The Myths of Christianity

[fallingblood]

you did not, you put up a link that provided information that a soul lived on after death even if a short period and even if yahwey or el induced said time period. this is still a afterlife.

Actually I did. It was on the last page. It is not my fault if you fail to read what I post. You even actually addressed said post. Here is a link to it http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2768926-post146.html

 

[fallingblood]

and here is when, why, and where your incorrect.

even the christian version of a afterlife is nothing more then having your soul live on.


To believe a soul lives on after physical death is in fact afterlife.

Show that to be true. Verses please. And specifically, show that to be true for the ancient Hebrews throught their developing ideology.

Believing in a soul does not mean one believes in an after life.

 

[fallingblood]

the article you post contradicts this statement as noted above. Your slipping Dustin.

By the way, I wish you luck on your new webpage. Ive been following you on facebook

It doesn't contradict that. And thanks.

 

[arcanum]

I believes the evidence has been presented, outhouse is going to believe what he wants to believe.

 

[cablescavenger]

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal

What is the origin of the myth?
“The early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul’s immortality and thought of the soul as being created by God and infused into the body at conception.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 11, page 25.

What does the Bible say?
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.
Regarding the creation of the first human soul, the Bible says: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul [Hebrew, ne´phesh].”—Genesis 2:7

The Hebrew word ne´phesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

The doctrine of the immortality of the soul raised questions: Where do souls go after death? What happens to the souls of the wicked? When nominal Christians adopted the myth of the immortal soul, this led them to accept another myth—the teaching of hellfire.
Compare these Bible verses: Ecclesiastes 3:19; Matthew 10:28; Acts 3:23



From: Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site

FACT:

At death a person ceases to exist

There was me thinking it was real.

Back to worshipping cats I suppose
:bkcat: :bkcat: :bkcat: :bkcat::bkcat:

 

[outhouse]

Actually I did. It was on the last page. It is not my fault if you fail to read what I post. You even actually addressed said post. Here is a link to it http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2768926-post146.html

Fail

That does not say a soul does not go on, that only states that when a physical body dies is stays dead. JUST like the christian version.

 

[fallingblood]

Fail

That does not say a soul does not go on, that only states that when a physical body dies is stays dead. JUST like the christian version.

It states that when one dies, they die. It doesn't say that a soul goes on. It doesn't say there is some afterlife at all. It says they die.

It doesn't speak of a soul at all and thus we can assume that either at that time they didn't have an idea of a soul, or that the soul also died.

 

[outhouse]

It doesn't contradict that. And thanks.

really,????

here's a form of how one's self survives. that is a afterlife. not full but there are talking about existance after death.

an existence that is barely existence at all, in which a "shadow" or "shade" of the former self survives

." And Saul knew that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance. Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" (I Sam. 28:13-15) (my emphasis)

here a man comes back after death

Here the dead (at least Samuel) are viewed as "gods" of sorts, resting below in Sheol, but potentially capable of "coming back"–after being "disturbed"–and participating in the life of the living to the extent of even knowing the future.

a individual case, but surely death was not the end for this chap.

The practice of consulting the spirits of the dead was strictly forbidden in both the Torah and Prophets, but it obviously went on persistently (see Deut. 18:11; Isa. 8:19, 29:4).

so here they had to have laws stoppin the people talking to the dead LOL

and they state it happened all the time. not dead after death I see

Throughout this period Israelites apparently thought that the dead could be consulted on behalf of the living. This indicates that their view of the state of the dead in Sheol below was not entirely static. Although generally pictured "at rest," such spirits could assume special power and still have verbal intercourse with the living world above

tell me they believed the soul was dead if they are talking to souls

here the soul is clearly is still alive.

Psalms 73:18-26 and 49:13-15, which contrast the fate of the wicked as perishing in Sheol with that of the righteous, who will somehow be "ransomed" from its power.

How will you back peddle out of this ??

 

[fallingblood]

really,????

here's a form of how one's self survives. that is a afterlife. not full but there are talking about existance after death.

here a man comes back after death

a individual case, but surely death was not the end for this chap.

so here they had to have laws stoppin the people talking to the dead LOL

and they state it happened all the time. not dead after death I see


tell me they believed the soul was dead if they are talking to souls

here the soul is clearly is still alive.


How will you back peddle out of this ??

So because there is a few exceptions, that overturns what generally is thought to be true? That is a poor argument. One can find exceptions to a variety of rules, that does not overturn the rule. To suggest such is ridiculous.

If we look at how it generally was, a dead person was simply dead. Yes, there are exceptions, but that hardly matters.

Also, as I have mentioned, ideas changed over time. They did not have a set of ideas that was always there. Instead, we see an evolution in thought. Yet, we see the Torah and really much of the OT being silent on the subject of an afterlife. Even today, there is not a set idea.

As a note, it should be mentioned that the Sadducees also didn't have a view of the afterlife. So again, we see at times, and in certain groups, there was no idea of an afterlife.

 

[outhouse]

I believes the evidence has been presented, outhouse is going to believe what he wants to believe.

you believe wrong again.

Afterlife - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The afterlife (also referred to as life after death, the Hereafter, the Next World, or the Other Side) is the belief that a part of, or essence of, or soul of an individual, which carries with it and confers personal identity, survives the death of the body of this world and this lifetime, by natural or supernatural means, in contrast to the belief in eternal oblivion after death. In some popular views, this continued existence often takes place in a spiritual realm, and in other popular views, the individual may be reborn into this world and begin the life cycle over again. In this latter view, such rebirths and deaths may take place over and over again continuously until the individual gains entry to a spiritual realm. Major views on the afterlife derive from religion, esotericism and metaphysics.



now that we have the definition out of the way, maybe you can pay attention to the real evidence


The Talmud offers a number of thoughts relating to the afterlife.


The Book of Enoch describes Sheol as divided into four compartments for four types of the dead: the faithful saints who await resurrection in Paradise


The book of 2 Maccabees gives a clear account of the dead awaiting a future resurrection and judgment


The Zohar describes Gehenna not as a place of punishment for the wicked but as a place of spiritual purification for souls.


Jewish mystics who believed in reincarnation simply accepted it as a divine reality.


Rabbi Shraga Simmons commented that within the Bible itself, the idea [of reincarnation] is intimated in Deut. 25:5-10, Deut. 33:6 and Isaiah 22:14, 65:6

"Let Reuben live and not die..." (Deuteronomy 33:6) to mean that Reuben should merit the World to Come directly, and not have to die again as result of being reincarnated.


, Nachmanides (Ramban 1195-1270), attributed Job's suffering to reincarnation, as hinted in Job's saying "God does all these things twice or three times with a man, to bring back his soul from the pit to...the light of the living' (Job 33:29,30)."[






World to Come - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The World to Come, or more properly the Hebrew transliteration Olam Haba, is an important part of Jewish eschatology. Although Judaism concentrates on the importance of the Earthly world (Olam HaZeh — "this world"), all of classical Judaism posits an afterlife.[citation needed] The Hereafter is known as Olam HaBa (the "world to come"), Gan Eden (the Heavenly "Garden of Eden") and Gehinom ("Purgatory").[1][2][3] According to religious Judaism, any non-Jew who lives according to the Seven Laws of Noah is regarded as a Righteous Gentile, and is assured of a place in the world to come, the final reward of the righteous.





from 1200 BC to 600 BC ancient hebrews were polytheistic. And every religion that influenced their religion had a concept of a afterlife.

There is no reason at all to think they were magically different.

 

[outhouse]

It states that when one dies, they die.

fAIL AGAIN

it states when a physical body dies it stays dead.

they are not talking about the soul, in which they believed in

 

[outhouse]

thus we can assume that either at that time they didn't have an idea of a soul,

this is almost to the point of ignorance on the subject

 

[outhouse]

So because there is a few exceptions, that overturns what generally is thought to be true?

its not a few


it is overwhelming through all text.

 

[outhouse]

Also, as I have mentioned, ideas changed over time. They did not have a set of ideas that was always there. Instead, we see an evolution in thought.

this is a general statement that applies to the whole bible



I asked you to provide evidence that the hebrews didnt not believe in a soul. you have provided nothing.

I asked when? where? and why? fact is, you dont know.

 

[outhouse]

this is open for all to refute, because so far. Every attempt has failed to refute ancient hebrews had no concept of a afterlife.


let start with Sheol

Sheol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Sheol (

/ˈʃiːoʊl/ shee-ohl or /ˈʃiːəl/ shee-əl; Hebrew שְׁאוֹל Šʾôl) is the "grave", "pit", or "abyss" in Hebrew.[1][2] She'ol[3] is the earliest conception of the afterlife in the Jewish scriptures




Start there, refute that please

 

[outhouse]

here is also a belief of a soul existing afterlife.

It is a place of darkness to which all dead go, regardless of the moral choices made in life, and where they are "removed from the light of God" (see the Book of Job). In the Tanakh sheol is the common destination of both the righteous and the unrighteous flesh, as recounted in Ecclesiastes and Job. But the righteous souls went in the "bosom of Abraham", contrarily the impious souls went in the "torments".

 

[outhouse]

As regards the origin not of the term but of the concept, the Jewish Encyclopedia considers more probable the view that it originated in animistic conceits: "With the body in the grave remains connected the soul (as in dreams): the dead buried in family graves continue to have communion (comp. Jer. xxxi. 15). Sheol is practically a family grave on a large scale. Graves were protected by gates and bolts; therefore Sheol was likewise similarly guarded. The separate compartments are devised for the separate clans, sects, and families, national and blood distinctions continuing in effect after death.


continuing in effect after death

would be the key phrase

 

[fallingblood]

fAIL AGAIN

it states when a physical body dies it stays dead.

they are not talking about the soul, in which they believed in

Show, with specific scripture, that they believed in a soul at this time. More so, show that they thought that the soul didn't die along with the body. You keep repeating yourself without providing any evidence. From what I showed, they saw death to be the end. I provided the scripture as you asked and now you simply dismiss it. Show me why it doesn't mean what I am saying.

Please stop with you tactic of simply dismissing the points I bring up without actually showing why they are wrong. Meaning, you have to address the scriptures.

 

[fallingblood]

this is a general statement that applies to the whole bible



I asked you to provide evidence that the hebrews didnt not believe in a soul. you have provided nothing.

I asked when? where? and why? fact is, you dont know.

You never asked me to provide anything regarding the soul. You asked me to provide scripture showing that at least at certain times, Jews did not believe in an afterlife. I showed that, and you have constantly refused to address that issue. Instead to jump around to a bunch of ideas that either you will not support, or that has nothing to do with what I am speaking about.

All you can show is that at times, they believed in an afterlife. I don't doubt that. What I am saying is that at other times, they say death as the end. The Sadducees are a great example. As well are the verses I supplied. It should also be mentioned that not all Jews today recognize an afterlife (and I am talking about religious Jews) instead they are interested in this world.

The reason they can do this is because the Hebrew Bible has no definite teachings on the afterlife.

As a side note, you may want to refrain from plagiarizing as you have done with a few of your posts.

 

[outhouse]

Sheol (

/ˈʃiːoʊl/ shee-ohl or /ˈʃiːəl/ shee-əl; Hebrew שְׁאוֹל Šʾôl) is the "grave", "pit", or "abyss" in Hebrew.[1][2] She'ol[3] is the earliest conception of the afterlife in the Jewish scriptures

Until you can refute this you have failed.


you have also failed to show a period in which any hebrew has not believed in a soul.



Since they have always believed in a soul and a afterlife. You cannot refute it with scripture stating a physical body dies.