The Health Care Bill Passes!

[FlyingTeaPot]

For better or worse, the health care bill has passed Congress and now goes to the President to sign into law.

Do you think this is overall a good thing or a bad thing? Why?

How will passage of this bill affect the Republican and Democratic parties in this year's elections?

Overall, I think its a good thing that the HC bill passed, even though its a watered down version of what Obama originally promised. I hope, like social security and medicare bills, that it is changed in the future. One small step at a time.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

Stop making yourself seem worse off than you really are. It's getting old.

As soon as everyone stops trying to tell me how to run my finances, I will.

I happen to be supporting a family of four with no government handouts. How is everyone else here doing?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Reality check: even with this legislation I would be paying nearly $4,000 a year in private health insurance premiums, with my income of $25,000/year that's about 16% of my income. It's only a little less for other grad students at my university. So you could raise income taxes by 10% to pay for universal health care, and it would still be worth it for me and probably thousands of graduate students across the country.

IMO, you probably wouldn't have to raise them that much, if at all.

I think it's worth pointing out something: mball and I both just did the math and found that we pay the same percentage of our incomes in taxes, however, my taxes cover my universal health insurance as well as all the normal services that we both receive.

There are savings to be had if your representatives are willing to look for them.

 

[Gentoo]

As soon as everyone stops trying to tell me how to run my finances, I will.

Once again, you've missed the point.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As soon as everyone stops trying to tell me how to run my finances, I will.

Heh... I hope you don't think I'm doing that. I'm just disputing factual claims that you brought up in a debate.

I happen to be supporting a family of four with no government handouts. How is everyone else here doing?

It's just me and my wife for now. She works too hard, but on the whole we're both doing fine, thanks!

 

[Draka]

As soon as everyone stops trying to tell me how to run my finances, I will.

I happen to be supporting a family of four with no government handouts. How is everyone else here doing?

You claim VA disability yet work a full time job. How does that work? I'm not too sure about VA disability, but if you were getting state disability and they found out you were working a full time job your disability payments would be stopped and, depending on how long you were collecting disability while working, they could even go so far as to garnish your wages to recover the falsely paid money you received. So how does that work? How do you get paid for having a disability (which as far as I know means you either can't work at all or are limited in the work you can do) AND have a full time job at the same time?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

You claim VA disability yet work a full time job. How does that work? I'm not too sure about VA disability, but if you were getting state disability and they found out you were working a full time job your disability payments would be stopped and, depending on how long you were collecting disability while working, they could even go so far as to garnish your wages to recover the falsely paid money you received. So how does that work? How do you get paid for having a disability (which as far as I know means you either can't work at all or are limited in the work you can do) AND have a full time job at the same time?

AFAIK, Jen, veterans can get varying degrees of disability compensation based on the degree of their injury. Many disabled vets can and do work full-time unless they are termed "unemployable" at which time the VA compensates for them 100%.

 

[enchanted_one1975]

You claim VA disability yet work a full time job. How does that work? I'm not too sure about VA disability, but if you were getting state disability and they found out you were working a full time job your disability payments would be stopped and, depending on how long you were collecting disability while working, they could even go so far as to garnish your wages to recover the falsely paid money you received. So how does that work? How do you get paid for having a disability (which as far as I know means you either can't work at all or are limited in the work you can do) AND have a full time job at the same time?

Working is allowed while receiving a VA benefit. There is no cap on income earned while receiving the benefit. It's a great deal. It is unlike state or social security affiliated benefits. As nice as it is though I am going to be giving up my job soon and relying only on my benefit until further notice. My injuries are getting worse and I have to take care of myself. I am not designated to be 100% disabled, by the way.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Finances aren't really the issue here.

They tell me that you can go to Hell for lying. At least admitting that you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

The issue is I will spend my money how I want.

As do we.

I pay taxes.

As do we.

Is half for me too much to ask for, especially when I am the one out here busting my butt?

We pay the same taxes you do, Enchanted. We work for a living, just like you do.

Are there some bottom feeding, freeloading Democrats out there? You betcha!
Are there some bottom feeding, freeloading Republicans out there? You betcha!

I guess we disagree when it comes to letting 30 million people do without insurance, just to be sure that we are spiteful towards the freeloaders. You seem to think that that is a good solution to the problem. We don't.

 

[Autodidact]

Okay, you know what? I don't care of any of you believe whether or not I can afford mandatory insurance. Finances aren't really the issue here. The issue is I will spend my money how I want. I pay taxes. If the government wants to spend the tax dollars I give them on healthcare, roads, or a big bag of bubblegum they are going to do it. There is no reason to tell people they have to spend what's left on certain things. Half of my household income already goes back to the government in various taxes. Is half for me too much to ask for, especially when I am the one out here busting my butt?

Oh, I see, you're retracting everything you said earlier. Now your issue is your personal freedom. O.K., let me ask you this: if an uninsured member of your family contracts a serious illness, who is going to pay for their care?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I happen to be supporting a family of four with no government handouts.

If you look a bit more closely, I bet you'll find plenty of "government handouts."

After all, foodstamps and Medicare (etc) aren't the only federally funded items that you benefit from.

Examples:

Maintanence of Roads
School funding
Federal grants for medical research
Federal grants for adult education
Federal grants for fire, EMT, and police services (especially now through the Patriot Act)
Federal funding for clean water
Tax credits for recycling services

 

[Gunfingers]

 

[Troublemane]

I am gonna take the typical conservative view on this one.

is it all right for you to give your money to a homeless person? yes. is it all right for you to give your money to a homelesss person you know is going to just take that money and spend it on drugs?...yes. regardless what they do with it, its okay for you to do whatever you want with YOUR money.

is it okay to take money from someone else at the point of a gun, and give it to a homeless person? whether it will help them or not, whether you believe it is the right thing to do or not, whether you are going to save their life or not, is it right for you to pull out a gun and point it at a stranger and take their money and give it to someone else?

no, it is not, and never is.

its exactly the same mentality as those right wingers who think they are morally correct to tell homosexuals they can't get married. why is it that liberals, who have no problem criticizing neo-cons for their stance on gay marriage, cant see it when they are doing the exact same thing? trying to force their view of "social justice" down everyone else's throat?

the difference is, the gay marriage issue doesnt cost billions of dollars in the middle of the worst recession since the great depression. (i dont support ban on gay marriage btw, but neither do i condone forcing other people to pay for my medical bills)

 

[Reverend Rick]

I am gonna take the typical conservative view on this one.

is it all right for you to give your money to a homeless person? yes. is it all right for you to give your money to a homelesss person you know is going to just take that money and spend it on drugs?...yes. regardless what they do with it, its okay for you to do whatever you want with YOUR money.

is it okay to take money from someone else at the point of a gun, and give it to a homeless person? whether it will help them or not, whether you believe it is the right thing to do or not, whether you are going to save their life or not, is it right for you to pull out a gun and point it at a stranger and take their money and give it to someone else?

no, it is not, and never is.

its exactly the same mentality as those right wingers who think they are morally correct to tell homosexuals they can't get married. why is it that liberals, who have no problem criticizing neo-cons for their stance on gay marriage, cant see it when they are doing the exact same thing? trying to force their view of "social justice" down everyone else's throat?

the difference is, the gay marriage issue doesnt cost billions of dollars in the middle of the worst recession since the great depression. (i dont support ban on gay marriage btw, but neither do i condone forcing other people to pay for my medical bills)

:clap frubals

 

[Buttercup]

I happen to be supporting a family of four with no government handouts. How is everyone else here doing?

I'm an Independent who makes a six figure income off my hard working business. Believe me, if someone pays a lot of taxes, it's me.

Still, I won't mind paying more to subsidize a reformed health care plan. It's long overdue and even in its infant state, it's hopeful.

 

[Autodidact]

Federal income tax, state income tax, social security tax, medicaid/medicare taxes, sales tax, telecommunication tax, utility tax, and property tax. Some people even pay local county and/or city income tax. The government doesn't want you to actually look at the numbers and see how much you pay. I dare anyone that is living independently (ie: no government aid, no dorm room, no mommy help) to look at your gross pay and look what is left at the end of the year.

You're not big on facts, are you? According to this site, you, as a low income family, had a total tax burden in 1985 of around 22%. Since then it's gone down. That's federal, state, local, etc.

 

[Troublemane]

If you look a bit more closely, I bet you'll find plenty of "government handouts."

After all, foodstamps and Medicare (etc) aren't the only federally funded items that you benefit from.

Examples:

Maintanence of Roads
School funding
Federal grants for medical research
Federal grants for adult education
Federal grants for fire, EMT, and police services (especially now through the Patriot Act)
Federal funding for clean water
Tax credits for recycling services

this is a fairly common argument i have heard. people claiming that anything from/by the government qualifies as 'socialism'

however....building and maintanence of roads= government contracts are awarded to contractors. roads are built by private companies, who compete for the contract (except for haliburton...)

grants for medical research, adult education, etc....any kind of government grant is either from tax revenues, or is through some kind of endowment. government is incapable of "creating money" they must take it from someone who makes it.

the space program...again, a government project, funded by taxpayers and run by private corporations. nasa did not invent the space shuttle...lockheed martin, boeing, those companies were the ones who built it.

government merely creates the standards by which everyone has to operate...safety standards, building codes, etc. And most of those are put in place because of lawyers and insurance companies. But nope, sorry, daddy. Government never creates anything. They can only put out the contract and allow private companies to do the work.:sorry1:

 

[Autodidact]

Working is allowed while receiving a VA benefit. There is no cap on income earned while receiving the benefit. It's a great deal. It is unlike state or social security affiliated benefits. As nice as it is though I am going to be giving up my job soon and relying only on my benefit until further notice. My injuries are getting worse and I have to take care of myself. I am not designated to be 100% disabled, by the way.

But it is a "government handout," no?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Er, folks.....

We forgot that some people are self employed and do not get matching funds on social security from their employer, so they pay twice as much as everyone else.

Don't forget tax on gasoline.

In my state we pay a kind of personal property tax when we renew our license plates. I pay several thousand dollars a year just to renew my boat sticker. Cars and trucks are based on book value. License plates here could be as cheap as 35 dollars or as high as several thousand per car.

Liquor tax

Cigarette tax

We now have an indoor suntan tax

I don't think it would be too much to assume that half of some folks income is payed in taxes.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

its exactly the same mentality as those right wingers who think they are morally correct to tell homosexuals they can't get married. why is it that liberals, who have no problem criticizing neo-cons for their stance on gay marriage, cant see it when they are doing the exact same thing? trying to force their view of "social justice" down everyone else's throat?

the difference is, the gay marriage issue doesnt cost billions of dollars in the middle of the worst recession since the great depression. (i dont support ban on gay marriage btw, but neither do i condone forcing other people to pay for my medical bills)

Is it the same, though?

I admit, I'm rather conservative in some of my views on government control. But my taxes have already paid for war, why not pay for something that may help another (and me, hopefully)?

For me, a society is built around the promise of general welfare: we band together so that the whole may better support the individual. If we all chip in a little, then we may accomplish a lot.

Overly idealistic? Maybe. And I won't pretend I completely understand the politics and economic subtleties of this bill. But I hope that the ideals behind it will eventually win out. For me, it's a better bet than leaving it to the profit-driven corporate government.