South Carolina OKs ban on gender affirming care.

[Laniakea]

It's actually 1% when you turn to a medical resource, and we must kmkw why there is regret. A lack of support, access to care amd discrimination are the biggest causes of regret.

Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Prevalence - PMC

Supplemental Digital Content is available in the text.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sure, it's everyone else's fault. Never the patient, never the doctor or the systemic predatory practices of the Pharmaceutical industry. Sure!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sure, it's everyone else's fault. Never the patient, never the doctor or the systemic predatory practices of the Pharmaceutical industry. Sure!

That statement is not logical. It's everyone else's fault but it's not exactlh everyone else's fault apparently?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

So you're admitting that at least half of them don't feel that they were properly informed before going through transition. We're off to a good start now. Blaming it on "accessibility to mental healthcare" is a shifting of blame.

Half of detransitioners feel like they didn't have proper evaluation by doctors. And it is absolutely not shifting the blame to say 'yeah, that is the quintessential American experience.' All three of my major diagnosis in life were ones I discovered through my own research and contacts and brought to doctors. Doctors who had misidentified or ignored symptoms because education and training on women's health is especially poor. To say nothing of critically underfunded and poorly accessed mental healthcare.

But the solution isn't to stop healthcare for trans people, it's to make it more accessible, with more knowledgable specialists, at prices patients can afford. So nobody feels like they had a one and done evaluation, and where you can shop around doctors and second opinions without waiting years and breaking the bank.

Again, the majority of detransitioners want more gender affirming care accessibility, not less.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

A third is hardly a very low rate: https://www.newsmax.com/health/health-news/detransitioners-gender-care/2022/12/22/id/1101549/

""Many have said their gender identity remained fluid well after the start of treatment, and a third of them expressed regret about their decision to transition from the gender they were assigned at birth."

This is still not a correct assessment. It's a third of the 40 people who were interviewed who stopped or reverted transition, not a third of all trans people. Literally the only people who interviewed for this study were detransitioners.

This is like saying half of people with hip replacements regret it when in reality it's half of people who had revision surgery regretted having the original surgery. You're taking a fraction of a fraction and saying it's a fraction of the whole.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

If a trans person transitions in their early teens, does not regret the decision, and continues to be on HRT into adulthood: am I really supposed to be incredibly torn up about the fact that they *may* have grown out of it if they had decided not to transition?

If you can be bothered to do the any reading about transition regret, see page 118 which is page 137 in the following pdf.
https://epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf

Someone in a years long abusive relationship often doesn’t regret their decision to be in that relationship while they are still in the relationship. Should we still view the abused person through the lens of moral relativism?

For someone who has a strong transgender identity, with so much invested, we shouldn’t expect that they are transparently revealing the truth of their deeper conscience.

 

[Samael_Khan]

From APnews: South Carolina House OKs ban on gender-affirming care for minors, Missouri panel sees similar bills
This bill blocks puberty blockers and hormones from minors, however as previously predicted, it was never just about minors.

"People under 26 could not use Medicaid to cover the costs for such care, and school employees could not withhold knowledge of a student’s transgender identity from their legal guardians."

Additionally, forcing schools to out LGBT youth to their parents is truly evil.

I never understood peoples opposition to trans issues. I honestly don't care about trans issues as much as I dont care about gay issues as much as I dont care about straight issues. They are people to me and they can do what they wish and I care about their issues if they are my friends and things affect them.

The big irony of bills like this is that the same people who support them will say they dont want government involved in peoples family lives. Yet they care about what is happening to other people, and want government to mandate what these other people do, as other peoples lives are so important to them that they want to interfere with their medical decisions.

So in reality they don't want government to interefere in their own choices because they want freedom. But they dont want other people to have freedom if their opinions disagree with them, then they think government interference is good.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I never understood peoples opposition to trans issues. I honestly don't care about trans issues as much as I dont care about gay issues as much as I dont care about straight issues. They are people to me and they can do what they wish and I care about their issues if they are my friends and things affect them.

The big irony of bills like this is that the same people who support them will say they dont want government involved in peoples family lives. Yet they care about what is happening to other people, and want government to mandate what these other people do, as other peoples lives are so important to them that they want to interfere with their medical decisions.

So in reality they don't want government to interefere in their own choices because they want freedom. But they dont want other people to have freedom if their opinions disagree with them, then they think government interference is good.

Some of us don’t have the moral luxury of pretending minors are the same as adults and wiping our hands clean of this issue.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Some of us don’t have the moral luxury of pretending minors are the same as adults and wiping our hands clean of this issue.

Well do you have an alternative solution to their issues? If I think it is immoral for minors to be indoctrinated into religion because of the cognitive harm it causes, should we then say government should ban parents from teaching their religion to their kids before they reach 25?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Well do you have an alternative solution to their issues? If I think it is immoral for minors to be indoctrinated into religion because of the cognitive harm it causes, should we then say government should ban parents from teaching their religion to their kids before they reach 25?

That’s an invalid comparison. This isn’t about banning parents from teaching their children trans ideology. Do you know what thread you’re in?

A better comparison is the illegality of tattoos for minors in certain states in the U.S.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That’s an invalid comparison. This isn’t about banning parents from teaching their children trans ideology. Do you know what thread you’re in?

A better comparison is the illegality of tattoos for minors in certain states in the U.S.

Do you believe all medical intervention for minors should be illegal?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Do you believe all medical intervention for minors should be illegal?

I probably hold the opinion that a child who was just in a serious car accident should be left to die, right? Derp.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I probably hold the opinion that a child who was just in a serious car accident should be left to die, right? Derp.

Right, so obviously you accept that there are SOME invasive procedures necessary for children, right?

Do you believe, for example, it can sometimes be necessary to prescribe children medication, under medical advice?

Heck, we'll even use your comparison to tattoos. Let's say there is a special kind of tattoo that actually can provide a significant benefit to a child's mental health, and that this tattoo can be given under medical supervision after a formal diagnosis and with a thorough study of the child determining it medically necessary. Would you be against a child being given one of those tattoos under those circumstances?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Right, so obviously you accept that there are SOME invasive procedures necessary for children, right?

Do you believe, for example, it can sometimes be necessary to prescribe children medication, under medical advice?

Heck, we'll even use your comparison to tattoos. Let's say there is a special kind of tattoo that actually can provide a significant benefit to a child's mental health, and that this tattoo can be given under medical supervision after a formal diagnosis and with a thorough study of the child determining it medically necessary. Would you be against a child being given one of those tattoos under those circumstances?

I don’t share your naivety on this issue. You’re not going to move me.

 

[Samael_Khan]

That’s an invalid comparison. This isn’t about banning parents from teaching their children trans ideology. Do you know what thread you’re in?

A better comparison is the illegality of tattoos for minors in certain states in the U.S.

Of course this is tied to combatting trans ideology.

Its just the same as religious ideology having practical consequences for minors.

What I am referring to is minors making decisions that permanently alter their lives. The trans stuff potentially causes harm medically. The religious stuff potentially causes harm medically, ie, not taking covid vaccines, faith healing rather than going to a doctor, not taking blood transfusions or organ transplants. The ideologies behind these practices are important.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I don’t share your naivety on this issue. You’re not going to move me.

You're not really understanding my argument, and you failed to answer my question. What is naive about it?

Do you or do you not understand that there are medical procedures - even invasive ones - that can be given under best medical recommendation to minors? Yes or no?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Of course this is tied to combatting trans ideology.

Its just the same as religious ideology having practical consequences for minors.

What I am referring to is minors making decisions that permanently alter their lives. The trans stuff potentially causes harm medically. The religious stuff potentially causes harm medically, ie, not taking covid vaccines, faith healing rather than going to a doctor, not taking blood transfusions or organ transplants. The ideologies behind these practices are important.

I’m not in favor of using state force to combat trans ideology by usurping parents’ rights. I was the one defending the rights of parents earlier in the thread, so again, your assumption and comparison is invalid.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I’m not in favor of using state force to combat trans ideology by usurping parents’ rights. I was the one defending the rights of parents earlier in the thread, so again, your assumption and comparison is invalid.

But would you be against using state force to prevent minors from getting access to gender affirming care, even against the overwhelming consensus of medical expertise and recommendation?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

You're not really understanding my argument, and you failed to answer my question. What is naive about it?

Do you or do you not understand that there are medical procedures - even invasive ones - that can be given under best medical recommendation to minors? Yes or no?

The idea that GAC is the best way to treat the minds of trans minors is what I called naive.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The idea that GAC is the best way to treat the minds of trans minors is what I called naive.

I never said it was, I asked a simple hypothetical about tattoos and straightforward yes/no question about invasive medical procedures on minors.

But, considering the overwhelming consensus of medical experts agree that it is the best way to treat trans minors, I think the naive position would be call all those people wrong. When you subvert best medical practice in favour of ideology, you are naively favouring emotions over facts.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I never said it was, I asked a simple hypothetical about tattoos and straightforward yes/no question about invasive medical procedures on minors.

But, considering the overwhelming consensus of medical experts agree that it is the best way to treat trans minors, I think the naive position would be call all those people wrong. When you subvert best medical practice in favour of ideology, you are naively favouring emotions over facts.

When you create an institution to function as a hammer, it’s going to look for nails. When you create an institution of gender specialists…