Should we fear Islam?

[Autodidact]

i can see how little thought you put into your reply, so i can rightly say, your ignorance is showing. surely you want to know why, don't you?

No, I don't know anything about it; I'm just relying on what you're teaching me.

and when exactly did you become civilised, i'd say about 300 years ago if not less.

Much less. Probably around 35 years ago.

right, 2 consenting adults, that makes it alright

That's part of it. 2 consenting adults, love, no harm to anyone else, etc.

. tell me why wasn't it then alright for you to be born without your consent. if giving consent is ok, not giving consent should not be ok. but you never gave consent to be born.

I'm sorry this question makes no sense. It's gibberish, and irrelevant. Are you telling me your morality does not take into account other people's wishes?

some people are giving consent to be left to starve, but the australian government does not allow those mercy killings, because even though it is adults who are giving consent it is a bad act. but thats different to homosexuality isn't it. it's about 2 consenting adults right?

I guess, I really have no idea what you're talking about.

I find it fascinating that you think two adults committing to a lifelong commitment of love is immoral, but pedophilia is moral. You're teaching me so much about Islamic morality.

 

[.lava]

My religious beliefs or lack thereof do not change what's written in your own holy books. If you want to dismiss me because I'm an Atheist that's your call to make but it doesn't change what's written in your scriptures.

no, no, i apologize. of course i won't dismiss you because you have different interpretation of reality. i am sorry, that's really not my intention.

my holy books? there is only one holy book that i follow and that would be Qur'an. everything about marriage and divorce is explained in there. i don't know if i could be more clear. when it is a marriage of a Prophet, marriage is not equal or about sex. if today some guy wants to marry 9 year old, i would oppose it. growing up in the house of Prophet is a privilage. that means you would learn knowledge that comes directly from God from the first hand, without any go between. if you really want to have opinion about him you should read more. Mohammad SAW was commanded to perform salaat each night, he was commanded to perform as long as 1/3 of the day, that makes 8 hours of salaat each night. no ordinary men could do that. i can't do that. today some men are eager to marry with young girls but none of them would try to practice Islam as Prophet did and they could not. i personally can't imagine having any sexual thought (let alone desires) after performing salaat for 8 hours. i don't expect any Western to have a healthy understanding about him unless they know about his life as a whole. you just take one thing out of many and trying to make a judgement based on your understanding that's fed by standards of today. you assume his marriage is ordinary, same to any marriage and it is made for sexual purposes. well, it is not. if that would be the case, he would not get married with all those widows and old women while he could marry anyone he wants if he really followed his desires. but i can imagine how you see it. first of all there is no God so he was an ordinary man, right? he made up a religion. let's assume that is true. then he was a king, people adored him and he was offered anything. he could have anything he wanted and he could do anything he wanted. you tell me why did he get married with those ladies who were older than 50? why did not he get married with a dozen of young girls instead?

.

 

[McBell]

and as an atheist your proof is religious scripts, right? sorry dude but i can't really take people like you seriously.

This actually reveals much more about you and your faith than you likely realize.

Prophet was married with someone else when she was 9 or 10 or 15 makes no difference because none of us could know how long he waited or even touch her once.

What the hell are you going on about?
He had sex with her at age nine.
Or perhaps you have a different definition of consummation?

you have no proof of this kind of stuff because it is private but the truth is Aisha SA was very happy with him and she wanted to be his wife in heaven too. no victim of sexual abuse would feel such a love, respect and loyality

.

ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome?

 

[McBell]

Prophets would not chose whom to marry because they don't have free will. their marriages were never depend on personal, specially sexual desires and not every marriage is equal sexual relationship, that would be assumption and expectation of one's mind. marriage of Mohammad SAW with Aisha brought peace between two tribes and Aisha AS was actually engaged withanother man before him. besides, this happened 14 centuries ago where social norms and tradition were completely different from today. back then girls did not even have birth certificate. they used to count years as age of a girl only after she start having her period. Aisha AS was chosen to marry him, one of the reasons is she had strong memory and today most of hadiths are known by us thanks to her. besides she did not even have a child. how could any of you make accusation since you can't know what happened between those two? you only assume and make claims as if Mohammad SAW was not a Prophet of God. an ordinary man would take advantage of such a situation but not a messenger of God. he is a moral symbol and he was never slave to his own desires which he did not have any unlike those sick people you tend to compare him with

.

So in a nut shell you are saying that Allah told Mohammed to screw her at age nine?

 

[Gharib]

So in a nut shell you are saying that Allah told Mohammed to screw her at age nine?

watch the rude language, are all atheists like you?

 

[The_Evelyonian]

my holy books? there is only one holy book that i follow and that would be Qur'an. everything about marriage and divorce is explained in there.

I know, I've read it.

i don't know if i could be more clear. when it is a marriage of a Prophet, marriage is not equal or about sex. if today some guy wants to marry 9 year old, i would oppose it.

So, if some guy marries a 9-year old kid, that would be wrong. But, if the Prophet does it, well that's okay then. Am I right?

growing up in the house of Prophet is a privilage. that means you would learn knowledge that comes directly from God from the first hand, without any go between. if you really want to have opinion about him you should read more. Mohammad SAW was commanded to perform salaat each night, he was commanded to perform as long as 1/3 of the day, that makes 8 hours of salaat each night. no ordinary men could do that. i can't do that. today some men are eager to marry with young girls but none of them would try to practice Islam as Prophet did and they could not. i personally can't imagine having any sexual thought (let alone desires) after performing salaat for 8 hours.

What we can imagine makes no difference. The hadith says what it says.

i don't expect any Western to have a healthy understanding about him unless they know about his life as a whole. you just take one thing out of many and trying to make a judgement based on your understanding that's fed by standards of today.

Well, here's an issue. If god is omniscient (all-knowing) then he would have seen the shift in the moral zeitgeist coming. He would have known that, one day, Muhammed's actions (and thus the man himself) would be looked on with disgust. Why allow the marriage to go through then, knowing that it would be a stumbling block for a multitude of potential converts?

you assume his marriage is ordinary, same to any marriage and it is made for sexual purposes. well, it is not. if that would be the case, he would not get married with all those widows and old women while he could marry anyone he wants if he really followed his desires. but i can imagine how you see it. first of all there is no God so he was an ordinary man, right? he made up a religion. let's assume that is true. then he was a king, people adored him and he was offered anything. he could have anything he wanted and he could do anything he wanted. you tell me why did he get married with those ladies who were older than 50? why did not he get married with a dozen of young girls instead?[/FONT]

.

I don't know and it's not my concern. I don't care about what Muhammed could have done, I care about what he did.

 

[McBell]

watch the rude language, are all atheists like you?

Go cry your river to someone who gives a ****.
And stop calling me an atheist.
You want me to start calling you a Christian?

I did notice that you could not be bothered to answer the question.
This isn't the Islam Sanctuary, so I do not have to kiss your arse.

 

[YmirGF]

watch the rude language, are all atheists like you?

The unfortunate part is, Eselam, that however kindly one wishes to portray the incident, it is not something anyone should be bragging about. Sex with a nine year old is pretty unseemly, at any point in history, for any person, let alone an emissary of god.

 

[Gharib]

you guys are aware that we are speaking of a past that is over 1400 years old, right?

some facts from my home country:

kids drive at the age of 8 that includes other modes of transport than just cars, trucks, buldozers etc. even though it is not permitted by law, it is a democratic country.
some of those in my generation got married at the age of 15, both girls and boys. straigt after year 8.
kids in my home country are more mentally and physically mature than kids in any first world country.

anyone see the point i'm making?

 

[Gharib]

Go cry your river to someone who gives a ****.
And stop calling me an atheist.
You want me to start calling you a Christian?

I did notice that you could not be bothered to answer the question.
This isn't the Islam Sanctuary, so I do not have to kiss your arse.

sorry i didn't know you were not an atheist.
but your civilised way is really showing.
p.s i don't want you to kiss my ***.

 

[Gharib]

The unfortunate part is, Eselam, that however kindly one wishes to portray the incident, it is not something anyone should be bragging about. Sex with a nine year old is pretty unseemly, at any point in history, for any person, let alone an emissary of god.

right, lets judge all history of humanity with your version of what is ok and what is not.

how ok are you with people like gengis khan who invaded lands to spread his kingdom? you want to udge those people by your standards?

 

[Autodidact]

you guys are aware that we are speaking of a past that is over 1400 years old, right?

some facts from my home country:

kids drive at the age of 8 that includes other modes of transport than just cars, trucks, buldozers etc. even though it is not permitted by law, it is a democratic country.
some of those in my generation got married at the age of 15, both girls and boys. straigt after year 8.
kids in my home country are more mentally and physically mature than kids in any first world country.

anyone see the point i'm making?

Yes, you're defending the founder of your religion having sex with a nine-year old girls, something that's indefensible. I really don't think there's any way on earth you're going to persuade us that's moral.

And then, to make it worse, you want to try to persuade us that same-sex love is immoral?!? That is so messed up.

 

[Autodidact]

right, lets judge all history of humanity with your version of what is ok and what is not.

how ok are you with people like gengis khan who invaded lands to spread his kingdom? you want to udge those people by your standards?

And once again, the Muslim in the thread resorts to the "But Johnny does it too" red herring.

Sorry, start a thread if you want to talk about Genghis Kahn, it really has nothing to do the apparent fact, which I learned from you, that your religion was founded by a pedophile.

 

[Gharib]

Yes, you're defending the founder of your religion having sex with a nine-year old girls, something that's indefensible. I really don't think there's any way on earth you're going to persuade us that's moral.

And then, to make it worse, you want to try to persuade us that same-sex love is immoral?!? That is so messed up.

right, i should have stated that you weren't going to understand what i was saying. theres still hope for the others.

 

[Autodidact]

right, i should have stated that you weren't going to understand what i was saying. theres still hope for the others.

Did I misunderstand you? Was the child not nine years old when Muhammed had sex with her? And are you not trying to defend that? Now I'm confused.

 

[Gharib]

And once again, the Muslim in the thread resorts to the "But Johnny does it too" red herring.

Sorry, start a thread if you want to talk about Genghis Kahn, it really has nothing to do the apparent fact, which I learned from you, that your religion was founded by a pedophile.

please refrain from calling Muhammed (saws) a pedophile. if you want to be insultive then open another thread, if you want to communicate in that civilised way of your's you were on about then do so.

 

[Gharib]

Did I misunderstand you? Was the child not nine years old when Muhammed had sex with her? And are you not trying to defend that? Now I'm confused.

of course you did, like always. for the milionth time.

 

[Autodidact]

please refrain from calling Muhammed (saws) a pedophile. if you want to be insultive then open another thread, if you want to communicate in that civilised way of your's you were on about then do so.

Again, I'm confused. Did he or did he not, according to you, have sex with a 9-year old girl?

 

[Autodidact]

of course you did, like always. for the milionth time.

Well set me straight on the facts. I'm relying on you to teach me about Islam. Thanks.

 

[Autodidact]

Can someone clarify for me what's going on? Apparently I have trouble understanding eselam. According to Muslims, is Muhammed supposed to have had sex with a 9-year old girl? The prophet and founder of the religion? Is that right? Is that what eselam is defending?