The Qur'aan Cosmological Model: A delineation of the Origin, Evolution and End of the Universe

[dust1n]

That is a good question to ask but the better question to ask is this, "How is it possible that such questions like that in modern cosmology can be explained in the Qur'aan. If it is so then should it not at least be investigated.

The Qur'an (if I understand from your argument) states that Allah will collapse the universe instead of letting it expand it forever. But we don't that this will happen and have no reason to believe so. It's bit of a confirmation bias to just assume that it will happen...

 

[al-amiyr]

Why is the context of rolling up the skies so specifically like that of a two dimensional rolling (such as with a parchment)? Doesn't that seem like an unrealistic way for a Big Crunch to occur? Or are you contending that in the QCM, Allah will overcome the accelerated expansion in some bizarre method such as making the universe two dimensional and rolling it up?

Also, supposing that we're talking about a future miracle here, how can anyone hope to even attempt to falsify the model?

Very good questions but perfectly answerable.
Remember I said in post # 57

For the sake of not wanting to be accused of not faithfully rendering the appropriate Qur'aanic verses I have decided to present the translations of mostly non-Muslim scholars to remove any such doubts. ...Remember these are only translations and not the real Qur'aan which is in the perfect branch of the Arabic language which Arabs in the world do not speak.
... After I have presented the second of the two Qur'aanic cosmological verses in posts to follow I shall begin with the detailed analysis. ...Then we will be able to progress and see whether this Model will lead us to The Theory of Everything or die an ignominious death.

The universe according to the QCM is in a state of run away (FiRaaR) expansion. But somewhere beyond that the waves of the universe shall be halted and there at the furthermost horizon space and time shall remain for sometime parallel with the Y-axis.Having been 'gripped' ALLAAH will bring the universe back in a spiral motion all faster an faster with the result that a hollow 'big crunch' will form because of this angular momentum. That is the type of behaviour the universe shall undergo. But the details of all of that further on when we shall get there.
I have not heard any comment on the first QCM verse presented.
I am now working on presenting the QCM verses directly from the Qur'aan in Arabic as it was revealed to the prophet (S+) with full explanations of the key terms. They will be easy to understand. Then thereafter the details of the QCM shall only really begin.

For now I can say that the Qur'aan categorically states that this universe shall not have departed with 'A Great Good Bye'. Henceforward I shall coin a new term for this 'The Great Good Bye' Universe.
The other questions I shall address in subsequent posts.
Welcome back! Welcome back! Oh! You who have been greatly moved.Rejuvination and Reconstruction must begin.

 

[Meow Mix]

The universe according to the QCM is in a state of run away (FiRaaR) expansion.

Wanted to point out quickly: this doesn't appear to be clear using the Quran verses alone -- that there is an expansion; and that it's accelerating. All we know from the verses (assuming we interpret it in this way) is that there was something like a singularity* and that it was "clove asunder." That doesn't imply an accelerated expansion without using normal cosmological data to reach that conclusion.

(* -- Also, note that singularities are outdated concepts in modern cosmology!)

Perhaps that isn't a big deal -- I don't know if your goal is to use both the Quran *and* cosmological data, or to use the Quran alone to explain the cosmological data.

I have not heard any comment on the first QCM verse presented.

Well, I've already presented my main objection against it; so I opted not to just repeat it and to give the benefit of the doubt while you expound on your argument. Just to refresh, my main objection is that it seems more likely to me that this interpretation of the verse having to do with a cosmological event like the Big Bang Event is an example of something like the Forer Effect -- where perhaps the original author was just using flowery, non-literal language; but in modern times the poetic language is being interpreted (against the author's possible intent) literally.

I gave the example of how some aspects of the Bhagavad Gita appear to describe nuclear weaponry; and that some Hindus and pseudohistorians have indeed proposed that it really does describe nuclear devices (and thus has "knowledge ahead of its time") -- but that it's far more likely that it's just an ancient text using hyperbole and metaphor; and that any resemblance to an actual atomic explosion is coincidental.

I think the passage is vague enough (i.e. lacks specific details of a Big Bang Event and cosmological affairs) that it could be a similar example. Of course, it might describe a Big Bang Event; but then again the Bhagavad Ghita might describe a nuclear device. I think it's difficult to feel really convinced by the passage.

 

[al-amiyr]

Wanted to point out quickly: this doesn't appear to be clear using the Quran verses alone -- that there is an expansion; and that it's accelerating. All we know from the verses (assuming we interpret it in this way) is that there was something like a singularity* and that it was "clove asunder." That doesn't imply an accelerated expansion without using normal cosmological data to reach that conclusion.

(* -- Also, note that singularities are outdated concepts in modern cosmology!)

Perhaps that isn't a big deal -- I don't know if your goal is to use both the Quran *and* cosmological data, or to use the Quran alone to explain the cosmological data.

Remember I said that I am going to present the Arabic verses of the QCM with full explanations of the terminology. I am about going to do that now in the next posts. It will be seen that the translators have not accurately portrayed the QCM terminology but I have nevertheless presented them to give an idea of the subject.
I am going to present the correct terms as they are described in the authoritative dictionaries. And from there I shall go forward to produce the QCM.
Also I have never mentioned that the QCM mentions singularities which I have already discarded over fifteen years ago. I have already extracted a great amount of information from the QCM from that 'initial' state.
In fact I can rely on the QCM alone to describe every detail of the universe but it is always good to have a peep at the universe to check if one were on track.You will notice that I am not jumping to what other cosmologists agree upon. I am faithfully presenting the QCM's view which I am going to begin to explain.

There are also other QCM verses that throw light upon the matter. I give you as an example the following Qur'aanic translation of a verse done in 1980 by a Jewish scholar who have switched over to Islaam. In the commentary upon the verse he states that the Qur'aan says that the universe is going to expand forever and that is before it was established to be such.

[FONT=&quot](9) - [/FONT]1980[FONT=&quot]translation [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]---[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]AND IT IS We who have built the universe with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.[/FONT]​

Muhammad Asad pub. 1980​

Formerly Leopold Weiss​

Jewish Scholar turn Muslim

​

I shall from the next post begin to set out the Qur'aan Cosmological model
​

 

[Meow Mix]

Ok, that verse does respond to my objection about the expansion appearing in the Quran. I'll await your exposé

 

[Revoltingest]

This discussion reminds me of my youngest sister's ability to predict the future by her dreams.
She could only make accurate predictions in retrospect, but properly interpreted, they were accurate.
Her dreams could never be interpreted to be predictive in advance.

 

[al-amiyr]

This discussion reminds me of my youngest sister's ability to predict the future by her dreams.
She could only make accurate predictions in retrospect. The dreams could never be interpreted to be predictive in advance.

What makes the analyzer analyze in this way?

 

[al-amiyr]

The Qur'an (if I understand from your argument) states that Allah will collapse the universe instead of letting it expand it forever. But we don't that this will happen and have no reason to believe so. It's bit of a confirmation bias to just assume that it will happen...

There is no assumption.
The universe said 'A Great Good Bye'.

 

[Revoltingest]

What makes the analyzer analyze in this way?

Would you refer to me or to my goofy sister?

 

[al-amiyr]

Would you refer to me or to my goofy sister?

To the great revolutionary roaming the universe.

 

[Revoltingest]

To the great revolutionary roaming the universe.

I'm lost.

 

[al-amiyr]

This discussion reminds me of my youngest sister's ability to predict the future by her dreams.
She could only make accurate predictions in retrospect, but properly interpreted, they were accurate.
Her dreams could never be interpreted to be predictive in advance.

I'm lost.

Then commenteth not upon that which thou undestandeth not!

 

[Photonic]

Then commenteth not upon that which thou undestandeth not!

Yay for cognitive bias!

 

[Meow Mix]

Yay for cognitive bias!

I'm pretty sure he was joking

 

[Photonic]

I'm pretty sure he was joking

I know. I was pointing out his general assumptions based off his religion as reverse proofs in hindsight.

Dunno why I quoted that particular post. :drool:

 

[al-amiyr]

I'm pretty sure he was joking

Who was joking?

 

[Meow Mix]

Who was joking?

I don't know anymore :sad4: :bonk:

 

[idav]

Einstein's theory predicted the expansion of the universe, but he didn't want to believe it, so he modified the theory. Are you saying that the Qur'aan makes predictions, but that the scholars of the Qur'aan don't want to believe them, so they ignore them?

If a fortune teller could only predict things after they happen, I think you'd agree with me that he's a pretty bad fortune teller.

I think the quraan writers had at least basic knowledge of the stars. It wasn't impossible to find someone who was knowledgable in those areas.

 

[al-amiyr]

I don't know anymore :sad4: :bonk:

Savo 'lass a lalaith

 

[al-amiyr]

I think the quraan writers had at least basic knowledge of the stars. It wasn't impossible to find someone who was knowledgable in those areas.

In fact the Qur'aan Cosmological Model contains greater detail and accuracy than Einsteins Theory. Einstein was wrong. He did not predict the expansion. No one must be made to have been correct in his prediction if he or she was not. I am in the process of presenting everything in this thread.