Regiomontanus
Eastern Orthodox
Yes. Time to hit the rest button.
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The debate is on
- Thread starter Riders
- Start date
Yes. Time to hit the rest button.
We Never Know
No Slack
You made 3. claims in your post. One was false.
2. Is a false claim.
Now you can keep on saying "I said I don't recall" all you want. That covers 1., it doesn't cover 2 and 3. where you claimed I danced around answering after being asked.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
ME EITHER, and I am proud to say that.
Trump has been a uniquely problematic person in a political system that has relied on some degree of an honor system. Let's note that Trump has been this problem for republicans as well, as they have targeted ethical republicans like Liz Cheney and destroyed their political careers. Trump is much like the Covid virus, and MAGA has infected many people, and affected the lives of many who want nothing to do with it. How does anyone functioning in a tradition of politics supposed to deal with a Trump? Trump is bad. But Trump performs as if he isn't, and he's good at selling that lie. Many voters are not as rational as those of us dabbling on debate forums.
They haven't? These status quo politics are boring to the masses. The president is a manager of our national affairs. Biden isn't perfect but he's put togather a good cabinet of ethical public servants. How do the democrats offset all the fearmongering of Trump? And how do they offset the right wing media who is all in to help Trump get elected? Reputable media is out there. The facts are out there. The right is fighting an emotional campaign and many voters are getting played. That's how cons work.
I think where it comes to Biden and the 2024 election too many focus on Biden as a character, and also Trump as a character. Democrats should be focusing on voting for the Biden administration, with Kamala Harris as vice president. It's not as if Biden fails during his second term that the government will collapse, there's a second in line. The justification for looking at Trump as a haracter is those he intends to appoint to run the government, which has very serious consequences that will lead to negative social, economic and global changes.
In the big picture, an assessment that isn't too focused on characters, has to understand that the Biden administration is superior to what Trump will create.
PureX
Veteran Member
The problem is that the democrats are not progressive and do not favor the working class. They are owned by the same corporate elites that are exploiting and destroying the working class, and that will thwart any progressive threats to the status quo. So they've been trying to blame it all on the republicans for decades while doing nothing at all to stop it. Because they're just as corrupt as the people they are blaming.
Their corrupt system has become so broken that no one has any faith in them or it at all anymore. And many want to see it burned to the ground. That's where the insane Trump clown posse comes in. They're promising to tear it all down and replace it with some fantasy authoritarian arian utopia. And a horror show is just around the corner if they do.
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McBell
Unbound
IMO, your post would be much more accurate if you replace "democrats" with politicians and replace "the rebublicans" with "other politicians".
We Never Know
No Slack
"The president came into the debate with a low bar to clear, and he stumbled. He was flat. He was rambling. He was unclear.
About midway through the debate, the Biden campaign said that the president was battling a cold - an attempt to explain his raspy voice. That may be so, but it also sounded like an excuse"
Who won the debate? Biden's incoherent performance worsens age fears - BBC News
The president came into his debate with Donald Trump with a low bar to clear, and he struggled, writes Anthony Zurcher.
www-bbc-com.cdn.ampproject.org
PureX
Veteran Member
It would be the same post.
This reminds me of a certain Bushism…
‘There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, fool me once, shame on—shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again.’
—George W. Bush
PureX
Veteran Member
You make a very interesting point. It's impossible to debate, converse with, or even argue with someone who will deliberately lie. It renders all that is sead, suspect.
Perhaps Biden should have skipped the debate on that basis.
He wanted the National Guard so he could accompany the crowd from the ellipse where he made his speech down to the Capitol building. Secret Service said no to that. Read the document from this thread:
President Trump did in fact offer 10,000 National Guard troops to secure the U.S. Capitol, which was turned down.
Seems that the Jan 6th committe withheld information concerning the Jan 6th riot. Guess if you have a agenda the truth doesn't matter. Of course if you have an agenda guess you will have a problem with the sources also...
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Regiomontanus
Eastern Orthodox
Ahh, the days of being misunderestimated.
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One thing I've observed, both in my own lifetime and throughout history, is that American politics has often been held together by compromise, and that may be the "honor system" of which you speak. But that system has gradually deteriorated and diminished. When you speak of "ethical Republicans like Liz Cheney," we're only speaking in a relative sense - the lesser of two evils. I don't think she's really that ethical, even if she might be relatively more ethical than Trump. This is why the whole campaign has turned into a contest of "Who is the bigger *******?"
It's easy to convince people that Trump is bad, but where they seem to be failing is in convincing the public that the Democrats are good.
You speak of "ethical public servants" and "reputable media" as if just saying it makes it so. The way to offset the fearmongering of Trump and the right-wing media is to demonstrate tangible results which can be seen and felt at the lower levels of society. They're also hobbled by a sharply divided Congress and an ultra-conservative Supreme Court.
The underlying problem here is that Democrats seemingly embraced a variation of Reaganomics back in the late 80s/early 90s which might be called "Reagan Lite," which brought back many of the Reagan Democrats and created a somewhat shaky coalition which turned out to be somewhat mendacious and malignant, in and of itself. In order to offset Trump and the right-wing, it might require that the Democrats strongly and unequivocally denounce many sacred cows and other things that they've stood for over the past several decades. Even Republicans might need to do that, if they truly believe that they're good and ethical.
Ultimately, I think we're facing much deeper issues at present. One thing I notice from both candidates is they both wear American flag pins. They still put a lot of focus on America itself and both claim to be for America and want what is best for the American people. But it's also tied into many myths and legends associated with Americana and the "American Dream," along with various elements of American exceptionalism which may no longer be relevant to our role in the world today. Even the Democrats embrace that to some extent, so we have to somehow break out of that mindset and look to the future.
We have to take a long, hard, honest look at this country - where we are, where we're headed, and what our role in the world should be. All anyone can think to do is go on with the status quo just for the sake of going on with the status quo. The system is running on automatic. So, even with ethical public servants and reputable media, nothing ever really changes - because people are generally driven to cover their own behinds and not rock the boat if they can avoid it. As long as they can keep their own noses clean, there's a tendency to just "let things happen." That's the unfortunate downside of the "honor system" you mentioned above.
Trump, on the other hand, is more than a just a boat rocker, but he's a loose cannon on deck. Or even worse, he could be some kind of mutineer, along with a portion of the crew. They could end up sinking the entire ship, so there's a kind of "all hands on deck" kind of situation where all good Americans are being called upon to save us from this monster. I get that part, and maybe that's the only relevant task at hand up until November. But after that, the government and the politicians will be expected to produce real, tangible results - not just lip service.
JIMMY12345
Active Member
Best summary ever!
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
LOL! Trump was there. He was only a few blocks away. He was the number one instigator. Did you forget his speech?
We Never Know
No Slack
And for the next 4 months.....
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's always an excuse with these people."The president came into the debate with a low bar to clear, and he stumbled. He was flat. He was rambling. He was unclear.
About midway through the debate, the Biden campaign said that the president was battling a cold - an attempt to explain his raspy voice. That may be so, but it also sounded like an excuse"
Who won the debate? Biden's incoherent performance worsens age fears - BBC News
The president came into his debate with Donald Trump with a low bar to clear, and he struggled, writes Anthony Zurcher.
It looks like Biden was put on on some meds to keep him 'sharp' for the debate.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
They clearly cannot accomplish such a task or they simply don't want to.