was actually engaged withanother man before him. besides, this happened 14 centuries ago where social norms and tradition were completely different from today. back then girls did not even have birth certificate. they used to count years as age of a girl only after she start having her period. Aisha AS was chosen to marry him, one of the reasons is she had strong memory and today most of hadiths are known by us thanks to her. besides she did not even have a child. how could any of you make accusation since you can't know what happened between those two? you only assume and make claims as if Mohammad SAW was not a Prophet of God. an ordinary man would take advantage of such a situation but not a messenger of God. he is a moral symbol and he was never slave to his own desires which he did not have any unlike those sick people you tend to compare him with

.

good post.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

i am sorry but what you say is absolutely ridicules.



and as an atheist your proof is religious scripts, right? sorry dude but i can't really take people like you seriously. you tend to use anything about religion, God and Prophets and while doing it you are OK with using religious stuff as if you have faith in them, as long as you find a way to abuse them to justify your lack of belief (or whatever you call it)
Prophet was married with someone else when she was 9 or 10 or 15 makes no difference because none of us could know how long he waited or even touch her once. you have no proof of this kind of stuff because it is private but the truth is Aisha SA was very happy with him and she wanted to be his wife in heaven too. no victim of sexual abuse would feel such a love, respect and loyality

.

My religious beliefs or lack thereof do not change what's written in your own holy books. If you want to dismiss me because I'm an Atheist that's your call to make but it doesn't change what's written in your scriptures.

 

[Gharib]

The purpose of the marriage is irrelevant. The fact that Muhammed had sexual intercourse with a nine-year old child is not.

the purpose of marriage is the whole point, how ould it not be relevant?

he would not have married her nor any other of his wives after khadija if the purpose was not important, which was for political reasons to bring peace among the tribes and strangthen their ties. saying otherwise is to just speak ignorantly.

 

[Gharib]

From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, #234

"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."

Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

yes they are correct, thank you for posting them.

 

[Autodidact]

Prophets would not chose whom to marry because they don't have free will. their marriages were never depend on personal, specially sexual desires and not every marriage is equal sexual relationship, that would be assumption and expectation of one's mind. marriage of Mohammad SAW with Aisha brought peace between two tribes and Aisha AS was actually engaged withanother man before him. besides, this happened 14 centuries ago where social norms and tradition were completely different from today. back then girls did not even have birth certificate. they used to count years as age of a girl only after she start having her period. Aisha AS was chosen to marry him, one of the reasons is she had strong memory and today most of hadiths are known by us thanks to her. besides she did not even have a child. how could any of you make accusation since you can't know what happened between those two? you only assume and make claims as if Mohammad SAW was not a Prophet of God. an ordinary man would take advantage of such a situation but not a messenger of God. he is a moral symbol and he was never slave to his own desires which he did not have any unlike those sick people you tend to compare him with

.

Well, speaking for myself, I don't find marrying a little girl to be a positive moral symbol.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

the purpose of marriage is the whole point, how ould it not be relevant?

he would not have married her nor any other of his wives after khadija if the purpose was not important, which was for political reasons to bring peace among the tribes and strangthen their ties. saying otherwise is to just speak ignorantly.

The fact that a 56-year old man had sex with a 9-year old girl is what disturbs so many people. Whatever his reason for marrying her (God told him to, the marriage would bring peace, or just because he really wanted to), it doesn't change anything.

 

[Autodidact]

yes they are correct, thank you for posting them.

Wait a minute: consummated? CONSUMMATED?!?! Are you sure you want to agree to that? You might want to check your dictionary first. Because that's way over the line.

 

[Autodidact]

the purpose of marriage is the whole point, how ould it not be relevant?

he would not have married her nor any other of his wives after khadija if the purpose was not important, which was for political reasons to bring peace among the tribes and strangthen their ties. saying otherwise is to just speak ignorantly.

And we see that as often happens with religionists, morality is relative. I am having a hard time thinking of a purpose that makes pedophilia morally acceptable. Maybe under some bizarre scenario that would save the child's life???