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Symptoms vs Cause
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
I have no problem with that wording, but it is the appeal to Baha’i beliefs as the only way to achieve it that sabotages it. They have an ideal they sabotage with their own beliefs. It totally underestimates humans and their needs for identity. Plus the anti-gay thing.
Audie
Veteran Member
I'm profoundly suspicious of idealist movements.
Do you find meaning in "oneness..."?
I don't.
For one, it's NOT going to happen on any level
other than genetic, sort of.
As for oneness with the man who raped me,
if he dissociated into component ions so there's
ONE of us left, sure. I could do that.
Oh, and being a practicing lesbian, bahai is
abhorrent to me. I will One with them if they all
dissociate
They, one and all, have their own choices to make and they walk their chosen path in life, a life that is just a blink in eternity, until death takes us all and to dust we return.
Love and Peace to all.
Regards Tony
It is the realisation that we are one people on one planet. It is the realisation that no one person is greater then another, we are servants to each other. If just one person is suffering, then the remaining 99.9999% would sacrifice themselves to assist that person. It is a realisation that we one and all have inherited a living earth that we must nurture and protect, It is a realisation that we are guided by a force beyond our comprehensive capacity.
It transcends predudices of gender and race and stands on Love, Justice, Trustworthiness and Truthfulness.
It is guide is One God, it transcends empty nice sounding words.
Regards Tony
Another consideration is that unity calls us to transcend our own need for identity, to give ourselves to the whole. An example is that we subdue unbridled nationalism in favour of being a world citizen, proud and happy for being born in a specific country.
True liberty is submission to moral and ethical codes of conduct.
Regards Tony
lukethethird
unknown member
Freedom from religion is also liberating.
Heyo
Veteran Member
@loverofhumanity:
See what I mean? Your fellow believers are undermining your attempt at every other turn. If you can't keep gods out of it, you're bound to fail.
We are one species. We can think and cooperate with others, as long as we aren’t immature, greedy, selfish scumbags out to win at all costs.
That’s the problem for Bahai idealism, it doesn’t account for the immature, the mentally ill, the greedy, etc. they think magically and unrealistically.
And the Bahai don’t account for this.
At least you aren’t gay.
OK, well i need to edit my above comment.
More ideals that don’t allow you to realize that not mentioning your religious beliefs would make appeals that are more appealing to others. You tie the idea of unity to Baha’u’llah and don’t acknowledge that you can do this via your own thinking, just like atheists do.
They may exist, but I've not seen any fanatical Baha'i compared to all the other major religions: Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and even Buddhism.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I think that depends upon how you define fanatical. I have seen what I consider to be fanatical Baha'is, lots of them.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I've seen authoritarian tendencies. The Baha'i has a lot of laws and morals codes... if they get too strict on trying to get people to adhere to the laws, they'll get too legalistic. But, because they believe these laws are from their God, they will probably try and enforce them someday. But who's going to be the enforcers? A Baha'i police force?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The spiritual teachings were essentially the same but their messages are all different. That's why God sent a new Messenger!
Why would God send a new Messenger with exactly the same message? That makes no logical sense.
We accept what the Messengers of those ancient religions revealed but we reject the false commentaries and interpretations of their scriptures.
The beliefs and practices of those religions have long since departed from their original source.
“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 171-172
“It is an indisputable fact that religions have always changed in the course of their long history. Religion, unless it has become a faith of the ‘dead letter’, is a living thing, and to be living means to assimilate, to absorb and incorporate foreign matter. All religions have done this, and the clear source of revelation has become a broad stream made up of many tributaries. In the course of their history all religions have incorporated beliefs and practices alien to them in essence and have thereby departed from their source, the revelation. The religious heritage has been constantly increased, while the revelation has been obscured by human misinterpretations and misunderstandings.”
(Udo Schaefer,The Light Shineth in Darkness: Studies in revelation after Christ, pl. 80)
Audie
Veteran Member
Funny frubal
ppp
Well-Known Member
Very suspicious. Especially idealist movements where the members are not critical of their own goals,
exchemist
Veteran Member
I don't buy the premise that humanity's condition is worsening. The assertion that it is approaching a stage of "utter hopelessness" sounds like pure Eeyore.
As for the solution being advocated, I've read this sort of thing many times from Baha'i posters here and I find it a bit frustrating. The basic problem with such pious exhortations, well-meaning though they are, is that people have difficulty agreeing on what constitutes an "injustice", let alone what should be done about each of them. People have very different points of view. The Ukraine war is a case in point. Wringing ones's hands and calling for us all to "unite" is just an empty wish, unless it is accompanied by some practical idea of how this might be done.
It seems to me the best we can do as citizens is (i) to set an example among those we interact with, (ii) to vote, when the occasion arises, for those politicians that seek to unite people behind a common purpose rather than seeking to divide them and stir up antagonism, and (iii) to show our support for organisations that mediate in disputes, whether that be marriage guidance counselling or the United Nations.
I like your example of same sex marriage though. What that shows is the interplay between public opinion and politics. In a democracy, the way to effect change is from both ends: to convince enough people that politicians respond to their wishes, but also for politicians to espouse a cause and argue for it in public, so as to to lead public opinion. What I think we could do with more of is political leadership for moderate causes. All too often it is the extremist politicians who advocate causes in public, usually because they can make issues sound appealingly simple, when in fact they aren't.
So maybe there's a fourth thing we can all try to do: inform ourselves and those around us, and have the patience to listen to explanations of issues in depth, rather than relying on glib soundbites and easy answers.
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
They do have teachings on all those things. They want to abolish the extremes of wealth and poverty.
Baha’is believe that society must guard against the extremes of wealth and poverty, conditions that inevitably produce unfair advantages for some and deprivation for others.
But it's still just stating it. They can't apply any of their teachings, unless they become the dominant religion and? Yeah, that's the question. What will they do if they get into a position of power? "God says we must not allow people to get too rich." "God doesn't want people doing recreational drugs and drinking alcohol. They are now forbidden." "God doesn't want people having sex outside of marriage. And a fine will be imposed on all those that break that law." "God says that homosexuality is abhorrent to him. It is no longer permitted."
Of course, they say they would never impose their laws and their morality on others. But, if the majority of the people are Baha'is, then why won't they elect people that support the God's laws? Then why won't those people vote in God's laws as the law of the land? Again, Baha'is, I'm sure will say, "We'd never do that."
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
What exactly does Humanism believe in? I found this...
Humanism is a rational philosophy informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by compassion. Affirming the dignity of each human being, it supports the maximization of individual liberty and opportunity consonant with social and planetary responsibility. It advocates the extension of participatory democracy and the expansion of the open society, standing for human rights and social justice. Free of supernaturalism, it recognizes human beings as a part of nature and holds that values-be they religious, ethical, social, or political-have their source in human experience and culture. Humanism thus derives the goals of life from human need and interest rather than from theological or ideological abstractions, and asserts that humanity must take responsibility for its own destiny.
I don't see any reason why the Baha'is would be against it... except it makes them and their God unnecessary.