South Carolina OKs ban on gender affirming care.

[Shadow Wolf]

@icehorse
By the way, double blind studies are the optimal research method. Having just a control group won't produce as good data as a double blind study.
But it's obviously incredibly difficult, even impossible to do that if the study doesn't involve swallowing pills.
Do you think anthropology is also poor quakity data?
What of research evaluating parenting styles?
Studies on breast feeding?
What about the Stanford Prison Experiment? It was an ethics disaster, but it's control groupless observations have been seen outside in the real world.

 

[libre]

A good example of what happens when little kids are put through these abusive procedures is Chloe Cole. Doctors cut off her breasts when she was only 12 years old. She is now a "de-transitioner" at age 19, and is speaking out about what she was put through.

This woman claims she was not treated according to the standards defined by WPATH.
This is an instance of malpractice, and not a condemnation of established standards.

That she is using her experience to justify legal restrictions that contradict the standards of care is wildly slanted and politically motivated.

 

[Heyo]

And I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Koldo:
What's the goal of any of these interventions in the first place?
I promise I will tell you what I think the goal is, but I'd like to hear your answer first.

The goal is to recognize that people (and children are people) have agency.
Your goal and that of the lawmakers is to deny the agency. The agency of the patient and the expertise of the doctors and psychologists. The only party here, who is using force, is the government. As I said before, it is a power demonstration.

 

[icehorse]

I'll ask you all again:

If a kid has GD, what's the goal of any therapeutic or medical intervention?

 

[Father Heathen]

I'll ask you all again:

If a kid has GD, what's the goal of any therapeutic or medical intervention?

We'll answer you again:

As with any medical condition, to address and alleviate it.

 

[icehorse]

We'll answer you again:

As with any medical condition, to address and alleviate it.

IMO you are the first person brave enough to give the correct answer! thank you!

 

[Laniakea]

This woman claims she was not treated according to the standards defined by WPATH.
This is an instance of malpractice, and not a condemnation of established standards.

That she is using her experience to justify legal restrictions that contradict the standards of care is wildly slanted and politically motivated.

Cutting off the breasts of a 12 year old girl in order to turn her into a boy is always malpractice.

 

[Father Heathen]

IMO you are the first person brave enough to give the correct answer! thank you!

Uh, okay?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Cutting off the breasts of a 12 year old girl in order to turn her into a boy is always malpractice.

There are literally hundreds of times more underage cis girls getting breast augmentation than there are trans kids getting radical masectomies. I, as a cisgender girl, had more hormone treatment than trans kids, too. I also had a reduction that wasn't considered medical as a minor.

Standard of care for trans minors is overwhelmingly lifestyle changes, counseling and sometimes hormones. Way less medical intervention than I had.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Exactly. The way psychiatry has changed their approach to trans is not because of “science” but due to trans activism.

You don’t gain insight into the mind in a classroom or in conferences. Psychiatry will face their reckoning over this issue after the gender specialists.

Nonsense. People said the exact same thing when homosexuality was removed from the DSM in 1973.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Nonsense. People said the exact same thing when homosexuality was removed from the DSM in 1973.

Sexuality and gender are two separate categories. What is the scientific breakthrough that changed the mind of the APA in 2012? How are they not simply holding their finger to the wind?

 

[libre]

There are literally hundreds of times more underage cis girls getting breast augmentation than there are trans kids getting radical masectomies. I, as a cisgender girl, had more hormone treatment than trans kids, too. I also had a reduction that wasn't considered medical as a minor.

Standard of care for trans minors is overwhelmingly lifestyle changes, counseling and sometimes hormones. Way less medical intervention than I had.

Yep.
HRT meds are fine with these people as long as it's nothing to do with that gender stuff. Then mysteriously it's unsafe and dangerous.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sexuality and gender are two separate categories. What is the scientific breakthrough that changed the mind of the APA in 2012? How are they not simply holding their finger to the wind?

Again, hardly anything changed then. The biggest of the change was changing Gender Identity Dysphoria into Gender Dysphoria for the DSM V.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Again, hardly anything changed then. The biggest of the change was changing Gender Identity Dysphoria into Gender Dysphoria for the DSM V.

You mean Gender Identity Disorder, right? It seems like Psychiatry decided then in 2012 that a young person identifying as trans should no longer be given a red light but a yellow light. Since then, the yellow light is turning more into a green light.

I will ask again: are trans activists affirming young tomboys as females and young, effeminate boys as males? Is that part of the agenda? Doesn’t seem like it to me. Anybody who does do that they call a bigot.

Are these young tomboys and effeminate boys who now identify as trans better off for it? They get short term meaning through a community which showers them in celebratory affirmation, but young people don’t have the wisdom to know that this type of meaning doesn’t sustain because there’s no lasting meaning derived from gender identity.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You mean Gender Identity Disorder, right? It seems like Psychiatry decided then in 2012 that a young person identifying as trans should no longer be given a red light but a yellow light. Since then, the yellow light is turning more into a green light.

What do you mean by red light, yellow light?

are trans activists affirming young tomboys as females and young, effeminate boys as males?

Yes.

I will ask again: are trans activists affirming young tomboys as females and young, effeminate boys as males? Is that part of the agenda? Doesn’t seem like it to me. Anybody who does do that they call a bigot.

Are these young tomboys and effeminate boys who now identify as trans better off for it?

Tomboys and effiminate guys aren't trans or transitioning. I still know lots of them too.
This view of trans and tomboys and effiminate guys is a very old amd very untrue stereotype.

but young people don’t have the wisdom to know that this type of meaning doesn’t sustain because there’s no lasting meaning derived from gender identity.

If downplaying someone's ability and capability "for their protection" is a point, then you don't really have a point.
Actually look into why the APA went from GID to GD.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

This is going to be a difficult problem for years to come because (1) there are competing values (2) young people are affected (3) each side is suspicious of the other side’s underlying, perhaps unconscious, motivations.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is going to be a difficult problem for years to come because (1) there are competing values (2) young people are affected (3) each side is suspicious of the other side’s underlying, perhaps unconscious, motivations.

That's why it's best to butt out, leave it alone, and let patients and caretakers decide instead if you and politicians.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

That's why it's best to butt out, leave it alone, and let patients and caretakers decide instead if you and politicians.

Nice try.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Nice try.

Which, of course, is not in anyway a challenge or rebuttal.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You seem to be conflating sex and gender here, is that correct?

In any case, I'm mostly concerned with your category "a", and for all intents and purposes, your claim is wrong. The fact that there are a few rare individuals with medical conditions does not mean that sex is not binary. Sex is binary.

No, that is exactly what it means. The very existence of intersex people demonstrates that genetic sex is not binary.

Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic

Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male

www.scientificamerican.com

My reading of the bill is that it's limited to kids who "feel" GD. I do not think it addresses the rare, intersex sorts of conditions you're bringing up.



Thousands of kids are experiencing GD. Many of them can only be hurt (for a lifetime) and not helped, if they go thru GAC drugs.

Again you seem to think that GAC is all about surgeries and drugs when it can be something as simple as just dressing as the person wishes and being addressed as they wish to be addressed, They don't just dive right into surgeries the minute any kid shows any sign of gender dysphoria. Another good reason that this stuff should be left up to the experts and not random laypeople.


“First I’d just like to make sure that we clarify the different types of transitions. Because we’ve talked about, there’s no medical intervention. So, Avery socially transitioned at the age of four. So it was just name, pronouns, hair, saying daughter instead of son. Before we did that kind of affirmation, Avery was depressed, talked about death all the time, and actually tried to jump out of our car – at four. She just could not handle it. Doing that kind of social affirmation gave us a kid who smiled again, who said ‘mommy I love you’ all the time. We have a whole year, between three and four, where we don’t have a photo of Avery smiling. And that changed just through social affirmation. So when people call us child abusers and say it’s horrible to do this, they don’t understand the realities.”

“It was completely out of my realm of understanding. I was very conservative, evangelical, you know, Southern Baptist, GOP. But at the age of four, Avery said, ‘Mom you think that I am a boy, but I’m a girl. I’m a girl on the inside,’ and very directly told us. We had no idea what that meant. It was out of our thinking. We thought maybe we have a confused gay boy… We wanted to ask questions. We talked to doctors. We went to the endocrinologists just to check the XX, XYs, all the things. And we had to come to understand that our child knew who they were. And mind you they’re 15 now. This was more than a decade ago. They weren’t influenced by TikTok. They weren’t on Facebook.”

– Debi Jackson, PTEC Parent

ICYMI: Watch Jon Stewart Debunk Anti-Trans Myths about Gender Affirming Care

Watch Jon Stewart’s Take Down

www.hrc.org