The Destruction of America

[TransmutingSoul]

On the subject of what is happening in America and what is eating at the fabric of what it is to be a 'United Nation', these are two more quotes I have sourced to give more thought to the spiritual processes that are unfolding in the world at this time. (Disclaimer - In my Opinion)

O YE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD!

"Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity followeth you, and grievous retribution awaiteth you. Think not that which ye have committed hath been effaced in My sight. By My beauty! All your doings hath My pen graven with open characters upon tablets of chrysolite." Bahá’u’lláh, The Hidden Words, Persian, no. 63

"A tempest, unprecedented in its violence, unpredictable in its course, catastrophic in its immediate effects, unimaginably glorious in its ultimate consequences, is at present sweeping the face of the earth. Its driving power is remorselessly gaining in range and momentum. Its cleansing force, however much undetected, is increasing with every passing day. Humanity, gripped in the clutches of its devastating power, is smitten by the evidences of its resistless fury. It can neither perceive its origin, nor probe its significance, nor discern its outcome. Bewildered, agonized and helpless, it watches this great and mighty wind of God invading the remotest and fairest regions of the earth, rocking its foundations, deranging its equilibrium, sundering its nations, disrupting the homes of its peoples, wasting its cities, driving into exile its kings, pulling down its bulwarks, uprooting its institutions, dimming its light, and harrowing up the souls of its inhabitants." Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p. 1

The times are fast changing, we are moving towards a mindset where our unity will be established and a glorious future will unfold. Now is the time to embrace that Unity and do away with prejudices.

Regards Tony

 

[Mitty]

On the subject of what is happening in America and what is eating at the fabric of what it is to be a 'United Nation', these are two more quotes I have sourced to give more thought to the spiritual processes that are unfolding in the world at this time. (Disclaimer - In my Opinion)

O YE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD!

"Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity followeth you, and grievous retribution awaiteth you. Think not that which ye have committed hath been effaced in My sight. By My beauty! All your doings hath My pen graven with open characters upon tablets of chrysolite." Bahá’u’lláh, The Hidden Words, Persian, no. 63

"A tempest, unprecedented in its violence, unpredictable in its course, catastrophic in its immediate effects, unimaginably glorious in its ultimate consequences, is at present sweeping the face of the earth. Its driving power is remorselessly gaining in range and momentum. Its cleansing force, however much undetected, is increasing with every passing day. Humanity, gripped in the clutches of its devastating power, is smitten by the evidences of its resistless fury. It can neither perceive its origin, nor probe its significance, nor discern its outcome. Bewildered, agonized and helpless, it watches this great and mighty wind of God invading the remotest and fairest regions of the earth, rocking its foundations, deranging its equilibrium, sundering its nations, disrupting the homes of its peoples, wasting its cities, driving into exile its kings, pulling down its bulwarks, uprooting its institutions, dimming its light, and harrowing up the souls of its inhabitants." Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p. 1

The times are fast changing, we are moving towards a mindset where our unity will be established and a glorious future will unfold. Now is the time to embrace that Unity and do away with prejudices.

Regards Tony

And I'm sure that Das Fuhrer Trump's niece and his sister fully agree with you. Trump’s niece Mary reveals she leaked president’s taxes for ‘harrowing and salacious’ tell-all book

 

[Father Heathen]

But why did the American Imperialists support and finance the restoration of French colonialism in Vietnam after the Japanese were defeated, and wanted to nuke the Vietnamese and bomb China instead of supporting the Vietnamese against the French? And it's quite ironic that Nguyen Ai Quoc even unsuccessfully asked the Yanks for help against the French colonialists in their war of independence.

And why didn't the American Imperialists abide by the Geneva agreement to hold a referendum to unite Vietnam after the French were kicked out, instead of attacking the Vietnamese and supporting a corrupt police regime in a civil war?
And what threat were the Vietnamese to the Yanks anyway?

At least the goodies won and the baddies skulked back home to build this wall as a sad memorial to complete futility and stupidity.
Lest We Forget.
But alas the American Imperialists still keep making the same mistakes again and again and again and again.

You know the answer to your question: politics and proxy war against the U.S.S.R. (cold war, red scare, etc.) Regardless of which side one would consider to be the goodies or baddies, life isn't a comic book with cut and dry heroes and villains. You've had people on both sides guilty of committing some pretty heinous ****, and both sides also had naive, well meaning, and misguided people who believed themselves to be fighting for a moral and just cause, and of course both sides also had people who were drafted/conscripted and didn't even want to be there.

 

[Mitty]

You know the answer to your question: politics and proxy war against the U.S.S.R. (cold war, red scare, etc.) Regardless of which side one would consider to be the goodies or baddies, life isn't a comic book with cut and dry heroes and villains. You've had people on both sides guilty of committing some pretty heinous ****, and both sides also had naive, well meaning, and misguided people who believed themselves to be fighting for a moral and just cause, and of course both sides also had people who were drafted/conscripted and didn't even want to be there.

In other words the American War in Vietnam etc was about American Imperialism and about wanting to have access to as much of the pie as possible when European colonialism was dismantled.

 

[CG Didymus]

In other words the American War in Vietnam etc was about American Imperialism and about wanting to have access to as much of the pie as possible when European colonialism was dismantled.

America we will fight and defend people from others that want to take their land and resources. It's just not right... unless we do it.

 

[Mitty]

America we will fight and defend people from others that want to take their land and resources. It's just not right... unless we do it.

Is that why the Yanks attacked the Vietnamese and wanted to nuke them and bomb China to support French colonialism?

 

[Father Heathen]

In other words the American War in Vietnam etc was about American Imperialism and about wanting to have access to as much of the pie as possible when European colonialism was dismantled.

Those vile fiends.

So what's your favorite kind of pie?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Maybe this is another good place to put this documentary. I think they did a real good Job on the collapsing economics.

I just watched it a second time and I see they have nailed many things!

Regards Tony

 

[sojourner]

Jesus taught us to pray for God's kingdom to "come" and for his will to "be done on earth as it is in heaven". This will be God's doing, not man's.

well... this is going to fall on deaf ears and probably spark a flurry of page-long responses regurgitating unrelated bible passages that are poorly-exegeted, but here goes:

1) If it's "God's doing, not [humanity's]," why does Jesus teach us to pray for it to come about?
2) Do you not believe that a) prayer is action and b) prayer is efficacious?
3) Jesus teaches us (and commanded the Apostles to teach) that God's imperial rule "has come near," and to act accordingly. Do not the acts of God's kin-dom help to bring that about -- especially since you all appear to believe that that kind-dom will be here on earth?

I think we are taught to co-create with God. The bible says we are the Body of Christ. That means that we act in Christ's stead. Part of the Apostles' teaching is that we "seek and serve Christ in all people, loving our neighbor as ourself." If that's not co-creating a kin-dom for God, I don't know what is. There is a part of us that resonates with God. Some call it the "Christ mind." (Indeed, the bible says that we are to have the same mind in us that was also in Christ.) It is that part of us that is the Holy Spirit indwelling in us, where our will is the same as God's will. Therefore, if we pray to bring about God's will, are we not by default also praying for us to come into alignment with that will and, if we do so, are we not doing something to help bring the kin-dom about? I think we are.

 

[sojourner]

There are no pure bloods in the world anyway, we all still contain traces of Cro magnon and Neanderthals.

Trump appears to be 100% Cro magnon. At any rate, conservatives seem to worship the ground his knuckles drag along...

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Trump appears to be 100% Cro magnon. At any rate, conservatives seem to worship the ground his knuckles drag along...

more likely Neanderthal

 

[CG Didymus]

On the subject of what is happening in America and what is eating at the fabric of what it is to be a 'United Nation', these are two more quotes I have sourced to give more thought to the spiritual processes that are unfolding in the world at this time. (Disclaimer - In my Opinion)

O YE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD!

"Know, verily, that an unforeseen calamity followeth you, and grievous retribution awaiteth you. Think not that which ye have committed hath been effaced in My sight. By My beauty! All your doings hath My pen graven with open characters upon tablets of chrysolite." Bahá’u’lláh, The Hidden Words, Persian, no. 63

"A tempest, unprecedented in its violence, unpredictable in its course, catastrophic in its immediate effects, unimaginably glorious in its ultimate consequences, is at present sweeping the face of the earth. Its driving power is remorselessly gaining in range and momentum. Its cleansing force, however much undetected, is increasing with every passing day. Humanity, gripped in the clutches of its devastating power, is smitten by the evidences of its resistless fury. It can neither perceive its origin, nor probe its significance, nor discern its outcome. Bewildered, agonized and helpless, it watches this great and mighty wind of God invading the remotest and fairest regions of the earth, rocking its foundations, deranging its equilibrium, sundering its nations, disrupting the homes of its peoples, wasting its cities, driving into exile its kings, pulling down its bulwarks, uprooting its institutions, dimming its light, and harrowing up the souls of its inhabitants." Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p. 1

The times are fast changing, we are moving towards a mindset where our unity will be established and a glorious future will unfold. Now is the time to embrace that Unity and do away with prejudices.

Regards Tony

In any of the other religions, are there prophecies that say after Christ returns, or when the Mahdi comes, or Maitreya, or Kalki or whomever... that more bad things, like trials and tribulations, are going to continue on even after the promised one has returned and has long since died?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In any of the other religions, are there prophecies that say after Christ returns, or when the Mahdi comes, or Maitreya, or Kalki or whomever... that more bad things, like trials and tribulations, are going to continue on even after the promised one has returned and has long since died?

CG - The Bible makes it clear to me that the Day of the Lord is both the Promise and the Punishment. To me it is only just that God sends a Messenger before we reap what we sow. We have no excuses for becoming such a wayward civilization lost in our material pursuits, God has warned us prior to the severity of the consequences, the consequences are known.

Amos 5:18-20 "Alas, you who are longing for the day of the Lord, For what purpose will the day of the Lord be to you? It will be darkness and not light; As when a man flees from a lion And a bear meets him, Or goes home, leans his hand against the wall And a snake bites him. Will not the day of the Lord be darkness instead of light, Even gloom with no brightness in it?

Isaiah 2:12 "For the Lord of hosts will have a day of reckoning Against everyone who is proud and lofty And against everyone who is lifted up, That he may be abased."

Thus there is a time of 'Reckoning' where we are judged by our response, the response or lack of it becomes the punishment that has been foretold.

Zephaniah 1:14
Isaiah 24:21-22
Isaiah 13:9-11
Jeremiah 46:10
Isaiah 13:4-6
Ezekiel 30:3-4
Zephaniah 3:8
Revelation 6:15-17 "Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

There are never ending warnings in many Holy Books, So I ask you why are we not more proactive in searching out what is from God and what may not be?

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

CG - The Bible makes it clear to me that the Day of the Lord is both the Promise and the Punishment. To me it is only just that God sends a Messenger before we reap what we sow. We have no excuses for becoming such a wayward civilization lost in our material pursuits, God has warned us prior to the severity of the consequences, the consequences are known.

Amos 5:18-20 "Alas, you who are longing for the day of the Lord, For what purpose will the day of the Lord be to you? It will be darkness and not light; As when a man flees from a lion And a bear meets him, Or goes home, leans his hand against the wall And a snake bites him. Will not the day of the Lord be darkness instead of light, Even gloom with no brightness in it?

Isaiah 2:12 "For the Lord of hosts will have a day of reckoning Against everyone who is proud and lofty And against everyone who is lifted up, That he may be abased."

Thus there is a time of 'Reckoning' where we are judged by our response, the response or lack of it becomes the punishment that has been foretold.

Zephaniah 1:14
Isaiah 24:21-22
Isaiah 13:9-11
Jeremiah 46:10
Isaiah 13:4-6
Ezekiel 30:3-4
Zephaniah 3:8
Revelation 6:15-17 "Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they *said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

There are never ending warnings in many Holy Books, So I ask you why are we not more proactive in searching out what is from God and what may not be?

Regards Tony

Almost all of those are from Judaism, but still even they believe the Messiah will establish peace. It is just a question of when. As for the quote from Revelation, later in the vision, after all the bad things, to me, it is then that Christ returns. Like Christians interpret it that Jesus comes back after Armageddon. And there is no more battles fought after that.

How about some of the other religions? Do you know of any from Buddhism or Hinduism that will support the belief that the Promised One returns and doesn't establish peace right away.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Almost all of those are from Judaism, but still even they believe the Messiah will establish peace. It is just a question of when. As for the quote from Revelation, later in the vision, after all the bad things, to me, it is then that Christ returns. Like Christians interpret it that Jesus comes back after Armageddon. And there is no more battles fought after that.

How about some of the other religions? Do you know of any from Buddhism or Hinduism that will support the belief that the Promised One returns and doesn't establish peace right away.

The best collection of these to date I have found is at this link - Click on one of the following to

There is a mountain load of stuff to go through on that site.

Have a look at the Metaphor in these;

Interpretation of Ancient Navajo Chants - "The fact that the new Light is said to come like the dawn warns us that, even as the early sunlight rises up through the mists of morning and slowly drives away the dark shadows of the canyons, so the coming of the New Teaching will not be widely visible at first, but will reach in the beginnings only those whose whose spiritual eyes and ears are open."

Native American Prophecies Fulfilled "....At the beginning of this cycle of time, long ago, the Great Spirit came down and He made an appearance and He gathered the peoples of this earth together and He said to the human beings, "I'm going to send you to four directions and over time I'm going to change you to four colors, but I'm going to give you some teachings and you will call these the Original Teachings and when you come back together with each other you will share these so that you can live and have peace on earth, and a great civilization will come about." And he said "During the cycle of time I'm going to give each of you two stone tablets. When I give you those stone tablets, don't cast those upon the ground. If any of the brothers and sisters of the four directions and the four colors cast their tablets on the ground, not only, will human beings have a hard time, but almost the earth itself will die......"

Up to you if you want to look CG, there is an amazing amount of Prophecy compiled at that site.

Regards Tony

 

[Deeje]

well... this is going to fall on deaf ears and probably spark a flurry of page-long responses regurgitating unrelated bible passages that are poorly-exegeted, but here goes:

LOL...and the only correctly exegeted interpretation is the one you agree with ....priceless.

Let me see if I can correct the poor exegesis you seem to rely on......

1) If it's "God's doing, not [humanity's]," why does Jesus teach us to pray for it to come about?

I sometimes cannot understand how a man of your supposed education can ask such ridiculous questions.

Why would Jesus teach us to pray for something that man would accomplish? In its entire history, has the human race demonstrated in any manner, shape or form, that it knows how to rule itself successfully?

What rulership did humans have at their beginning? Who was their rightful Sovereign and Lawgiver?...was it not God himself?
Now tell me how we lost God's rulership over us, and how the devil gained it? (1 John 5:19)

Luke 4:5-8
"And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours.” 8 Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’”

Who is bragging about the world's rulership being "handed over to him" and being able to give rulership to whomever he wished? God's Kingdom will "come" and take rulership away from the devil and his cronies (Daniel 2:44) and return the redeemed human race back to God. That is the whole purpose of the Kingdom.

2) Do you not believe that a) prayer is action and b) prayer is efficacious?

Prayer is communication with God through the mediator that he appointed so that sinful humanity can retain communication with God.
By our prayers we convey to God our reliance on him to bring about his will "on earth as it is in heaven". To pray for the Kingdom does nothing to bring it about but it does much to show God where our loyalties lie. If we rely on man to bring permanent peace to the earth by waging war, then tell me when that has ever happened?
James tells us....."for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God." Being "no part of the world" means relying on God, not man. Or don''t you think he is in control?

3) Jesus teaches us (and commanded the Apostles to teach) that God's imperial rule "has come near," and to act accordingly. Do perfected, sinless mankind will again undergo one last testthe acts of God's kin-dom help to bring that about -- especially since you all appear to believe that that kind-dom will be here on earth?

The scriptures tell us that a chosen "few" were to be given the "heavenly calling" as potential 'kings and priests' assisting Christ in his role as King. (Revelation 20:6) The Kingdom's rule will last 1,000 years after which the perfected and sinless human race will undergo one final test and those who pass will inherit everlasting life on earth where God put us in the first place. Where do people get the idea that earth was only supposed to be a training ground for heaven?

Revelation 21:2-4 shows us who are ruled by this heavenly government....
"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

I think we are taught to co-create with God.

Is "I think" the same as "God says"?

The bible says we are the Body of Christ. That means that we act in Christ's stead. Part of the Apostles' teaching is that we "seek and serve Christ in all people, loving our neighbor as ourself." If that's not co-creating a kin-dom for God, I don't know what is.

The "body of Christ" are the "chosen ones" who will take up positions in the Kingdom as "joint heirs"....kings and priests (Revelation 20:6).....so, over whom will these kings rule and for whom will they act as priests? All those in heaven are rulers and they have shed their sinful flesh so they do not need priests.
As the Revelation states...it is with "men" that God dwells...among his people on earth as he did in the days of ancient Israel. He was not physically present but ruled through his human representatives.

The coming of the Kingdom will mean the end of all human pain and suffering and even death itself will be a thing of the past, as it was completely missing from Eden until the humans merited the penalty for disobedience and brought death upon all their descendants.

You seem to get carried away with things that are of no consequence and unrelated to God's original purpose for this earth and human life upon it. What God starts, he finishes (Isaiah 55:11)
I see no correlation in your scenario to anything the Bible says about God's purpose in the beginning.
The Bible is one story from Genesis to Revelation.

There is a part of us that resonates with God. Some call it the "Christ mind." (Indeed, the bible says that we are to have the same mind in us that was also in Christ.) It is that part of us that is the Holy Spirit indwelling in us, where our will is the same as God's will. Therefore, if we pray to bring about God's will, are we not by default also praying for us to come into alignment with that will and, if we do so, are we not doing something to help bring the kin-dom about? I think we are.

That might be your evaluation of Jesus' words...but I take away something completely different from them. There is no "kin-dom".....Jesus never called it that and neither will we. You can't make it into something it never was by changing a word. The Kingdom is the King and his "dom"ain.

I am not one of those anointed for a heavenly role.....I know that I will not go to heaven because I have no desire to do so. My final destiny I hope to be here on a cleansed earth where all the former tragedy and trauma will have "passed away".

The majority of Jehovah's Witnesses on earth today are not going to heaven either. Those of the 'anointed' are the minority of our numbers for the reason being that the heavenly rulers are a finite number, chosen by God and given that promised holy spirit so as to recognize their anointing but hardly ever mentioning it. They are treated no differently to any other brother or sister in our spiritual family.....there is no rank, or title or position or distinctive clothing that puts any human in a position of power.....all are in positions of service....and no one is paid to do God's work. All our members are willing volunteers. We are all educated at the same school and our meetings do not involve rituals or liturgy....they involve Bible study. We stick as closely to the first century model as possible. Christendom has completely departed from that model.

You asked for my explanation and there it is.....

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I am not one of those anointed for a heavenly role.....I know that I will not go to heaven because I have no desire to do so. My final destiny I hope to be here on a cleansed earth where all the former tragedy and trauma will have "passed away".

So God's creation is not perfect as it is?

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

and the only correctly exegeted interpretation is the one you agree with ....priceless.

But isn't that true for all Christians?

 

[Deeje]

So God's creation is not perfect as it is?

I don't know how anyone could think that humankind are not horribly flawed.....where is the perfection? is this what you think it means to be made in God's image? What must God be like if that is the case?

The Earth itself is beautiful in places where humans have not ruined it. Knowing that God placed the first humans in a park-like paradise that they were told to spread out until the whole earth looked like the Garden of Eden.....we only have to look at what humans have done since our first parents defected to see the outcome of their disobedience.....and how God saw fit to educate Adam's offspring by allowing them to live in the consequences of his disobedience. It is a life lesson that will never be lost, so there is no need to ever allow it to happen again.

This life is full of misery and suffering...this is NOT the way God planned for us to live, but free will has to be free to express.....positively or negatively. Each has consequences. God was hoping that the humans would resist the devil's temptation in Eden, but he purposely targeted the woman to get to the man, and managed to divide his loyalties....and the rest as they say.....is history.

 

[Deeje]

But isn't that true for all Christians?

We are all under trial in this life.... there are two opposing forces in the world pulling us in one way or another. The true God has provided his word and his solution to our situation with the death of his son providing a ransom for us......But a pretender is trying to get people to follow other gods so that they will disqualify themselves from life.....how does he do this? By deception...something he has perfected over millenniums. A con artist is very believable and most people don't wake up to the ruse until they have been fleeced.

The trouble with the con artist who is loose in the world, is that he doesn't play fair...he will use any weakness in our character to lead us astray. He will appeal to our own desires and senses by misrepresenting God and turning him into a mere imperfect refection of ourselves.

I have confidence in Jesus' words at John 6:44 and 65...

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him". . . .“This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

If we understand that it is God who draws us to his son then we need not fret about what we believe.....if God is drawing us, satan can't....if satan is drawing us and we are going along willingly then God won't. Only those who see the deception will be prompted to turn in the other direction.