Signs of The End: A Baha'i View

[savagewind]

Baha'u'llah is not just a reglar Man. He is the Manifestation of God

I am also a manifestation of God and so are you too. What makes Baha'u'llah different?

I am not sure what you asking. Please clarify

I ask how the man has given prominence or lack of prominence to what 'Jesus' said to pray for at Matthew 6:9-14? If you are right then we should stop praying for God's Kingdom to come as it has come in Baha'u'llah. And if he is God's manifestation why are children still enslaved, hungry, thirsty and dying?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Show me his miracles, surely he did many miracles right? I believe you have said he did and wrote them down, correct?

Regarding the Miracles, there has been many accounts regarding Baha’u’llah and the Bab, who are recorded by Baha’I Believers who lived in their time. You may go and find those in Books that are written by the early Baha’is. Some of them are also acknowledged by non-Baha’is. But our Scripture explicitly says, the Miracles can only be proofs for people who witness them, therefore we are forbidden to present them as proofs:

“I do not wish to mention the miracles of Bahá’u’lláh, for it may perhaps be said that these are traditions, liable both to truth and to error, like the accounts of the miracles of Christ in the Gospel, which come to us from the apostles, and not from anyone else, and are denied by the Jews. Though if I wish to mention the supernatural acts of Bahá’u’lláh, they are numerous; they are acknowledged in the Orient, and even by some non-Bahá’ís. But these narratives are not decisive proofs and evidences to all; the hearer might perhaps say that this account may not be in accordance with what occurred, for it is known that other sects recount miracles performed by their founders. For instance, the followers of Brahmanism relate miracles. From what evidence may we know that those are false and that these are true? If these are fables, the others also are fables; if these are generally accepted, so also the others are generally accepted. Consequently, these accounts are not satisfactory proofs. Yes, miracles are proofs for the eyewitness only, and even he may regard them not as a miracle but as an enchantment. Extraordinary feats have also been related of some conjurors.”

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-10.html

So, I leave that for you to find out, as Baha'u'llah had said, do not use Mirracles for proofs. The purpose of God, has been to open the spiritual eye of Mankind, not just to make them believe with some miracles.

Jesus said:

"A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign!" Mat 12:39

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I am also a manifestation of God and so are you too. What makes Baha'u'llah different?

I ask how the man has given prominence or lack of prominence to what 'Jesus' said to pray for at Matthew 6:9-14? If you are right then we should stop praying for God's Kingdom to come as it has come in Baha'u'llah. And if he is God's manifestation why are children still enslaved, hungry, thirsty and dying?

Dear SavageWind,

Regarding claiming being a Manifestation of God, is not enough to just claim it.
It is all about the actions and fulfillment.
But as it has taken you many years to learn about Jesus, be sure and certain, that it will even take you much more time to learn about Baha'u'llah and His revelation. Therefore please be patient firstly. That requires a careful study of His life, His effect on the World and Mankind, His teachings. His Writings alone are 17000 works! Which are infallible and irrefutable. While He has been in prison and exile no less than 40 years.
In fact, if you ask me, I would say, I believe if Baha'u'llah had not come, you and I did not exist.
Of course, this my belief, after studying the History, and the revelation of Baha'u'llah.
An Atheist likewise might say, he does not believe in God as the creator. But you and I believe God is the creator of Atheists too.
Moreover If I want to count the number of prophecies that are fulfilled by Him, It would take 100 of pages! Even the dates and years that has given by previous prophets come to the year of His revelation, considering that I am not even any scholar.

As to your question regarding coming of the Kingdom.
Baha'u'llah has declared the following:

"He is come in the sheltering shadow of Testimony, invested with conclusive proof and evidence, and those who truly believe in Him regard His presence as the embodiment of the Kingdom of God. Blessed is the man who turneth towards Him, and woe betide such as deny or doubt Him. "


Moreover He has said:

"We verily, have not fallen short of Our duty to exhort men, and to deliver that whereunto I was bidden by God, the Almighty, the All-Praised. Had they hearkened unto Me, they would have beheld the earth another earth." ... "Is there any excuse left for anyone in this Revelation? No, by God, the Lord of the Mighty Throne! My signs have encompassed the earth, and My power enveloped all mankind, and yet the people are wrapped in a strange sleep!"


As regarding to your question about saying the prayer in Matthew, The Baha'is believe that Day has come.

But what the mind of many people have imagined is that, when the Kingdom comes, instantly, everything becomes perfect.

That view is not Biblical, because:

Jesus described the Kingdom with following parable:

"Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal,
till the whole was leavened." Matthew 13:33


What this means is that, when the Word of God comes, meaning when the new teaching comes, then those teachings gradually effect the world, and fulfills the prophecies. Please note the term "leaven" as how it gradually effects, but not in one instance. Likewise other parables that Jesus gave, shows a gradual change.

 

[savagewind]

He is dead. What convincing evidence has he given unbelievers please?

Daniel 3
13 Furious with rage, Nebuchadnezzar summoned Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. So these men were brought before the king, 14 and Nebuchadnezzar said to them, “Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the image of gold I have set up?... 16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to him, “King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us[c] from Your Majesty’s hand. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up.”... 24 Then King Nebuchadnezzar leaped to his feet in amazement and asked his advisers, “Weren’t there three men that we tied up and threw into the fire?”

They replied, “Certainly, Your Majesty.”

25 He said, “Look! I see four men walking around in the fire, unbound and unharmed, and the fourth looks like a son of the gods.”...

28 Then Nebuchadnezzar said, “Praise be to the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, who has sent his angel and rescued his servants! They trusted in him and defied the king’s command and were willing to give up their lives rather than serve or worship any god except their own God.

What World leader do you know that fears God Almighty? And is it because of what "as Baha'u'llah had said"?

I shall ask you again, please, what nation on Earth is halting crimes against the children? Every nation that I know about are fighting about sovereignty and protecting their OWN sovereignty.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Dear SavageWind,

We need to consider the Prophecies of the Bible:

One of the signs given in Bible that should pass around the end:

"Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom." Mat 24:6

As you and I are witness (hopefully) the time that those kingdoms rose against each other is passed.
That was just prior to the Time of Baha'u'llah, when most countries had Kings who had the Power.
And if you read the Prophecies that Baha'u'llah did, as He wrote to those Kings, He told them, Soon your Kingdoms will vanish.

You can read some parts of those Writings of Baha'u'llah who wrote to Kings, and how they were fulfilled from the link:


Bahá'í prophecies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are there anymore Kingdom left to rise against each other. No, almost no countries have any Kings or Kingdoms anymore, except a few who are only symbolic. The kingdoms were up to the World Wars.
Once you start readying the History and Teachings of Baha'u'llah, I believe you will get your answers as I did.
I would recommend you read, the Book of Certitude, Book of Some Answered Questions first to start. For these Books are the Proofs.
Can you show any convincing proofs from Jesus other than His teachings in the Bible?
Moreover, these subjects are not in the Scope of this Thread. This thread is about the signs of the End time. For more learning or questions, please make a separate Thread, and we will discuss. Thank you.

 

[FearGod]

Dear SavageWind,

We need to consider the Prophecies of the Bible:

One of the signs given in Bible that should pass around the end:

"Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom." Mat 24:6

As you and I are witness (hopefully) the time that those kingdoms rose against each other is passed.
That was just prior to the Time of Baha'u'llah, when most countries had Kings who had the Power.
And if you read the Prophecies that Baha'u'llah did, as He wrote to those Kings, He told them, Soon your Kingdoms will vanish.

You can read some parts of those Writings of Baha'u'llah who wrote to Kings, and how they were fulfilled from the link:


Bahá'í prophecies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are there anymore Kingdom left to rise against each other. No, almost no countries have any Kings or Kingdoms anymore, except a few who are only symbolic. The kingdoms were up to the World Wars.
Once you start readying the History and Teachings of Baha'u'llah, I believe you will get your answers as I did.
I would recommend you read, the Book of Certitude, Book of Some Answered Questions first to start. For these Books are the Proofs.
Can you show any convincing proofs from Jesus other than His teachings in the Bible?
Moreover, these subjects are not in the Scope of this Thread. This thread is about the signs of the End time. For more learning or questions, please make a separate Thread, and we will discuss. Thank you.

Simply i can understand the differences between Christianity,Islam and Bahaullah as follow.

Christianity : Believe Jesus as son of god and as god in human body.
Islam : Jesus is just a messenger of god and he'll be back on end of times.
Bahaullah : Jesus is just a messenger of god and his 2nd coming have been already fulfilled through Bahaullah.

So i think we are discussing how to make 3 straight parallel lines going in opposite directions to meet on one point. which could never ever happen.

 

[Lady B]

Simply i can understand the differences between Christianity,Islam and Bahaullah as follow.

Christianity : Believe Jesus as son of god and as god in human body.
Islam : Jesus is just a messenger of god and he'll be back on end of times.
Bahaullah : Jesus is just a messenger of god and his 2nd coming have been already fulfilled through Bahaullah.

So i think we are discussing how to make 3 straight parallel lines going in opposite directions to meet on one point. which could never ever happen.

I agree completely we cannot ever meet ! This is my whole problem with Bahai'ism in that they claim we all agree and should become , or allready are a unitrian religion. This is baffling to me.
I will take your points a wee bit further....

Christianity: Jesus is The only begotten son of God, became a man ,was crucified, died and rose again after 3 days , ascended into heaven and sits on the right hand of God the father. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. This latter has not happened yet.

Islam: Jesus was a prophet of God ,equal to all prophets, unique only in that he was born of a virgin. He did not die at the cross but was raised up into heaven while decieving the witnesses in putting Judas in his stead. Jesus will return again in end times.

Bahai: Jesus was born by virgin birth, was God's son, but not his only son. was a manifestation of God, not God and not unique. He was crucified, however his incarnation was spiritual and not phisical. He (Jesus ) has returned again in a new name new body,new person a.k.a. Bahulalla


At least Islam and Christians believe Jesus is alive, real and will come again! Where is Bahulalla now?

 

[JustWondering]

The signs of the End and the Second Coming of Christ, in Baha'i View are already Passed and the Promised Ones appeared.
In previous scriptures such as Bible, Quran as well as Hinduism and Buddhism certain signs were given.

Please discuss if you believe any of the signs of the End has not passed yet.

Jesus has been back for years. He has a ministry in Florida.

[youtube]x-GU5r9E4D0[/youtube]
A controversial religious figure Dr Jose Luis De Jesus Miranda claims he is Jesus Christ - YouTube

 

[Lady B]

Jesus has been back for years. He has a ministry in Florida.

[youtube]x-GU5r9E4D0[/youtube]
A controversial religious figure Dr Jose Luis De Jesus Miranda claims he is Jesus Christ - YouTube

just shaking my head....

 

[CG Didymus]

You know your Baha'i stuff alright. I was both a Baha'i and a Born-again Christian like I mentioned earlier. I left the Baha'i Faith out of boredom. Where is the peace? When will the swords get beaten into plowshares? Whatever a plowshare is? I lived in Southern California and went with friends to Calvary Chapel on a Saturday night. The place was packed, about 3000 people. They had two bands and a short sermon. I went back to my Baha'i community of 12 people talking about how they were going to spread the word.

The Baha'i Faith is awesome, but it is so small. Where is the big prophecies--Jesus riding in on his white horse to kick the devil's butt? All eyes shall see him? Forget about kingdoms, when are nations and religions going to stop fighting? There is still wars and rumors of wars, so that means the end isn't here yet. Please if Baha'u'llah is the answer, do it already. Other than you, what are the Baha'i's doing? Waiting for Jesus?

 

[KeeperofSecrets]

Well, the way Baha'i Scriptures explain these, is that, as you also mentioned, they cannot be literal, because for example It is explained how stars are significantly bigger than the earth, and it's not possible for these stars to find space on earth.

Moreover, these terms, such as stars are used in previous scriptures, such as Old Testament, and had a symbolic meaning. Then Baha'u'llah explains that, these verses have several meaning hidden in them.
On One hand He explains that by stars is meant, the divines and religious leaders who are considered as fallen stars in the sight of God, as they won't give spiritual guidance anymore, but only outwardly they appear to be leaders.
Then He goes on and explains, Moon and the Sun, signify the spiritual teachings of previous dispensations that become darkened, meaning they become faded.
Then he explains, by “oppression" is meant a feeling of not being able to find True Guidance, as everyone would give different religious doctrines, and people feel confused and spiritually oppressed as what is the truth.
Then He goes on and explains, by appearing the sign of the son of man in the Heaven, it is intended two meanings. One is the outward meaning, just like when before Jesus came the first time, a "star" literally appeared in the sky then Maggies saw that and came to worship Him. Likewise in His second coming similar thing happened, and he said recently a star was actually seen just before Baha'u'llah's appearance.
Then there is also an inner meaning as, the sign of sun of Man, refers to the person who gives the glad tiding before the Promised One. For example, for Jesus it was the John the Baptist who appeared in the Heaven of Divine revelation before Jesus, likewise for Baha'u'llah it was the Bab who appeared and gave the glad tiding of the coming of the Promised One.

And then He goes on and explains All these signs are the requirement for every True Messenger, and explains that for Moses and Muhammad similar things had happened.
He then explains, the meaning of "Cloud of Heaven" and other Terms.
I let you read these yourself from page 24 of the Book of Certitude:

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 3-41

IDK ! Maybe it could also be in reference, stars falling to the planet , to cosmic rays. Photons and the study of are a big deal in reading our galaxy and surroundings.

(edit)As an after thought it could be talking about a visitors.

 

[KeeperofSecrets]

You cannot see this as not being possible that the Buddha didn't teach of the oneness of god because you're viewing the info through your own religion's lenses. It's impossible to see what's there and what's not when you refuse to accept the reality in front of you. It's also easier to accept your point of view when all you have to say is "well, the original teachings were lost," because, if that being the case, they can't be found. I personally have no reason to think that what we have as the Buddha's teachings is not the originals.



The eternal debate. I don't see how the existence of god is possible.



I have no comment on this.



We just disagree in how they are figurative.




I think this is a great ideal, but like all ideals, fail from a practical perspective. First, you alienate traditional followers of the various religions by giving new interpretations to their teachings. Second, you take away all individuality, which is one of my main problems with Christianity and Islam. I think the reason why there are so many various religions with their various teachings and practices, is because we're not all the same. Each person gets to decide and choose for themselves what religion fits them best, because, in the end, they all lead to the same place. If one wants to be a Baha'i, then that's fine. If one wants to be something else, then this is fine too, because they're going to get to the same place.

I have no problem with various religions, their interpretations of events and scriptures, or religious syncretism. However, as a Buddhist, when someone of another faith gives their interpretation on Buddhist scriptures and teachings, I do feel the need to speak up, and give a proper Buddhist view on what these things mean, so that any hearers can make an informed decision, instead of just relying on what one person says, especially when that person is not part of the original religion that he is presuming to give interpretations on.

History has a tendencies to over time distort and be destroyed. Looking at ancient artifacts, could of just came across a people that may have influenced Buddhists, the west, south, east and north, in other cultures. The origin possibly lost, and the whole of the belief distorted by interpetations of those people of that era. Could be possible that over the globe people traveled with their beliefs and influenced those they came in contact with. So its also possible why there were so many similiarities in alot of religions and beliefs. That they even came in contact with one another and that evidence could of been destroyed as well. Like the crusaders.. taken over a religion and belief that only took to saving what they wanted for their own belief and destroying all the other parts of that culture. We seem to be doing that today as well and seems to fit with why people are taking parts of a belief and making it their own. The same can be said about gays and other ideas of freedom and expression on their views and incorporating it into their religion and culture, lifestyle. Often times those who do not accept anothers lifestyle, will try and convert and destroy that which differs from their ways of thinking. So the origin gets destroyed and distorted.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Simply i can understand the differences between Christianity,Islam and Bahaullah as follow.

Christianity : Believe Jesus as son of god and as god in human body.
Islam : Jesus is just a messenger of god and he'll be back on end of times.
Bahaullah : Jesus is just a messenger of god and his 2nd coming have been already fulfilled through Bahaullah.

So i think we are discussing how to make 3 straight parallel lines going in opposite directions to meet on one point. which could never ever happen.

Dear FearGod,

The Baha'i Scriptures has shown with clear evidence, that the differences are only due to misinterpretations of the Books.
I believe I have shown in this thread, with enough sources from Bible and Quran, to make this point.
While I have not seen any Biblical argument, or Quranic argument, that disproves it. A Fair Judgement is Required though.


Had the followers of Christianity or Islam interpreted the Books correctly, there would not be so many Christian denominations, or Islam sects. If we think about it, theses sects are made-up, due to different interpretations. The main difference between these people is due to different interpretations. They cannot even agree with each other.

And if we read the History of Messengers of God, which are described in Bible and Quran, it is clear every time they appeared, most people failed to recognize them.


You have written:

Christianity : Believe Jesus as son of god and as god in human body.
Islam : Jesus is just a messenger of god and he'll be back on end of times.
Bahaullah : Jesus is just a messenger of god and his 2nd coming have been already fulfilled through Bahaullah.

My response:

Christianity should believe in what the Bible says, and should consider all parts of Bible, including when it says, Jesus is a Prophet, and Jesus is an image of God.
Islam should believe as Quran says; "some of its verses are figurative, and non knows its interpretations except God.
Baha'i Faith: Both Quran and Bible says the same thing about Jesus and other Messengers. (As I have shown this with clear verses from Quran and Bible), and End Times Has passed!

 

[FearGod]

Dear FearGod,

The Baha'i Scriptures has shown with clear evidence, that the differences are only due to misinterpretations of the Books.
I believe I have shown in this thread, with enough sources from Bible and Quran, the interpretation that explains the proper interpretations.

Had the followers of Christianity or Islam interpreted the Books correctly, there would not be so many Christian denominations, or Islam sects. The main difference between these people is due to different interpretations. They cannot even agree with each other.

And if we read the History of Messengers of God, which are described in Bible and Quran, it is clear every time they appeared, most people failed to recognize them.

Dear Investigatetruth,

So do you think that the 2nd coming of Jesus pbuh through the manifestation of Bahaullah had failed to unify all religions.

What is the purpose of his coming,muslims are still muslims,christians are still christians.

Can you explain what Bahaullah did achieve and what is his effect on our recent world.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

At least Islam and Christians believe Jesus is alive, real and will come again! Where is Bahulalla now?

Dear LadyB,

If We read the Bible, we see the teachings of Jesus has been fundamentally spiritual, not materialistic. Even as He said: "You must be born of Spirit" and "There is Spiritual Body and Natural Body"

The Messengers of God, had spoken of spiritual resurrection, not physical.
But as the people have been materialistic, they always hoped for a physical resurrection. Because they just have difficulty believing in God and His Messengers, if it was only about spirituality. Therefore they need to believe in something physical, as it is difficult to have spiritual eye.
Even as it was revealed in Quran:

"And when Our clear verses are recited to them, their only argument is to say, ‘Bring back our fathers, if ye speak the truth!’" Qur’án 45:24

"... They scoffed at the verses, a single letter of which is greater than the creation of heavens and earth, and which quickeneth the dead of the valley of self and desire with the spirit of faith; and clamoured saying: "Cause our fathers to speed out of their sepulchres." Such was the perversity and pride of that people" Baha'u'llah



His Holiness Jesus, has ascended spiritually, not physically.
Even as it is recorded such words in Bible: "Kingdom of God cannot accept Flash and Blood" and "My kingdom is not of this world"
Therefore we need to ponder a little. It is only appealing for people to say our Prophet is alive and others are not.

Baha'u'llah has thought us, in order to see the truth, we need to be clean from every bias and fanatisim.

All Messengers of God have ascended to the Heaven. The story of Jesus ascending to heaven is symbolic and needs to be interpreted properly.

His Holiness Baha'u'llah explained in the Book of Certitude, the purpose of the Books of God containing symbolic terms:

"Know verily that the purpose underlying all these symbolic terms and abstruse allusions, which emanate from the Revealers of God’s holy Cause, hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world; that thereby the earth of the pure and illuminated hearts may be known from the perishable and barren soil. From time immemorial such hath been the way of God amidst His creatures, and to this testify the records of the sacred books."

The same was in Bible:

PROVERBS 17:3 NKJ
3 . . . the Lord tests the hearts.

2 CORINTHIANS 2:9 NKJ
9 For to this end I also wrote, that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things.

 

[savagewind]

There is a problem with the Baha'u'llah being the world's savior. It seems to me one must read him to be saved. But not everyone can read.

 

[FearGod]

I agree completely we cannot ever meet ! This is my whole problem with Bahai'ism in that they claim we all agree and should become , or allready are a unitrian religion. This is baffling to me.
I will take your points a wee bit further....

Christianity: Jesus is The only begotten son of God, became a man ,was crucified, died and rose again after 3 days , ascended into heaven and sits on the right hand of God the father. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. This latter has not happened yet.

Islam: Jesus was a prophet of God ,equal to all prophets, unique only in that he was born of a virgin. He did not die at the cross but was raised up into heaven while decieving the witnesses in putting Judas in his stead. Jesus will return again in end times.

Bahai: Jesus was born by virgin birth, was God's son, but not his only son. was a manifestation of God, not God and not unique. He was crucified, however his incarnation was spiritual and not phisical. He (Jesus ) has returned again in a new name new body,new person a.k.a. Bahulalla


At least Islam and Christians believe Jesus is alive, real and will come again! Where is Bahulalla now?

Correct,but i have a notice regarding the person who was crucified instead of Jesus pbuh as there are different stories but i believe most on the story which says that the spy who was following him have been crucified and that may explain his crying at the cross in Matthew 27:45-46 "Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour. 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"

So i think that the spy was calling for the real Jesus to save him and crying why he left him. as Jesus pbuh known to be merciful,but at this moments that was god action against the spy man,that remind me with Pharoa when he also cry for god of Moses pbuh,but that was useless,as he was among the disbelievers.

[youtube]Dop5QqEg334[/youtube]
Pharaoh and Prophet Moses in Quran - YouTube

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Dear FearGod,

The stories that another one was crucified instead of Jesus, are all man-made.
God, has forbidden in Quran, that no one should add anything to His Book, and says, that is from God.

Although, that subject is not directly related to the thread, but I will give you the essential meaning and purpose of the things Christ had said on the Cross from Baha'i Scriptures:

"Remind them of these words and say unto them: ‘Verily did the Pharisees rise up against Messiah, despite the bright beauty of His face and all His comeliness, and they cried out that He was not Messiah [Masíh] but a monster [Masíkh], because He had claimed to be Almighty God, the sovereign Lord of all, and told them, ‘I am God’s Son, and verily in the inmost being of His only Son, His mighty Ward, clearly revealed with all His attributes, all His perfections, standeth the Father.’

This, they said, was open blasphemy and slander against the Lord according to the clear and irrefutable texts of the Old Testament. Therefore they passed the sentence upon Him, decreeing that His blood be shed, and they hanged Him on the cross, where He cried out,

‘O My beloved Lord, how long wilt Thou abandon Me to them? Lift Me up unto Thee, shelter Me close to Thee, make Me a dwelling by Thy throne of glory. Verily art Thou the Answerer of prayers, and Thou art the Clement, the Merciful. O My Lord! Verily this world with all its vastness can no longer contain Me, and I love this cross, out of love for Thy beauty, and yearning for Thy realm on high, and because of this fire, fanned by the gusts of Thy holiness, aflame within My heart. Help me, O Lord, to ascend unto Thee, sustain Me that I may reach unto Thy sacred Threshold, O My loving Lord! Verily Thou art the Merciful, the Possessor of great bounty! Verily Thou art the Generous! Verily Thou art the Compassionate! Verily Thou art the All-Knowing! There is none other God save Thee, the Mighty, the Powerful!’"

Selections From the Writings of Abdulbaha

 

[FearGod]

Dear FearGod,

The stories that another one was crucified instead of Jesus, are all man-made.
God, has forbidden in Quran, that no one should add anything to His Book, and says, that is from God.

Although, that subject is not directly related to the thread, but I will give you the essential meaning and purpose of the things Christ had said on the Cross from Baha'i Scriptures:

"Remind them of these words and say unto them: ‘Verily did the Pharisees rise up against Messiah, despite the bright beauty of His face and all His comeliness, and they cried out that He was not Messiah [Masíh] but a monster [Masíkh], because He had claimed to be Almighty God, the sovereign Lord of all, and told them, ‘I am God’s Son, and verily in the inmost being of His only Son, His mighty Ward, clearly revealed with all His attributes, all His perfections, standeth the Father.’

This, they said, was open blasphemy and slander against the Lord according to the clear and irrefutable texts of the Old Testament. Therefore they passed the sentence upon Him, decreeing that His blood be shed, and they hanged Him on the cross, where He cried out,

‘O My beloved Lord, how long wilt Thou abandon Me to them? Lift Me up unto Thee, shelter Me close to Thee, make Me a dwelling by Thy throne of glory. Verily art Thou the Answerer of prayers, and Thou art the Clement, the Merciful. O My Lord! Verily this world with all its vastness can no longer contain Me, and I love this cross, out of love for Thy beauty, and yearning for Thy realm on high, and because of this fire, fanned by the gusts of Thy holiness, aflame within My heart. Help me, O Lord, to ascend unto Thee, sustain Me that I may reach unto Thy sacred Threshold, O My loving Lord! Verily Thou art the Merciful, the Possessor of great bounty! Verily Thou art the Generous! Verily Thou art the Compassionate! Verily Thou art the All-Knowing! There is none other God save Thee, the Mighty, the Powerful!’"

Selections From the Writings of Abdulbaha

So do you think that Jesus pbuh should cry in loud voice for god to hear him,and what it means that Jesus love the cross and asking god to shelter him at the same time.

Please explain to me this point to go further on this verse

 

[Lady B]

Correct,but i have a notice regarding the person who was crucified instead of Jesus pbuh as there are different stories but i believe most on the story which says that the spy who was following him have been crucified and that may explain his crying at the cross in Matthew 27:45-46 "Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour. 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?"

So i think that the spy was calling for the real Jesus to save him and crying why he left him. as Jesus pbuh known to be merciful,but at this moments that was god action against the spy man,that remind me with Pharoa when he also cry for god of Moses pbuh,but that was useless,as he was among the disbelievers.

[youtube]Dop5QqEg334[/youtube]
Pharaoh and Prophet Moses in Quran - YouTube

In all due respect: let us reason together shall we? If God foretold in the old testament what he would do, that his son would die on a tree, that he would be a ransom for all our sin, do you really think in the end he would change his mind? And deceive us all? Christ had one purpose, to redeem us, to propitiate, to save what was lost. The plan was God's alone. He would not chicken out in last minute and give a substitute. Jesus was God and man, he humbled himself to become man, therefore he had a human fear of the death and torture he was about to endure, was not sin, for he never sinned, it was a human emotion. However he followed God's will till the end.
As for his cry. Let us imagine for a moment...Christ Who was 100% god, 100% man, who was prior to becoming man one with the father, who lived loved created knew the father, now he is on the cross, separated from his father from the sin he took upon himself for our sake. "a man who knew no sin, became sin for us". God cannot look upon sin, he can't, he is far too holy. In this death, Jesus was actually separated from a holy God, His own father, for our sake. God had to turn from him! How ghastly! Can you imagine? And so Christ screamed out, Oh my God , My God, how has thou forsaken me? What torture this must have been....

God did not give in and place a substitute to die for all mans sin, Jesus did die, an awful death, but that is not the good news people. The good news is that he conquered death. So that we all can live! Praise God!