The Coronation of Christian King Charles III

[Elihoenai]

First off, I am totally uninterested in discussing teh Puritans, since their movement died out quite some time ago.

Gnostic Christianity similarly died out, even if some elements remain.

But more to the point, a Christian is anyone who says that Jesus is the messiah who died for their sins. You have three branches of Christianity: Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox (eastern and oriental). They are all "real" Christians, and all Protestants are "real" Protestants ( meaning they accept the 5 solas).

Are you familiar with the No True Scotsman fallacy? It is a way of reasoning that is fallacious, meaning that there are no true connections to the conclusion. It is sometimes called the Appeal to Purity. Here is one illustration how that fallacy would work:
Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "But no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."

Your claim that mainline Protestants are not "real" Protestants is a clear use of this fallacy.

Malachi 3:3

3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.

1 John 3:3

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.



What you have Written about Fallacy is the Empty Waffle of Devil's/Satan's Minister Aristotle. It's because you Lack Real/True Religion why you are putting your Confidence in Satan/Aristotle. You have Betrayed Elohim/God by suggesting that being Real/True is Not about Purity.


Your arguments are Atheistic. This is what Atheists do on these forums in their War Against Elohim/God and Religion. What type of Judaism are you practising? You appear to be misrepresenting Judaism as an Atheist.


True/Real Religion is All About Purity/Holiness, Total Devotion/Commitment, Faith and Law Keeping in Worship to Elohim/God.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Not at all, this is true in Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy as well, only in Catholicism as much authority is given to extra-Biblical scripture, oral Church tradition and Papal theological infallibility, which are specifically what stand in contraposition to the Protestant doctrine of sola scriptura.

Sure, but the question is, what is considered exclusively authoritative for doctrine in the religions as they are. In Judaism, that is oral tradition leading to Tanakh and Talmud explicating the Torah, in Christianity it is writings and traditions as noted above, in Islam it is Qur’an and the oral-leading-to-scriptural Hadith. These are where the ultimate and exclusive authority lie in the Abrahamic faiths, and they necessarily involve mythos (“stories”) at their core. The direct, immediate experience of God, which lies at the heart of Gnosticism, has no authority, and is denied in these faiths, despite people’s obvious longing therefore, such as is seen in the various Catholic “apparitions of Mary” which always shamed me as a young Catholic boy. That is why all these “apparitions” have never been validated by the Vatican, where they are viewed as possible but questionable and unauthoritative (I view them as nonsense). It is also why Universalism (and Unitarian-Universalism) are not viewed by Christians as being “Christian faiths”.

To be a member-in-good-standing of one of these Abrahamic faiths, one must accept the absolute, exclusive authority of the extant scriptures. My becoming an atheist was, rather than being a renunciation of God, basically a renunciation of the Bible as a source of doctrine, faith or belief; which left open the possibility that there might be a God which exists, but eliminated the possibility that I can know anything about that God. That is why I call myself “atheist, but not antitheist”.

That is a good post. The only caveat is that your culture for understanding God as a concept God is Abrahamic itself.
I have faith in God, but it is not an Abrahamic God.

 

[Elihoenai]

I think that the term “Christian Gnosticism”, along with “Jewish Gnosticism”, is utterly oxymoronic. Judaism and Christianity are “revealed faiths”, meaning that all knowledge about deity is arrived at by means of stories as relayed across time both orally and in scripture…the scriptures. In Gnosticism, knowledge of God’s existence and character are gained by direct experience, which places it at epistemic odds with revealed faith in an apparently irreconcilable way.

That is the teaching of the Universal Roman Catholic Church on Christian Gnosticism. From the Perspective of the Roman Catholic Church Christian Gnostics are the Arch Heretics and Subject of Inquisition of said Church.

I see that you are a Nominal Roman Catholic and Atheist. Do you agree that Catholocism is Really Atheism?


Gnosticism, the Enduring Heresy

Basically, yes… but knowledge about this is gained through sacred stories as have manifested in scripture and oral tradition (actually, vice-versa, to place them in chronological order). The epistemology of the Abrahamic faiths, Islam included, is mythical (based upon a tradition of mythos: of story both oral and scriptural), while that of Gnosticism is directly experiential. This seems to represent an unbridgeable gap between them.

Matthew 28:18

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Job 19:26

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:


Yes, there is Ginormous Gap Between them Ordained by Elohim/God. Elohim/God teaches in the Holy Scriptures/Bible Esoteric and Exoteric Knowledge, Exoteric Knowledge is to produce Earthly Christians for Elohim's/God's Earthly Kingdom. The Pagan Universal Roman Catholic Church is Elohim/God Ordained to bear Rule over the Earth. Christianity, Judaism and Islam are Pagan! Paganism is Elohim/God Flesh!

 

[Zwing]

Satan's Minister Aristotle

Oh…shame!!

 

[Zwing]

I have faith in God, but it is not an Abrahamic God.

How do you come by your understanding? Has it been auto-didactic?

 

[Zwing]

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are Pagan! Paganism is Elohim/God Flesh!

As far as I know, Christianity is the only of those which posits a fleshly aspect to God.

 

[Zwing]

I see that you are a Nominal Roman Catholic and Atheist. Do you agree that Catholocism is Really Atheism?

No, not at all. Catholicism is by definition theistic. Nonsensically theistic, but theistic anyways. It is only I who am an atheist in that sentence.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How do you come by your understanding? Has it been auto-didactic?

Yes, through philosophy and as such without any organized religions.

 

[Zwing]

Yes, through philosophy and as such without any organized religions.

Philosophy has brought you to a theistic opinion??

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Philosophy has brought you to a theistic opinion??

No, I am not a theist. I am a sort of deist, but even that is in a non-Abrahamic sense.
We can go through it if you like, but remember it is philosophy, not standard religion.

 

[Zwing]

No, I am not a theist. I am a sort of deist, but even that is in a non-Abrahamic sense.

Deism, however, is a theistic worldview. Perhaps you are a monist? That might be construed as “non-Abrahamic, non-theistic deism”.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Deism, however, is a theistic worldview. Perhaps you are a monist? That might be construed as “non-Abrahamic, non-theistic deism”.

The problem is that you understand the concept through a cultural point of view. And as long as you take that for granted, my understanding won't make sense to you, because God to you is a certain cultural variant.

 

[Zwing]

The problem is that you understand the concept through a cultural point of view. And as long as you take that for granted, my understanding won't make sense to you, because God to you is a certain cultural variant.

That is always true, but try me…I might surprise you by comprehending.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That is always true, but try me…I might surprise you by comprehending.

Okay, this is philosophy for metaphysics, ontology, logic and epistemology.
To assume and act with trust in, that the universe is real, orderly and knowable, is a form of metaphysical/ontological idealism, but that is what methodological naturalism is in the end. Hence it is to attribute qualitative properties to the universe and thus is a kind of God, because it is non-physical.
That is my belief system as in the end with faith.

 

[Zwing]

Yes, beautiful. To view a senseless universe which is subject to all kinds of randomness as an orderly system is the most human thing in the world. Bravo!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes, beautiful. To view a senseless universe which is subject to all kinds of randomness as an orderly system is the most human thing in the world. Bravo!

Now for the practice of God/religion/ideologies/worldviews in the everyday world I accept individual variance as long as somebody doesn't claim objective authority over what the universe really is and how we ought to live as humans.

 

[Alien826]

I've just wasted spent over an hour reading through the last several pages of this thread, and I've come up with a vision of the future. It is all the nonsense believed by all the religious people spinning round and round, faster and faster, until it finally reaches escape velocity and flies off into space, leaving only sensible ideas behind for the rest of us. This vision is probably just as true as all the other nonsense, but such an attractive concept ....

 

[Elihoenai]

As far as I know, Christianity is the only of those which posits a fleshly aspect to God.

Genesis 17:11-25

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.


You appear to be Ignorant. Muslims and Jews get Circumcised as a Token/Sign of their Fleshly Religion, as Elohim/God Commanded them. Remember that Muslim Men are Promised 72 Virgins in Paradise. In Judaism Sex on the Sabbath day is Mitzvah. Are you aware that Jews are looking forward to the Return of Animal Sacrifice?


Circumcision

"...Circumcision is one of the world's most common and oldest medical procedures.[1] Prophylactic usage originated in England during the 1850s, becoming established as a way to prevent sexually transmitted infections.[28][29] Beyond use as a prophylactic or treatment option in healthcare, circumcision plays a major role in many of the world's cultures and religions, most prominently Judaism and Islam...."

Circumcision - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ancient Animal Sacrifice Ritual Makes a Modern Comeback

Jews recreate biblical Passover sacrifice

 

[Elihoenai]

No, not at all. Catholicism is by definition theistic. Nonsensically theistic, but theistic anyways. It is only I who am an atheist in that sentence.

Therefore, Roman Catholicism is Theistic Fleshly Religion Ordained by Elohim/God. From a Christian Gnostic Perspective Roman Catholicism is Heathen/Pagan Atheistic Religion given its Fleshly Nature.

 

[Zwing]

You appear to be Ignorant. Muslims and Jews get Circumcised as a Token/Sign of their Fleshly Religion, as Elohim/God Commanded them.

Haha…what makes you think I’m talking about circumcision?? I’m talking about Jesus as Christians view him, man! “God made flesh”, and all that.