The Destruction of America

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't know how anyone could think that humankind are not horribly flawed.....where is the perfection? is this what you think it means to be made in God's image? What must God be like if that is the case?

The Earth itself is beautiful in places where humans have not ruined it. Knowing that God placed the first humans in a park-like paradise that they were told to spread out until the whole earth looked like the Garden of Eden.....we only have to look at what humans have done since our first parents defected to see the outcome of their disobedience.....and how God saw fit to educate Adam's offspring by allowing them to live in the consequences of his disobedience. It is a life lesson that will never be lost, so there is no need to ever allow it to happen again.

This life is full of misery and suffering...this is NOT the way God planned for us to live, but free will has to be free to express.....positively or negatively. Each has consequences. God was hoping that the humans would resist the devil's temptation in Eden, but he purposely targeted the woman to get to the man, and managed to divide his loyalties....and the rest as they say.....is history.

So the only other alternative is that God got the creation wrong? That Misery and suffering were not meant to be part of the Material World, that God is not Perfect?

I see that is the flaw in a material interpretation of the Bible which is a spiritual guide. The bible is very clear on this;

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Yes, I agree God wants us to get it right, that is why he sends His Messengers.

John 6:63 "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life."

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The trouble with the con artist who is loose in the world, is that he doesn't play fair...he will use any weakness in our character to lead us astray. He will appeal to our own desires and senses by misrepresenting God and turning him into a mere imperfect refection of ourselves.

I see all that exists in out own choices, unless you like to consider that there is a being much more clever than God that can steers us away from wise choices. I would see that as personal ignorance, as no one made me do it, I know I have made my choices.

Mostly people can not admit they have the capacity to get it wrong, that their own selves is the potential of Evil or Good. It is just as likely that it is your stance, your choices that are wrong and given the history of faith, a 99% chance.

Such is the quandary we all face.

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

If a human being reasoned poor choice, wrong choice, reasons for both and it belonged to a review in science about O a planet Earth body that they previously claimed was a self entity in space....travelled around the Sun in a cycle of 12.....proved to everyone a long time ago that science was known by that detail....also said that God O in its natural conditions had supported their highest superior human forms and that of a Garden Nature.

Then isn't it obvious that after the fact relativity is too late?

Now ask science today why science argues against itself all the time about everything that science says...yes science keeps quantifying but science is right.

What part of science is right is right actually?

The part that knew and idealised destruction and then caused it by machine conditions or the part of the self that first told self, if you do it, you will get attacked and changed?

Seeing natural was always the highest self ownership before any science choice as a human life?

Seems like science has proven to science that science is wrong....for if you are given natural advice first, and own natural your owned self....then you totally ignored as a male, a group of males as stated your own advice as a scientist and did it anyway.

How many times do you have to be programmed to re live the same event before your own human science program says.....I need to be re programmed so I stop destroying my own life?

 

[Deeje]

So the only other alternative is that God got the creation wrong? That Misery and suffering were not meant to be part of the Material World, that God is not Perfect?

Not at all....God created everything perfect, nothing was "wrong" with any of it, but because he created man in his own image, he made him different to all other earthly creation. In fact, all of God's children are free willed...even the angels.

The Bible's story is not complicated. All was perfect until free will was abused....and it was not first abused by humans.....the Bible indicates that an angel in a position of trust in the Garden, rebelled and misused his position to lure humans into worshipping him as a god. Angels had been with God in heaven long before the existence of the material creation, but until the creation of man, no intelligent creature was lower than they were. The angel who became satan apparently thought too much of his own magnificence and desired worship for himself....

"‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
“You were the model of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13 You were in Eʹden, the garden of God.

You were adorned with every precious stone. . .
And their settings and mountings were made of gold.

They were prepared on the day you were created.

14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.

You were on the holy mountain of God, and you walked about among fiery stones.

15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you. . . .
Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.
You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor." (Ezekiel 28:12-17)

....but his fellow angels were his equal, so now was his chance to get the lower humans to give him what he wanted.
He targeted the woman to get to the man...his loyalties were divided and it worked. Satan has been ruling this earth since he first got humans to leave God. (1 John 5:19)

Instead of terminating the rebels, God used their rebellion as a valuable life lesson. He stepped out of the picture and allowed the humans and the angels to see from first hand experience what happens when they disobey their Creator. By doing so he creates precedents for all time to come. No future rebel will be able to usurp God's position, or to disobey a direct command and get away with it ever again. Retribution will be swift.

That way free will is retained as the gift it was intended to be, and we can all get on with what God has planned for the future...whatever that happens to be.

I see that is the flaw in a material interpretation of the Bible which is a spiritual guide. The bible is very clear on this;

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"...this is what science tells us. So evil exists as an equal opposite of good. Remember though, in Eden, evil was the only thing God tried to keep from his human children. He never wanted them to even know what an evil thing was....but they abused their free will, believing the 'wannabe god' who lied to them. By unleashing a knowledge of evil into the world, that knowledge soon became action.....within one generation, a cold blooded murderer was produced. Humans have been killing one another ever since.

Yes, I agree God wants us to get it right, that is why he sends His Messengers.

Yes, he did send his messengers but more often than not those messages fell on deaf ears....but each time there was a warning, so it left no room for anyone to cry ignorance. If they failed to heed the warning, the Bible is full of the consequences that they faced. The Bible presents only one true God and the only authentic messengers sent by him are all recorded in the scriptures. God's last prophet according to the Bible, was Jesus.
If you wish to listen to the words of those who claim to speak from God but are not sent by him, that is your prerogative, as Jesus warned against false "Christs". We will all believe as our hearts incline us, but as I have already mentioned....
I have confidence in Jesus' words at John 6:44 and 65...

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him". . . .“This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

If we understand that it is God who draws us to his son, then we need not fret about what we believe.....if God is drawing us, satan can't....if satan is drawing us and we are going along willingly then God won't. Only those who see the deception will be prompted to turn in the other direction.

In the final judgment, I believe that we will all be where we have placed ourselves by our own choices and God will not interfere with our exercise of free will.......we will rightfully reap what we have sown.

John 6:63 "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life."

Taken out of context as people are want to do, what is this verse saying? That everything in the scriptures is spiritual and not to be taken literally?

In this instance, Jesus had just made a statement about "eating his flesh and drinking his blood" to which his audience responded.....“This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were murmuring about this, said to them: “Does this stumble you? . . . It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all. The sayings that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." . . . .
Because of this, many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him. 67 So Jesus said to the Twelve: “You do not want to go also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life. 69 We have believed and have come to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

....so Jesus was telling his disciples that he was speaking figuratively, not literally. But that is not the case with everything Jesus said....if there was a spiritual application to his words he would often go into more detail. Interestingly on this occasion, Jesus did not run after the ones who left in disgust.....he was more concerned about how his apostles felt about what he said.

 

[Deeje]

I see all that exists in out own choices, unless you like to consider that there is a being much more clever than God that can steers us away from wise choices. I would see that as personal ignorance, as no one made me do it, I know I have made my choices.

That "being" tried to tempt the son of God.....he is not more clever than God but he is more clever than us. Without God we are no match for him. Satan cannot 'make' us do anything...all he can do is set us up, like he did to Adam. Temptation is his his favorite weapon....he knows us better than we know ourselves. He has observed us all our lives....but so has God. God did not prevent the temptation of Jesus and he will not prevent him from tempting us...it is our opportunity to prove our faith and loyalty to God as Jesus did.....to the death if necessary.

Mostly people can not admit they have the capacity to get it wrong, that their own selves is the potential of Evil or Good. It is just as likely that it is your stance, your choices that are wrong and given the history of faith, a 99% chance.

Such is the quandary we all face.

Indeed.....but it is God who draws us.....we have the choices, but knowledge is power.....only the knowledge that God provides in his word acts as a shield to protect us from the crafty acts and deception of the devil. (Ephesians 6:11) You see, the trouble with claiming to accept the Bible, means that you can't ignore the bits that don't fit in with what you want to believe....we can't turn God into a reflection of ourselves by picking and choosing only the beliefs that suit us.

That is how I see it...

 

[rational experiences]

Science says, that MASS/energy is any created existed form owning form.

Science therefore said God O mass/energy owned form. His reasons as a scientist, he was a male, a group of males applying scientific relativity for science.

To begin with it is just stories.

Now if you want to argue theory, then what is relative in life today is the only living owned comparing that you can compare with or to....self as a human.

Natural spiritual aware humans do not pursue science or believe in what science quotes for a human practice via a human choice. So compare self as a human where a spiritual self needs to do comparing first.

Why a science human is a different thinker, as a chosen practice versus owning the EXACT same and MUTUAL lived life experience, human as everyone else.

Including the scientific biological knowledge that 2 human being parents have to exist first as humans to own human genetics. A mutated human life is born a baby owning changed DNA to look mutated, but still be a human as scientific information.

For today an ape can own a healthy baby, but an ape can give birth to an ape baby mutated. And science lives as a human being when it imposes thesis and theories as a scientist.

And it is your own group choice to make an agreement about human inferred information.....which spiritually by a natural human is referenced as being an egotist and also lying. For no one gave you instructions to be a scientist by human chosen practices, why that sort of information can be stated.

If a human being in science themes talks about stone and gems and jewels of the power of the God stone...then that theme is science. If he were born a baby human self and grew into being an egotistical scientist Satanist...then he was....a human Destroyer mentality who lies.

For CHERUBS are inferred to be human babies, who historically got irradiated mutated and got their baby images put into the clouds just like his lying adult male human brother self did as the status of JESUS when he changed natural cold radiation fusion......actually and factually.

And the story consciousness, natural to a theme about egotistical lying human statements is expressed in the writing of those documents to have a perusal and think about consciousness in human reality without trying to effectually claim, but I never wrote these stories...when you did as a human.

Babies as bodies and images born from the information of sperm and an ovary.....how you know as a scientist that this theme is a Satanic lie.

 

[sojourner]

I said: "well... this is going to fall on deaf ears and probably spark a flurry of page-long responses regurgitating unrelated bible passages that are poorly-exegeted"

LOL...and the only correctly exegeted interpretation is the one you agree with ....priceless.

Let me see if I can correct the poor exegesis you seem to rely on......


I sometimes cannot understand how a man of your supposed education can ask such ridiculous questions.

Why would Jesus teach us to pray for something that man would accomplish? In its entire history, has the human race demonstrated in any manner, shape or form, that it knows how to rule itself successfully?

What rulership did humans have at their beginning? Who was their rightful Sovereign and Lawgiver?...was it not God himself?
Now tell me how we lost God's rulership over us, and how the devil gained it? (1 John 5:19)

Luke 4:5-8
"And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 Therefore if You worship before me, it shall all be Yours.” 8 Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.’”

Who is bragging about the world's rulership being "handed over to him" and being able to give rulership to whomever he wished? God's Kingdom will "come" and take rulership away from the devil and his cronies (Daniel 2:44) and return the redeemed human race back to God. That is the whole purpose of the Kingdom.


Prayer is communication with God through the mediator that he appointed so that sinful humanity can retain communication with God.
By our prayers we convey to God our reliance on him to bring about his will "on earth as it is in heaven". To pray for the Kingdom does nothing to bring it about but it does much to show God where our loyalties lie. If we rely on man to bring permanent peace to the earth by waging war, then tell me when that has ever happened?
James tells us....."for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God." Being "no part of the world" means relying on God, not man. Or don''t you think he is in control?



The scriptures tell us that a chosen "few" were to be given the "heavenly calling" as potential 'kings and priests' assisting Christ in his role as King. (Revelation 20:6) The Kingdom's rule will last 1,000 years after which the perfected and sinless human race will undergo one final test and those who pass will inherit everlasting life on earth where God put us in the first place. Where do people get the idea that earth was only supposed to be a training ground for heaven?

Revelation 21:2-4 shows us who are ruled by this heavenly government....
"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”



Is "I think" the same as "God says"?



The "body of Christ" are the "chosen ones" who will take up positions in the Kingdom as "joint heirs"....kings and priests (Revelation 20:6).....so, over whom will these kings rule and for whom will they act as priests? All those in heaven are rulers and they have shed their sinful flesh so they do not need priests.
As the Revelation states...it is with "men" that God dwells...among his people on earth as he did in the days of ancient Israel. He was not physically present but ruled through his human representatives.

The coming of the Kingdom will mean the end of all human pain and suffering and even death itself will be a thing of the past, as it was completely missing from Eden until the humans merited the penalty for disobedience and brought death upon all their descendants.

You seem to get carried away with things that are of no consequence and unrelated to God's original purpose for this earth and human life upon it. What God starts, he finishes (Isaiah 55:11)
I see no correlation in your scenario to anything the Bible says about God's purpose in the beginning.
The Bible is one story from Genesis to Revelation.



That might be your evaluation of Jesus' words...but I take away something completely different from them. There is no "kin-dom".....Jesus never called it that and neither will we. You can't make it into something it never was by changing a word. The Kingdom is the King and his "dom"ain.

I am not one of those anointed for a heavenly role.....I know that I will not go to heaven because I have no desire to do so. My final destiny I hope to be here on a cleansed earth where all the former tragedy and trauma will have "passed away".

The majority of Jehovah's Witnesses on earth today are not going to heaven either. Those of the 'anointed' are the minority of our numbers for the reason being that the heavenly rulers are a finite number, chosen by God and given that promised holy spirit so as to recognize their anointing but hardly ever mentioning it. They are treated no differently to any other brother or sister in our spiritual family.....there is no rank, or title or position or distinctive clothing that puts any human in a position of power.....all are in positions of service....and no one is paid to do God's work. All our members are willing volunteers. We are all educated at the same school and our meetings do not involve rituals or liturgy....they involve Bible study. We stick as closely to the first century model as possible. Christendom has completely departed from that model.

You asked for my explanation and there it is.....

Yup. I was right. Deaf ears. Interminable post filled with meaningless self-righteousness.

You asked for my explanation and there it is.....

I patently didn't ask for an explanation from you. But you chose to plow ahead anyway to try to defend your poor theology. Typical.

 

[sojourner]

I don't know how anyone could think that humankind are not horribly flawed.....where is the perfection?

Don't you mean that humankind is horribly dirty? Dirt isn't a "flaw." "Flaw" indicates something inherent in the design -- a design flaw. To extend that theology, "God made humanity flawed." But that's not what Genesis says, is it.

is this what you think it means to be made in God's image?

You should ask yourself the same question.

This life is full of misery and suffering

This life is full of joy and beauty. Are you going to wallow in an illusion of misery, or are you going to scrape the scales from your eyes and embrace beauty?

God was hoping that the humans would resist the devil's temptation in Eden

"The devil" doesn't appear in Genesis. This is just bad theology, based on poor exegesis. Again.

 

[sojourner]

Not at all....God created everything perfect, nothing was "wrong" with any of it

Wait... you just said that "humankind is flawed." "Flawed" = "wrong." So which is it?

the Bible indicates that an angel in a position of trust in the Garden, rebelled and misused his position to lure humans into worshipping him as a god.

There's no angel in the garden. The bible indicates that it's a serpent.

Your posts indicate some kind of twisted love-affair with Satan. They bring that character up a lot, and in places where he does not appear. They indicate that he is as strong as God. I wonder if you've collected all of the action figures and collector's cards too?

 

[sojourner]

So the only other alternative is that God got the creation wrong? That Misery and suffering were not meant to be part of the Material World, that God is not Perfect?

I see that is the flaw in a material interpretation of the Bible which is a spiritual guide. The bible is very clear on this;

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Yes, I agree God wants us to get it right, that is why he sends His Messengers.

John 6:63 "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life."

Regards Tony

We don't have to suffer. Suffering is an illusion. The poverty we fear is an illusion. Our insecurity is an illusion. All the things America is getting wrong is based in this illusion. Yes, there is pain, and hunger, and want. But it's how we handle those things that causes suffering. We hold on to these things and allow them to dominate us. We practice "empowered victimhood" by defining ourselves by our injuries. But we don't have to do that. "Come to me all who travail and are heavy-laden, and I will refresh you." This is a great truth that we have forgotten. A wise spiritual teacher said that pain is the price of admission to embodiment. The wise person offers the pain of existence to God, places it on God's altar, and chooses beauty.

 

[Deeje]

Don't you mean that humankind is horribly dirty? Dirt isn't a "flaw." "Flaw" indicates something inherent in the design -- a design flaw. To extend that theology, "God made humanity flawed." But that's not what Genesis says, is it.

It is what is said in Romans 5:12. A genetic flaw was 'inherited' by the whole human race, from the actions of one man. Sin is a condition that affects the body, mind and spirit. There is no one who has dodged that bullet except Jesus. He was a son of God, not a son of Adam.

Genesis sets the scene, the rest of scripture provides a clearer understanding.....you should try reading the Bible instead of relying of your seminary training...it is apparently providing you with very poor exegesis and hiding so much from you.

This life is full of joy and beauty. Are you going to wallow in an illusion of misery, or are you going to scrape the scales from your eyes and embrace beauty?

Yep, sinful humans have made the world such a joyous place to live.....you think this is what God had in mind when he placed the first humans in paradise? There is still beauty in the world, but only in the places unpolluted by man and his greedy commercial grabs.....in how many of those places will we find humans living the paradise life?

"The devil" doesn't appear in Genesis. This is just bad theology, based on poor exegesis. Again.

Oh please...you think that the words in Ezekiel 28 applied to the King of Tyre?
Was he a 'covering cherub in the Garden of Eden'? Was he the epitome of magnificence as was described there....someone's exegesis is way off...but I don't see how it is mine....
Your beliefs do not seem to be based on the Bible at all and you show in so many ways that you are unacquainted with its teachings.

Wait... you just said that "humankind is flawed." "Flawed" = "wrong." So which is it?

Wait for what?....there is no "which"....God created perfection in all of his creation....but man through his abuse of free will, lost his perfection and sin is the result. Sin is what we see manifest in human behavior all over this earth. Its not rocket science, surely....? This is what the Bible explains quite clearly....but apparently you have something or someone, greater than scripture guiding your beliefs....?

There's no angel in the garden. The bible indicates that it's a serpent.

LOL.....and the angels mentioned in the Bible had no capability of materialization? They appeared to God's servants as men.....human in every way.
A cherub in the Bible is what? The Bible mentions them 92 times and distinguishes them from Seraphs...both are positions of High Rank among the angels. Cherubs appear to be the guardians. That is what a covering cherub is.....his assignment covered the whole scope on the human's activities. It was a position of trust.

If they can materialize in human form, then they can materialize in any form they choose.

Revelation 12:9 refers to satan as "that ancient serpent"...so we have no doubt who he was.
Again you show a sad illiteracy with regard to the Bible....no wonder you discount it so readily.

Your posts indicate some kind of twisted love-affair with Satan. They bring that character up a lot, and in places where he does not appear. They indicate that he is as strong as God. I wonder if you've collected all of the action figures and collector's cards too?

My posts show that I understand satan's role in our dilemma and the fact that he is the ruler of this world by God's permission....allowing him and all who follow him "enough rope"....this is all clearly stated in the Bible......again you should read it....

Suffering is an illusion. The poverty we fear is an illusion. Our insecurity is an illusion. All the things America is getting wrong is based in this illusion. Yes, there is pain, and hunger, and want. But it's how we handle those things that causes suffering. We hold on to these things and allow them to dominate us. We practice "empowered victimhood" by defining ourselves by our injuries.

Yep...tell that to the homeless. Tell that to the kids in war torn nations who have lost their parents and siblings. Tell it to the victims of domestic violence and rape...and the black lives matter protesters. How they handle those things is by voting in governments who continually fail to address these problems. Power corrupts them...or haven't you noticed? America is not the only country in this world falling apart through inept governance. The empowered victimhood is not exactly something they can rise above as they are victims of man's mismanagement of this planet like everyone else......what do you suggest they do? Take up arms and fight the system? Take themselves out to a wilderness and eke out a living for themselves with no reliance on anyone but themselves? They could, but how many would even know what to do to survive in that environment? We have surrendered our independence so gradually over time that self sufficiency is no longer an option for the majority. Our victimhood has been carefully planned and we are set up, ready for the next phase of governance that will shortly be introduced. Its all in Revelation....

But we don't have to do that. "Come to me all who travail and are heavy-laden, and I will refresh you." This is a great truth that we have forgotten.

"You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"...so say the words of an old song.....what did Jesus mean when he said the words you quoted above from Matthew 11:28?....how does Jesus refresh us? By allowing us to entertain the knowledge about his Kingdom and the wonderful blessings it will bring to this earth when it crushes all corrupt human governments out of existence, and replaces them as man's only government....God's Kingdom in the hands of his Christ will be the kind of rulership we only dream about. (Daniel 2:44) It will not come quietly, but those in line for its blessings do not need to lift a finger to bring it about. It will "come"....ready or not.

A wise spiritual teacher said that pain is the price of admission to embodiment. The wise person offers the pain of existence to God, places it on God's altar, and chooses beauty.

And which "wise spiritual teacher" said this...please identify him.

 

[sojourner]

It is what is said in Romans 5:12. A genetic flaw was 'inherited' by the whole human race, from the actions of one man. Sin is a condition that affects the body, mind and spirit. There is no one who has dodged that bullet except Jesus. He was a son of God, not a son of Adam.

Genesis sets the scene, the rest of scripture provides a clearer understanding.....you should try reading the Bible instead of relying of your seminary training...it is apparently providing you with very poor exegesis and hiding so much from you.

Yep, sinful humans have made the world such a joyous place to live.....you think this is what God had in mind when he placed the first humans in paradise? There is still beauty in the world, but only in the places unpolluted by man and his greedy commercial grabs.....in how many of those places will we find humans living the paradise life?



Oh please...you think that the words in Ezekiel 28 applied to the King of Tyre?
Was he a 'covering cherub in the Garden of Eden'? Was he the epitome of magnificence as was described there....someone's exegesis is way off...but I don't see how it is mine....
Your beliefs do not seem to be based on the Bible at al,l and you show in so many ways that you are unacquainted with its teachings.


Wait for what?....there is no "which"....God created perfection in all of his creation....but man through his abuse of free will, lost his perfection and sin is the result. Sin is what we see manifest in human behavior all over this earth. Its not rocket science, surely....? This is what the Bible explains quite clearly....but apparently you have something or someone, greater than scripture guiding your beliefs....?



LOL.....and the angels mentioned in the Bible had no capability of materialization? The appeared to God's servants as men.....human in every way.
A cherub in the Bible is what? The Bible mentions them 92 times and distinguishes them from Seraphs...both are positions of High Rank among the angels.Cherubs appear to be the guardians. That is what a covering cherub is.....his assignment covered the whole scope on the human's activities. It was a position of trust.

If they can materialize in human form, then they can materialize in any form they choose.

Revelation 12:9 refers to satan as "that ancient serpent"...so we have no doubt who he was.
Again you show a sad illiteracy with regard to the Bible....no wonder you discount it so readily.


My posts show that I understand satan's role in our dilemma and the fact that he is the ruler of this world by God's permission....allowing him and all who follow him "enough rope"....this is all clearly stated in the Bible......again you should read it....




Yep...tell that to the homeless. Tell that to the kids in war torn nations who have lost their parents and siblings. Tell it to the victims of domestic violence and rape...and the black lives matter protesters. How they handle those things is by voting in governments who continually fail to address these problems. Power corrupts them...or haven't you noticed? America is not the only country in this world falling apart through inept governance. The empowered victimhood is not exactly something they can rise above as they are victims of man's mismanagement of this planet like everyone else......what do you suggest they do? Take up arms and fight the system? Take themselves out to a wilderness and eke out a living for themselves with no reliance on anyone but themselves? They could, but how many would even know what to do to survive in that environment? We have surrendered our independence so gradually over time that self sufficiency is no longer an option for the majority. Our victimhood has been carefully planned and we are set up, ready for the next phase of governance that will shortly be introduced. Its all in Revelation....



"You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"...so say the words of an old song.....what did Jesus mean when he said the words you quoted above from Matthew 11:28?....how does Jesus refresh us? By allowing us to entertain the knowledge about his Kingdom and the wonderful blessings it will bring to this earth when it crushes all corrupt human governments out of existence, and replaces them as man's only government....God's Kingdom in the hands of his Christ will be the kind of rulership we only dream about. (Daniel 2:44) It will not come quietly, but those in line for its blessings do not need to lift a finger to bring it about. It will "come"....ready or not.



And which "wise spiritual teacher" said this...please identify him.

Such sad, small thinking. Such misunderstanding. You choose to see the world as damaged and dirty. You choose to see others who disagree with you as unknowledgeable and unenlightened. you choose to see that there is nothing we can do about any of that. It's bad medicine. I do not choose the bad medicine. I choose the good medicine of beauty, love, connectedness, and best intentions.

 

[Deeje]

Such sad, small thinking. Such misunderstanding. You choose to see the world as damaged and dirty. You choose to see others who disagree with you as unknowledgeable and unenlightened. you choose to see that there is nothing we can do about any of that. It's bad medicine. I do not choose the bad medicine. I choose the good medicine of beauty, love, connectedness, and best intentions.

Your denial of all the 'damaged and dirty stuff' in the world is duly noted......how do you fix it by denying it? You die and go to heaven where everything is hunky dory?..or what?

What is God doing about the state of the world Sojourner?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We don't have to suffer. Suffering is an illusion. The poverty we fear is an illusion. Our insecurity is an illusion. All the things America is getting wrong is based in this illusion. Yes, there is pain, and hunger, and want. But it's how we handle those things that causes suffering. We hold on to these things and allow them to dominate us. We practice "empowered victimhood" by defining ourselves by our injuries. But we don't have to do that. "Come to me all who travail and are heavy-laden, and I will refresh you." This is a great truth that we have forgotten. A wise spiritual teacher said that pain is the price of admission to embodiment. The wise person offers the pain of existence to God, places it on God's altar, and chooses beauty.

Agreed

I see suffering in this age comes from the Rejection of God's Messengers for this age. I see that is always the cause of suffering.

I see acceptance of the Message embraces God's will over one's own will.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It is what is said in Romans 5:12. A genetic flaw was 'inherited' by the whole human race, from the actions of one man. Sin is a condition that affects the body, mind and spirit. There is no one who has dodged that bullet except Jesus. He was a son of God, not a son of Adam.

God is all Loving and Just.

That statement reads that God is not all loving and not just. Every human punished because the actions of One Man? How would that work in our justice system? It would not because it is flawed reasoning.

Baha'u'llah has cleared it up and explains what the Bible offers.

Man is created at the edge of darkness and the beginning of light, he has all the material world in him, but also the potential of all the light. That is what it means to be made in God's Image.

Christ offered that we must be born again for that Light to shine from us, thus we can remain a material being or be born again in the Spirit. The Spirit empowers us to embrace what Christ offered and give our material lives over to service of all humanity.

The devil is in our choices.

Regards Tony

 

[Samantha Rinne]

I do believe that we have come to a crossroads whereas we are going to have decide which kind of country we want to be for the future. We are slipping and are likely to continue to slip even more unless we come to grip with what's ailing us in several areas.

I can elaborate, but I have to leave shortly.

I wonder what you think the actual problems are?

Because from where I stand, the way we are slipping is valuing "justice" and "feelings" over little things like history and culture.

Yes, there is historical racism. But you fail to understand what is more at stake here is the destruction of history.

"But it's a history of racism!"

Is it? Or is it a history of a nation that was inspired to be a "city on a hill" and "beacon of hope"?
An inspiration to other nations?

Blacks were emancipated in America. And the rest of Europe followed.

America stood against the Nazis and the Communists. And others followed.

We explored space, and so did others.

Over the years, this model has been an inspiration both from liberals and conservatives.

So what happens when we destroy our history? We become ashamed of our progress.

We knock over a statue of Columbus because Columbus may have been a racist, we do nothing to combat racism. But we do everything to send a message that we feel like America never ought to have been settled. Fine! You feel that way? Go back to wherever you came from. As for me, I happen to like my country, so maybe people more concerned about signalling virtue than actually protecting America as a positive model to how the world should behave, you are the problem.

Here's what a black woman said to people in CHAZ.

“Planned Parenthood kills us every day! Why don’t I see my brothers and my sisters outside Planned Parenthood? Where y’all at?”

They called her a "coon."

She continued, “You just want to get rid of the police. You get rid of the police and we’ll still go to the chop shop. We’ll still kill our babies. You get rid of the police and we’ll still kill one another. Why? Because we, as a black community, don’t have the fathers we need. We don’t have the fear of the lord!”

Black Woman To CHAZ Residents – “Planned Parenthood Kills Us Every Day”

Here's the real state of our country. Black on black violence. Black on black abortions.

The future of our country is not about giving little districts (which will eventually get smashed up by the US army resulting in more deaths and more unrest) to minority groups. It's changing the way we relate to people. Being a model to the rest of the world again.

It starts by not being afraid of our past, but accepting a future that could be.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It starts by not being afraid of our past, but accepting a future that could be.

The quandary is, what is the solution to what the future can be?

My view would be that the solution has a role model outside of current National models of rule.

Maybe a selection of the good aspects of all Nations, giving rule to an elected World Body!

Regards Tony

 

[sojourner]

Your denial of all the 'damaged and dirty stuff' in the world is duly noted......how do you fix it by denying it? You die and go to heaven where everything is hunky dory?..or what?

What is God doing about the state of the world Sojourner?

Who says I'm denying it? You didn't actually read the post, did you. I said that pain is the price we pay for admission to life. That's not denial. Yes, there are those things. But they aren't our natural state. That's not how it's meant to be for us. We can come into a more healed state by choosing how we react to the pain -- by seeing that it is, for us, an illusory state -- rather than letting it take us over and defining who we are. We "fix it" by calling it out for what it is and dealing with it in very positive ways, rather than by blaming everything on the devil.

 

[sojourner]

Agreed

I see suffering in this age comes from the Rejection of God's Messengers for this age. I see that is always the cause of suffering.

I see acceptance of the Message embraces God's will over one's own will.

Regards Tony

Or, it serves to bring our will into alignment with God's will. That way, we co-create with God, and take an active part in creating our destiny.

 

[Deeje]

God is all Loving and Just.

If you believe that the Bible is the word of God (or one of them) then if God's law through Moses demanded the death penalty for some capital offenses, does that mean that God is not as loving and kind as you think he should be? What does "just" mean in that context? The God of the Bible laid out his rules from the beginning...break them and the stated consequences will apply.

That statement reads that God is not all loving and not just. Every human punished because the actions of One Man? How would that work in our justice system? It would not because it is flawed reasoning.

Every human was not "punished", but inherited sin from our first father. (Romans 5:12) Sin in the Bible is likened to a debt that is incurred where, if the debtor could not pay, he could send either himself or his children to work for the one to whom the debt was owed, until it was paid off. If the man was a husband and father, then his family depended on him as provider, and so a child would be offered to serve until one of three things happened...

1) The debt was cancelled out of compassion on the part of the one to whom the debt was owed.

2) A benefactor (usually a close relative or friend) would pay out the debt.

3) The debtor was able to see the debt paid by his own labor or that of his son or daughter.

Jesus gave a parable that drove home the point that the debt we owe to God for our sins could not be paid in many thousands of our lifetimes because the amount was more than any human could raise. The parable in Matthew 18:21-35 shows us the value of Christ's sacrifice that God used to repay our debt to him. Our benevolent God cancelled the debt with Christ's life being offered willingly on our behalf.

Baha'u'llah has cleared it up and explains what the Bible offers.

Your prophet and his writings have nothing to do with the God of the Bible. The roots of your beliefs are in Islam, not Judaism or Christianity. Baha'i seems to have adopted all gods and messengers and squeezed them into one faith....that is way outside anything that is taught in the Bible...this is why I find it odd that Baha'i's can quote scripture when it agrees with what they want to believe, but ignore the scripture that argues against it.

Worship of the true God was never a "one size fits all" arrangement.....God's laws were very specific....if you wanted to worship the true God then you had to abide by his laws and live according to his requirements for worship. That rules out any other gods or messengers apart from the ones recorded in the Bible. Nowhere are we told to expect any other prophets after Jesus......who was to return and establish his kingdom on earth, ridding the world of sin and all who practice it. Where is that prophesy fulfilled in Baha'u'llah?

Man is created at the edge of darkness and the beginning of light, he has all the material world in him, but also the potential of all the light. That is what it means to be made in God's Image.

There was only one who was the 'image of God' after the falling away that occurred in Eden. Humans no longer reflected that image because of the effects of sin. They lost their perfection. Jesus was born sinless because his birth was not brought about by human means. Being the sinless son of God, rather than a sinful son of Adam, Jesus could pay the debt with a "life for a life"...the perfect sinless life that was lost for Adam's children was paid for with the sinless perfect life Christ offered.

Leviticus 24:19-20....
"If a man injures his fellow man, then what he has done should be done to him. 20 Fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, the same sort of injury he inflicted should be inflicted on him."
God's law demanded equivalency. Adam paid for his own sin with his own life.....Jesus came to offer his life on behalf of Adam's children and free them from the servitude we now have to sin and death. (Matthew 20:28) A ransom is a price demanded for the release of a captive. Jesus' life was the payment.

Christ offered that we must be born again for that Light to shine from us, thus we can remain a material being or be born again in the Spirit. The Spirit empowers us to embrace what Christ offered and give our material lives over to service of all humanity.

And where will I find in my scripture that Christians must be in the service of all humanity? If you are going to quote Jesus, then you had better quote all that he said, not just the parts that are chosen to support your own beliefs. A Christian must of necessity be a preacher of the Kingdom...in order to do that, we first have to know what the kingdom is, and how he is its King and what the rulership he brings to this earth is going to mean for redeemed mankind. (Revelation 21:1-4)

Being "born again" means being transformed in body and spirit to attain a position in God's heavenly Kingdom. It is reserved for those who experience the "first resurrection" (Revelation 20:6) It is a new birth to a whole new life for 'the chosen ones' who will be our kings and priests. But being "born again" is not required for those who will enjoy the Kingdom's rulership on earth.

I would have no issue at all with Baha'i if it weren't for the fact that they twist our scripture to suit their own beliefs. Stick to the words of your prophet and people would have so much more respect for you....at least you would have made a decision about who to worship instead of trying to be all things to everyone....God never did that. His worship was specific and his laws not negotiable.....

The devil is in our choices.

That does not fit the Bible's narrative at all.....the devil was there in the garden under assignment from God, but he abused his free will and hijacked the human race for his own selfish ends. Humans were not created sinful but abused a gift that was given them so that they could make decisions about things that took place on earth in his absence.They were his assigned caretakers and zookeepers. This is why they were created with his attributes and qualities.

Satan is spoken about in Job 1 & 2 as having free access to heaven in among the angels, and Job being afflicted by satan to the point where he lost all his worldly possessions and all 10 of his children in one terrible even after another...and as if that was not bad enough, he was then afflicted with a painful disease to the point of death.....how was that Job's choice?

Satan is also said to suffer a final blow after God is finished with him.....he and his hordes will be thrown into the "lake of fire" never to be seen again. Does that mean that we then lose our choices?

All through scripture satan the devil is spoken of as a real entity capable of very clever deception. As part of the sign of the end times, Jesus said that 'false Christ's and false prophets' would mislead many in these days.....(Matthew 24:24-25; Colossians 2:6-8) We need to choose our beliefs wisely.