Terrorist attack in Paris: 12 dead, 7 injured

[apophenia]

I can't face listening to any songs.

What was the conspiracy they concocted & carried out? What evidence is there?

No. I didn't say that.

What I said was a suggestion of who could carry such things out, in response to your - correct - observation that people like Bush are ... well ... bozos

In other words....

There was a drunk crawling around under the light of a streetlamp. He was muttering and cursing about what he had lost.

A passerby stopped, and watched him crawling around muttering for ten full minutes. Finally, the passerby asked the drunk what he was doing.

"Looking for my car keys !" said the drunk.

"But you have been crawling around in the light of that streetlamp for ten minutes. The keys obviously aren't there", said the passerby.

" I know that you idiot !" shouted the drunk, "But it's the only place with enough light to look ! "

 

[Revoltingest]

No. I didn't say that.
What I said was a suggestion of who could carry such things out, in response to your - correct - observation that people like Bush are ... well ... bozos
In other words....
There was a drunk crawling around under the light of a streetlamp. He was muttering and cursing about what he had lost.
A passerby stopped, and watched him crawling around muttering for ten full minutes. Finally, the passerby asked the drunk what he was doing.
"Looking for my car keys !" said the drunk.
"But you have been crawling around in the light of that streetlamp for ten minutes. The keys obviously aren't there", said the passerby.
" I know that you idiot !" shouted the drunk, "But it's the only place with enough light to look ! "

Okey dokey!

 

[oldbadger]

Atheists are pretty good now also.
Perhaps the problem here is as was hinted on the News, the problems between religion and the secular world.
They want to ridicule who they want, but some will not stand for it, so Dont do it! Is that difficult?

Hi....
Do you think that Satirical mags will continue to 'do it'?

 

[Riverwolf]

Dragging evil into the light so it can't hide is the entire purpose of civilization.

First I've ever heard that. I've always been under the impression that the purpose of "civilization" was "live in cities".

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Problem arent the Muslims outside of France/Europe. The Problem are those inside.

Yesterday evening in Besancon the local Muslim youth celebrated the murderers with fireworks.
When the police arrived the Allahu Akbar screams intensified. They threw stones at the police and pledged to kill more people.

The local Muslim youth or some local Muslim youth?

A couple of weeks ago people in the US were treated to a handful of demonstrators marching down 5th Avenue chanting "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now.". [source] How shall we therefor stigmatize some 45 million African Americans?

And were you referring to the Besancon mentioned in this article from last February?

 

[Wirey]

First I've ever heard that. I've always been under the impression that the purpose of "civilization" was "live in cities".

Three caves is a city. Civilization involves morals.

 

[metis]

I'm not convinced that Muslims en mass have a responsibility to be spectacular for 'our' sake.

But it's not just for "our" sake but "theirs" as well. Remember when a radical Jew shot up a mosque in Israel about 15 or so years ago, and there were mass demonstrations against that by fellow Israelis in both Tel Aviv and Jerusalem? That sends a message out, loud and clear.

The Muslim community is very worried about a backlash, but maybe no better a message than for them to send out would be the strong message by many thousands that "We do not support this and we will not tolerate this".

 

[Riverwolf]

Three caves is a city. Civilization involves morals.

A "city" is a type of settlement, in which thousands of people live in close proximity in very artificial shelters. Three caves isn't even a village.

Unless, of course, Western Civilization is the only civilization to have ever existed throughout history.

 

[metis]

The Problem arent the Muslims outside of France/Europe. The Problem are those inside.

Yesterday evening in Besancon the local Muslim youth celebrated the murderers with fireworks.
When the police arrived the Allahu Akbar screams intensified. They threw stones at the police and pledged to kill more people.


It doesn't bring anything if Muslims in Tunesia, Egypt, Indonesia or on the Moon condemned these attacks.
What is important is the reaction of those inside the EU. And it doesn't look good there.

Exactly, and this is a problem that could get far worse and fast.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But it's not just for "our" sake but "theirs" as well. Remember when a radical Jew shot up a mosque in Israel about 15 or so years ago, and there were mass demonstrations against that by fellow Israelis in both Tel Aviv and Jerusalem? That sends a message out, loud and clear.

The Muslim community is very worried about a backlash, but maybe no better a message than for them to send out would be the strong message by many thousands that "We do not support this and we will not tolerate this".

Of course. And much the same thing could be said about an Israeli Jewish response to price-tag vandalism and assaults. We all need to be disturbed into action.

 

[Avi1001]

But it's not just for "our" sake but "theirs" as well. Remember when a radical Jew shot up a mosque in Israel about 15 or so years ago, and there were mass demonstrations against that by fellow Israelis in both Tel Aviv and Jerusalem? That sends a message out, loud and clear.

The Muslim community is very worried about a backlash, but maybe no better a message than for them to send out would be the strong message by many thousands that "We do not support this and we will not tolerate this".

Correct....and there needs to be more interfaith dialogue....and teach-ins....!!!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

@Flanker, @metis :

Before we get too much further, can either of you provide a source for this Besancon Muslim youth 'celebration'? I find nothing in English.​

 

[Flankerl]

The local Muslim youth or some local Muslim youth?

A couple of weeks ago people in the US were treated to a handful of demonstrators marching down 5th Avenue chanting "What do we want? Dead cops. When do we want it? Now.". [source] How shall we therefor stigmatize some 45 million African Americans?

And were you referring to the Besancon mentioned in this article from last February?

Défense | Besançon : des feux d'artifice entendus après l’attentat contre Charlie

Also your article is from February 2013.

 

[metis]

Of course. And much the same thing could be said about an Israeli Jewish response to price-tag vandalism and assaults. We all need to be disturbed into action.

Absolutely, and while I'm at it, let me recommend the book "The Unmaking of Israel" by Gershom Gorenberg.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Défense | Besançon : des feux d'artifice entendus après l’attentat contre Charlie

Thanks. Sadly, I neither read nor speak French, but Google suggests the following phrase:

"… the announcement of the attack against the weekly Charlie Hebdo, was celebrated by a handful of individuals."​

If this is at all close, then perhaps your "the local Muslim youth" was at the very least misleading and prejudicial. Yes?

I also note that you did not respond to my question regarding how we should characterize African Americans.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

From all reports....France has become the most reactionary country in Europe....it appears that all Jews will have to leave soon.

what has this outrage to do with Jews?

Jews are free to come and go as they wish. If they do not feel part of French or European culture and find the present position too dangerous, they can move somewhere safer if they can find it. However the Islamic extremist problem in France will remain.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

That is where a significant part of the disappointment lies, namely in not enough pushback of terrorists within the Islamic community itself. If there were massive Islamic demonstrations against terrorism, this would likely have the effect of making such activities less popular. Social pressure is often more effective than just passing more laws.

Absolutely. A couple of Muslims have expressed their condemnation in this thread, and I much appreciate that. But a few more would have been nice.

 

[metis]

what has this outrage to do with Jews?...

A lot since Jewish synagogues and sites have been targeted there and in some other locations in Europe, and it's the major reason why so many have left.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Atheists are pretty good now also.
Perhaps the problem here is as was hinted on the News, the problems between religion and the secular world.
They want to ridicule who they want, but some will not stand for it, so Dont do it! Is that difficult?

How about, don't kill people just because you don't like what they have to say about something. Is that difficult?

The problem lies with people who feel like being offended is reason enough to kill a bunch of people.

 

[Avi1001]

A lot since Jewish synagogues and sites have been targeted there and in some other locations in Europe, and it's the major reason why so many have left.

Right....the history of Europe is when it becomes reactionary....and the economy becomes depressed......the death of Jews follows......review the history....!!!!....and watch the present....in France.....!