Students Are Pushing Back Against Gender Ideology In Their Schools

[fantome profane]

I was saying my biology and social identity matches.

Which is really convenient for you isn't it. You can insist that people address you according to your social identity and pretend if is for another reason. And you can refuse to acknowledge the social identity of others just because you like being rude.

 

[Shaul]

Yet you feel entitled to demand that everyone else adhere to your personal take on how to define male gender and sex.

Wrong. It isn't my personal take. It is a science-based definition used by the NIH.

 

[Shaul]

It's not a time tested definition. We haven't even known about chromosomes that long as they weren't discovered until 1905.
And I'm not agitated. I'm just pointing out your trying twist science to fit how you want things to be. But Nature is obligated to give us nothing, it is sloppy and messy, it is not black and white, yet you try to claim it's crystal clear. But it's not.

It is quite clear. Males have a Y chromosome. Accept it or do not. It is still true.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is quite clear. Males have a Y chromosome. Accept it or do not. It is still true.

If its clear then what us X, XX/XY, XXX and XY gonadal dysgenesis?

 

[Copernicus]

Wrong. It isn't my personal take. It is a science-based definition used by the NIH.

No, it has been made clear to you that the NIH does not take the extreme position that you do on gender and sex. Instead, the NIH recognizes the difficulty in treating sex and gender as a strict binary categorization. Your response to that has simply been to repeat your debunked claim that there is some official NIH "science-based definition" that supports your claim. Argument by repetition.

 

[Shaul]

No, it has been made clear to you that the NIH does not take the extreme position that you do on gender and sex. Instead, the NIH recognizes the difficulty in treating sex and gender as a strict binary categorization. Your response to that has simply been to repeat your debunked claim that there is some official NIH "science-based definition" that supports your claim. Argument by repetition.

So you are saying that your profile is a lie when it says you are a male.

 

[Copernicus]

So you are saying that your profile is a lie when it says you are a male.

I have said nothing about my profile, my gender, or my sexuality, since that is irrelevant to the discussion. I have no problem with you or anyone else representing themselves as a heterosexual male or female or denying that they fit comfortably into either category.

 

[Shaul]

I have said nothing about my profile, my gender, or my sexuality, since that is irrelevant to the discussion. I have no problem with you or anyone else representing themselves as a heterosexual male or female or denying that they fit comfortably into either category.

In your profile you state that you are male. But you refuse to provide a independently verifiable definition for male. Your words have no meaning.

 

[Kfox]

Ah, so you are not against using pronouns that match social identity instead of biology?

Again; I use pronouns based on biology.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But you refuse to provide a independently verifiable definition for male.

A miserable little pile of secrets.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Wrong. It isn't my personal take. It is a science-based definition used by the NIH.

Yes, and again here it is for sex:
"

Sex​

Sex is a multidimensional biological construct based on anatomy, physiology, genetics, and hormones. (These components are sometimes referred to together as “sex traits.”)[2] All animals (including humans) have a sex. As is common across health research communities, NIH usually categorizes sex as male or female, although variations do occur. These variations are called differences in sex development (DSD) or intersex conditions.[3] "

Sex & Gender

What are Sex & Gender? And why do they matter in health research? Understanding sex and gender is critical to understanding human health and disease.

orwh.od.nih.gov

 

[Copernicus]

In your profile you state that you are male. But you refuse to provide a independently verifiable definition for male. Your words have no meaning.

Well, I did try to explain the difference between a definition and a meaning to you earlier, but that doesn't mean that you even cared what I said. If you had anything of substance to say here, you wouldn't be making silly comments about what you saw in my profile. I'm well aware that you are just going to repeat your position ad nauseam no matter what anyone says, least of all me.

 

[Ella S.]

Alright, I've skimmed this thread. Please allow me to say my piece and read through it with careful consideration, because I'm going to make some points that I haven't seen anyone else bring up in this thread so far.

First of all, something that I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned, almost nobody claims to subscribe to "gender ideology." There is no self-identified "gender ideology" movement. It's not clear what specific ideas are being attacked when someone says they oppose gender ideology, because it's not a concrete term. I know that might be surprising to some readers who mean something more specific when the use this term, but in common use "gender ideology" is not a reference to any specific coherent position or philosophy; it is mostly used as a pejorative.

Secondly, when it comes to science, gender is studied mostly by psychology and neuro-psychiatry, not normally biology. Sex is studied by biology and, while sex and gender are closely related, they are not quite the same. However, with that being said, gender does ultimately have biological roots, just like personality does. It is not merely a facet of language.

The mainstream scientific consensus within psychology is that people can be born with genders that do not match their socially assigned gender and this is what we call "transgender." Transgender people do exist and their existence has been instrumental in helping scientists study gender to gain a deeper understanding of it.

What does "assigned gender" mean? Well, it's the gender that other people identify you as from childhood. You might think that this makes gender the same as sex and you would be right in the majority of cases. Most people are born with a specific set of primary sex characteristics (known as genitalia) and secondary sex characteristics, which we call one's "anatomical sex." This anatomical sex is usually either male or female, which is normally determined by what chromosomal pair someone has, "XY" for men and "XX" for women; this is known as "chromosomal sex."

Notice, however, that this simpler notion of sex and gender is only a generalization. There are a variety of people who are born with intersex conditions. This includes people who are born with an anatomical sex that is different from their chromosomal sex. It also includes people whose anatomical sex does not neatly fit into the category of "female" or "male" for one reason or another and people who have chromosome sets beyond just XY and XX. Medical scientists and biologists have been increasingly discovering that sex is not as simple as a binary man/woman dichotomy.

What does this have to do with assigned gender? Many intersex people are assigned either a male or female gender, regardless of the fact that this does not line up with the reality of their actual biological sex. This is the gender on their birth certificate and what everyone refers to them as. This has been happening since before the invention of the English language and it's why "assigned gender" is not entirely synonymous with biological sex.

Along the same lines, in psychology, "gender" refers to what used to be called one's "mental sex" or "psychological sex." Just as one's chromosomal sex might not match one's anatomical sex, one's gender might not match one's assigned gender. Just as one's chromosomal sex might not fit neatly into male or female, being composed of chromosome sets like XXY, so, too, are there nonbinary genders that don't quite fit under "male" or "female."

That's the science of it. So if you truly care about science and biology, then you should do what the scientists who study gender do: refer to transgender people by their actual gender rather than their assigned gender.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, and again here it is for sex:
"

Sex​

Sex is a multidimensional biological construct based on anatomy, physiology, genetics, and hormones. (These components are sometimes referred to together as “sex traits.”)[2] All animals (including humans) have a sex. As is common across health research communities, NIH usually categorizes sex as male or female, although variations do occur. These variations are called differences in sex development (DSD) or intersex conditions.[3] "

Sex & Gender

What are Sex & Gender? And why do they matter in health research? Understanding sex and gender is critical to understanding human health and disease.

orwh.od.nih.gov

Nope. Not true. I'm just one of the very few people who's hair color is really that color, and lots of people are actually blond, blue eyed, and whatever recessive genetic traits they posses.
This also means because we must go by genetics of what is there, we're all a bunch of black Africans. We're also dogs and daffodils. I know you can't see it and certainly this must come as a shock to you, but because of your biology you're a fruit fly. But look on the bright side! You're a banana so you can have more fun with sex puns.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Again; I use pronouns based on biology.

Okay, let us play this game of disorder and abnormal, but do it on you. Now I am going to give evidence for the fact that you have a disorder and are abonormal. But if you understand what I am actually do, you will get the joke and how it is a game in a sense. But I predict you don't get it and thus you have a disorder and are abnormal.

For 2 or more humans, if you can observe 2 different behaviors as in effect exclusive as only one or the other is possible for a single human, you can assign normal and abnormal on one of the behaviors and the other on the other behavior. You can't observe normal or abonormal as they have no properites in regards to the 5 senses and there is no scientific measurement standard for any measurement unit of normal or abnormal.

So let us look at 2 different kinds of cognition. Abnormal non-reflective automation cognition and normal, correct non-disorder reflective cognition.
It is connected to the ability to not just react to input, but reflect as per intra-psychology to one's own cogntion and understand that oneself has cognition and examine that cognition and not just take it for granted and not examine it. It is connected to the concept of meta-cogntion and the ablity to self-monitor ones own thinking and feeling and reflect on that.
It can be tested for in all humans including you and I and the effect is that you will use different cognition on this subject of cognition versus how I do it. I.e. you have a disorder and are abnormal and I am not, because I say so.

So what you do in effect, is to state your cognition as self-evident as correct for all understanding, because to you other versions of cognition is incorrect, but you don't actually notice that you do that as you. You take it for granted as self-evidenct as correct for all human behavior, because that you are normal, is a fact that is indepedent of any cognition. That is your trick. You don't notice that these standards for how to evalute human behavior have no objective referent in effect and that include you.

Your method is as follows. Observe a human in total for all that this human is and you pick one cateogory and declare that is relevent for how you treat that human. But that you pick that category, is not objective, universal or indepedent of that you pick that category. That is what you can't understand with meta-cogntion. To you that is self-evidenct in your cognition.
And that is how you are abonormal and have a disorder , because I have another version of cognition.

Do you understand that a human is not just objective facts and that is also the case with you, not just you, but us all.
That I have a different cognition than you doesn't mean I am abnormal or have a disorder. But that is also the case for you. We are just different for how we behave. But you deny that as relevant, beucause you treat yourself as a speical postive case, because of reasons...

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Nope. Not true. I'm just one of the very few people who's hair color is really that color, and lots of people are actually blond, blue eyed, and whatever recessive genetic traits they posses.
This also means because we must go by genetics of what is there, we're all a bunch of black Africans. We're also dogs and daffodils. I know you can't see it and certainly this must come as a shock to you, but because of your biology you're a fruit fly. But look on the bright side! You're a banana so you can have more fun with sex puns.

Can you rephrase that?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Can you rephrase that?

I'm satarizing the "biology" crowd and their insistince it entirely depends on things they can't see and may not actually know.

 

[wellwisher]

I foresee this trend growing larger.

"Students at a Massachusetts middle school showed their opposition to Pride month by chanting, “USA Are My Pronouns,” through the school halls and wore red, white, and blue clothing and face paint."......

"The growing trend goes back as far as 2021, when a 15-year-old went viral for a speech ripping into his school board for critical race theory-infused teachings in their curriculum.".....

"High school students in Ottawa, Canada, are also staging a walkout to protest what they saw as inappropriate content in their curriculums"....

MSN

The citizens of Massachusetts prides themselves in terms of their role in the Revolutionary War; Paul Revere and the battle of Concord and Lexington; the shot heard around the world. They even have a state holiday; Patriots Day, to celebrate this important time in US history.

Massachusetts is actually not called a state but a Commonwealth. There are four Commonwealths in the USA; Massachusetts, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Kentucky. The term was coined by pre-Revolutionary writers, as sort of a subtle dig at the British Monarchy, since the monarchy controlled everything. Commonwealth was for the people. It functions the same way as a state.

The role of Massachusetts in the Revolutionary War, was connected to standing up to big government rule; King of England, and his taxation without representation. The colonists paid taxes but had no representation in Parliament. The current US government, run by the political left, via teachers unions are not allowing the natural citizens, who pay taxes and the salaries of teachers, to have representation in their children's schools. The corrupt government even used their Injustice Department to classify concerned parents domestic terrorists. The students are applying their Revolutionary War lessons, they are taught as children of Massachusetts. When government oversteps, it is the job of the patriots to fight back. This is the American way, then and now.

I was reading an article about how Europe is taking a different approach to the transgender fad, going slower in terms of analyzing studies, before feeding problem children drugs and surgery as part of an artificial transitioning process. The most logical explanation for the difference in approach is many countries in Europe have socialized medicine, so the medical field is tighter in terms of funds, so they work harder at safety and efficiency.

The American Medical system is still more of a free market medical system, where free market forces and political favoritism have more of an impact. Deficit spending also make it easier to indulge. They tend to run with biased studies for reasons of profits and power. The fact that the Democrat party is running this, with them already in bed with big Med via ObamaCare, shows this is about money, campaign donations and power. The health of the children mean more in Europe. In the USA, they can be used as pawns to big med and big pharm.

Countries in Europe, who were the first to transition children, are pulling back since more recents studies show this does not solve the problem, but still leads to very high suicide rates, down the line. Psychological counciling appears to be less destructive, as just as affective, as drugs like puberty blockers.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Wrong. It isn't my personal take. It is a science-based definition used by the NIH.

"Sex is a multidimensional biological construct based on anatomy, physiology, genetics, and hormones. (These components are sometimes referred to together as “sex traits.”)[2] All animals (including humans) have a sex. As is common across health research communities, NIH usually categorizes sex as male or female, although variations do occur. These variations are called differences in sex development (DSD) or intersex conditions.[3]"

"Gender can be broadly defined as a multidimensional construct that encompasses gender identity and expression, as well as social and cultural expectations about status, characteristics, and behavior as they are associated with certain sex traits.[2] Understandings of gender vary throughout historical and cultural contexts."

Sex & Gender

What are Sex & Gender? And why do they matter in health research? Understanding sex and gender is critical to understanding human health and disease.

orwh.od.nih.gov

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"Sex is a multidimensional biological construct based on anatomy, physiology, genetics, and hormones. (These components are sometimes referred to together as “sex traits.”)[2] All animals (including humans) have a sex. As is common across health research communities, NIH usually categorizes sex as male or female, although variations do occur. These variations are called differences in sex development (DSD) or intersex conditions.[3]"

"Gender can be broadly defined as a multidimensional construct that encompasses gender identity and expression, as well as social and cultural expectations about status, characteristics, and behavior as they are associated with certain sex traits.[2] Understandings of gender vary throughout historical and cultural contexts."

Sex & Gender

What are Sex & Gender? And why do they matter in health research? Understanding sex and gender is critical to understanding human health and disease.

orwh.od.nih.gov

You mean... Shaul is claiming to be using the NIH definitions, but... hasn't even READ the NIH definitions??

Shocking.