The Return of Christ

[Link]

Shahr ibn Hawshab said, “Al-Hajjaj said to me, ‘There is a verse in the Book of Allah that has wearied me.’ I said, ‘O Commander! Which verse is it?’ He said, ‘His saying,

‘And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in him before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Jesus) shall be a witness upon them. (4:159)’

By Allah! I command a Jew and a Christian to be beheaded, then I look at them with my own eyes, but I do not see them moving their lips when they die.’ I said, ‘May Allah reform the Commander! It is not as you have interpreted it.’ He said, ‘How is it?’

I said, ‘Verily, Jesus will descend to the world before the Resurrection Day, then the people of the Jewish nation or Christian nation will not remain [on the earth] unless they believe in him before his death and he will pray behind al-Mahdi.’ He said, ‘Woe unto you! Where did you bring it from?’ I said, ‘Muhammad ibn ‘Ali ibn al-Husayn ibn ‘Ali ibn Abu Talib (‘a) narrated it to me.’ He said, ‘By Allah! You brought it from a pure spring.’”

Tafsir Al-Qummi, 1, 158

The Apostle of Allah said, “How can a community perish when I am at the beginning of it, Jesus the son of Mary will be at the end of it and al-Mahdi will be in the middle of it. Dala’il al-Imamah, 234

The Apostle of Allah (S) said, “Good news for you. [He repeated it three times.] … How can the community of which I am the first perish? There are twelve persons after me who are felicitous and possess understanding and Christ Jesus the son of Mary is at the end of them. But between them, the children of confusion will perish. They are not from me and I am not from them.” Khisal, 2, 476

Abu al-Qasim al-Ta’i said, “I asked ‘Ali ibn Musa Al-Ridha’ about he who will fight from us. He said, “He who will fight with the companion of Jesus the son of Mary." Sahifah Al-Ridha’, 89

It is reported that Abu ‘Abd Allah (‘a) said, “Jesus the son of Mary is the Spirit of Allah and His Word. He was thirty-three years old in the world. Then Allah raised him to heaven. He will descend to the earth and it is he who will kill the Antichrist (Dajjal.)” Tafsir Al-Qummi, 2, 271

Hudhayfah reported that the Prophet (S) said, “Al-Mahdi will turn his face to Jesus when he descends as if water were dropping from his hair, and will say to him, ‘Go ahead and say the prayer.’ Jesus will say, ‘The prayer has been set up only for you.’ So, Jesus will pray behind a man who is among my sons.” Sirat al-Mustaqim, 2, 257

It is reported that the Prophet (S) said, “Among my progeny is the Mahdi. When he emerges, Jesus the son of Mary will descend to help him, then Jesus will send him ahead and pray behind him.” Bihar, 14, 349

Khaythama reported that Abu Ja‘far said, “…O Khaythama! There will come a time for the people when they will not know who is Allah and His unity until Dajjal appears and Jesus the son of Mary, may peace and blessings be with both of them, descends from the sky, and Allah will kill Dajjal by his hands and a man that is from our House will pray with the people. Do you not know that Jesus will pray behind us, although he is a prophet? Beware that we are better than him.” Bihar, 24, 328, 46

 

[Trailblazer]

All theists believe according to their own preferences. Only one or none could be correct.

More than one can be correct, but not about everything.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This question is for non-believers of the Christian faith. All Christians believe that Christ will return. When you hear them say this what do you think it really means?

I understand that Christians don’t really believe Christ will return. To them it’s more about the pipe - dream, than Him actually returning. It’s just an avoidance mindset for being unable to fix the world’s problems by using the excuse’ Christ will return and fix everything’. But if Christ really returned they would claim He was a false prophet.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So these commonalities is that Divine figures will return. Now that we've established other religions believe this as well I'll go back to my original question. when you hear people talk of divine figures returning what do you think it really means?

Many religions are waiting for a Divine Figure or Enlightened One to appear but if you look at their prophecies it is very symbolical but it all points to a supremely spiritual Person not a worldly wealthy or powerful person.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Shahr ibn Hawshab said, “Al-Hajjaj said to me, ‘There is a verse in the Book of Allah that has wearied me.’ I said, ‘O Commander! Which verse is it?’ He said, ‘His saying,

‘And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in him before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Jesus) shall be a witness upon them. (4:159)’

By Allah! I command a Jew and a Christian to be beheaded, then I look at them with my own eyes, but I do not see them moving their lips when they die.’ I said, ‘May Allah reform the Commander! It is not as you have interpreted it.’ He said, ‘How is it?’

I said, ‘Verily, Jesus will descend to the world before the Resurrection Day, then the people of the Jewish nation or Christian nation will not remain [on the earth] unless they believe in him before his death and he will pray behind al-Mahdi.’ He said, ‘Woe unto you! Where did you bring it from?’ I said, ‘Muhammad ibn ‘Ali ibn al-Husayn ibn ‘Ali ibn Abu Talib (‘a) narrated it to me.’ He said, ‘By Allah! You brought it from a pure spring.’”

Tafsir Al-Qummi, 1, 158

The Apostle of Allah said, “How can a community perish when I am at the beginning of it, Jesus the son of Mary will be at the end of it and al-Mahdi will be in the middle of it. Dala’il al-Imamah, 234

The Apostle of Allah (S) said, “Good news for you. [He repeated it three times.] … How can the community of which I am the first perish? There are twelve persons after me who are felicitous and possess understanding and Christ Jesus the son of Mary is at the end of them. But between them, the children of confusion will perish. They are not from me and I am not from them.” Khisal, 2, 476

Abu al-Qasim al-Ta’i said, “I asked ‘Ali ibn Musa Al-Ridha’ about he who will fight from us. He said, “He who will fight with the companion of Jesus the son of Mary." Sahifah Al-Ridha’, 89

It is reported that Abu ‘Abd Allah (‘a) said, “Jesus the son of Mary is the Spirit of Allah and His Word. He was thirty-three years old in the world. Then Allah raised him to heaven. He will descend to the earth and it is he who will kill the Antichrist (Dajjal.)” Tafsir Al-Qummi, 2, 271

Hudhayfah reported that the Prophet (S) said, “Al-Mahdi will turn his face to Jesus when he descends as if water were dropping from his hair, and will say to him, ‘Go ahead and say the prayer.’ Jesus will say, ‘The prayer has been set up only for you.’ So, Jesus will pray behind a man who is among my sons.” Sirat al-Mustaqim, 2, 257

It is reported that the Prophet (S) said, “Among my progeny is the Mahdi. When he emerges, Jesus the son of Mary will descend to help him, then Jesus will send him ahead and pray behind him.” Bihar, 14, 349

Khaythama reported that Abu Ja‘far said, “…O Khaythama! There will come a time for the people when they will not know who is Allah and His unity until Dajjal appears and Jesus the son of Mary, may peace and blessings be with both of them, descends from the sky, and Allah will kill Dajjal by his hands and a man that is from our House will pray with the people. Do you not know that Jesus will pray behind us, although he is a prophet? Beware that we are better than him.” Bihar, 24, 328, 46

There’s all these prophecies but each time without fail, history is our witness, the very followers awaiting Him, reject and kill Him. The Jews awaited Christ but when He appeared killed Him. The Christians too rejected Muhammad despite He was promised in their Book and the Muslims executed the Bab and imprisoned Baha’u’llah for 40 years. You see the pattern here? All of the followers believe they will automatically accept the Promised One but history tells us otherwise.

Do people think they will be left alone after saying ‘We believe’ without being put to the test? (29:2)

The Promised One has already appeared but the test is very severe for those with entrenched beliefs.

 

[RabbiO]

There’s all these prophecies but each time without fail, history is our witness, the very followers awaiting Him, reject and kill Him. The Jews awaited Christ but when He appeared killed Him.

During Jesus’ time the largest number of Jews in one place lived in the Land of Israel. However, the majority of Jews lived in the diaspora. So how did the Jews reject and kill Jesus? Were there voting booths spread across the world? Did Gallup or Pew or Nielsen send out folks to take a poll? Did they all head to Israel with torches and pitchforks, like the villagers in a monster movie?

Now if you want to argue that some Jews were complicit in the death of Jesus that is a different question and a different discussion, but your current contention. at best, declares Jews to be spiritually blind. spiritually ignorant and either spiritually venal or spiritually stupid.

I reject that position as, at best, misinformed and at worst, a lie.

 

[Link]

There’s all these prophecies but each time without fail, history is our witness, the very followers awaiting Him, reject and kill Him. The Jews awaited Christ but when He appeared killed Him. The Christians too rejected Muhammad despite He was promised in their Book and the Muslims executed the Bab and imprisoned Baha’u’llah for 40 years. You see the pattern here? All of the followers believe they will automatically accept the Promised One but history tells us otherwise.

Do people think they will be left alone after saying ‘We believe’ without being put to the test? (29:2)

The Promised One has already appeared but the test is very severe for those with entrenched beliefs.

And Bahais reject the Maitreya and the book of THOTH. So the saga continues.

 

[firedragon]

This question is for non-believers of the Christian faith. All Christians believe that Christ will return. When you hear them say this what do you think it really means?

I am Muslim and hope you mind the response. I used to believe the return of Jesus and the whole eschatology of Islam. Later I started to realize that this return of Christ belief is most probably inherited from the Christian tradition and has no absolute basis in Islam. So now I reject this notion.

 

[firedragon]

During Jesus’ time the largest number of Jews in one place lived in the Land of Israel. However, the majority of Jews lived in the diaspora. So how did the Jews reject and kill Jesus? Were there voting booths spread across the world? Did Gallup or Pew or Nielsen send out folks to take a poll? Did they all head to Israel with torches and pitchforks, like the villagers in a monster movie?

Now if you want to argue that some Jews were complicit in the death of Jesus that is a different question and a different discussion, but your current contention. at best, declares Jews to be spiritually blind. spiritually ignorant and either spiritually venal or spiritually stupid.

I reject that position as, at best, misinformed and at worst, a lie.

That was a profound statement.

Nevertheless, do you think the sadducees would have been a part of getting rid of all the messiah figures at that time?

(Due to your knowledge you might think it's a dumb question so don't bash me. And personally, I believe no Jew had any hand in killing of any of the messiah claimants of the time unless maybe there was an informant or two paid by the Romans. But it was all Rome.)

 

[Link]

I am Muslim and hope you mind the response. I used to believe the return of Jesus and the whole eschatology of Islam. Later I started to realize that this return of Christ belief is most probably inherited from the Christian tradition and has no absolute basis in Islam. So now I reject this notion.

Rather unfortunate. To me both Quran and hadiths are clear about this.

 

[Jimmy]

For me the return of Christ gives me great joy and lets me know everything’s going to be OK.

 

[loverofhumanity]

During Jesus’ time the largest number of Jews in one place lived in the Land of Israel. However, the majority of Jews lived in the diaspora. So how did the Jews reject and kill Jesus? Were there voting booths spread across the world? Did Gallup or Pew or Nielsen send out folks to take a poll? Did they all head to Israel with torches and pitchforks, like the villagers in a monster movie?

Now if you want to argue that some Jews were complicit in the death of Jesus that is a different question and a different discussion, but your current contention. at best, declares Jews to be spiritually blind. spiritually ignorant and either spiritually venal or spiritually stupid.

I reject that position as, at best, misinformed and at worst, a lie.

My point is only that there is a pattern of rejection of a new Messenger by the followers of the former religion.

 

[Link]

My point is only that there is a pattern of rejection of a new Messenger by the followers of the former religion.

Was this the case for Jews? First, when awaiting Moses (a) they almost all accepted though starting doubting after they were saved. Yemen was Jewish, accepted Mohammad (s). Later on Iraqi Jews and other places accepted. Most of Jews accepted Islam.

Did you know Madina Al-Munuwara was primarily Jews? They are the ones who converted then invited Mohammad (s) over or Mecca would have been destroyed if they did not.

Also, it can be said Judaism in the area many accepted Isa (a) just didn't accept trinity like Christians.

Christians many did, many did not.

Messengers can be rejected and often are. So your Prophet not having many followers does not disprove him.

But it's not always the pattern. To make this a constant pattern, means, God should just avoid sending Messengers. It often is the case, but not always.

Regarding the Mahdi (a) - it's open ended. It can be good results, bad results, very bad results, or very good results where very few reject him. We don't know. The Quran warns so warnings are avoided. They are not inevitable.

Of course, a large amount of Bani-Israel per Quran became sorcery followers (I believe freemasons and sister and associate groups are these) attributing a book (I believe to be "the key of Solomon") to Sulaiman (a) that Satan created.

It can be said majority of Jews believed in Islam while majority of Bani-Israel became freemasons or whatever they called themselves back then.

 

[Link]

For me the return of Christ gives me great joy and lets me know everything’s going to be OK.

The Quran doesn't show this. It can be okay, it can be a catastrophe for most of mankind and most cities destroyed. It can be on good terms where most accept him. The results are unknown.

 

[Balthazzar]

Maybe when truth becomes the way of life for everyone is when this return will happen.

Truth:

1
a(1)
: the body of real things, events, and facts : ACTUALITY
(2)
: the state of being the case : FACT
(3)
often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality
b
: a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true
truths of thermodynamics

c
: the body of true statements and propositions

2
a
: the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality
b
chiefly British : TRUE sense 2
c
: fidelity to an original or to a standard

3
a
: sincerity in action, character, and utterance
b
archaic : FIDELITY, CONSTANCY

 

[Jimmy]

When Christ returns will he bring all the dead with him? In my opinion, I think he will.

 

[CG Didymus]

All theists believe according to their own preferences. Only one or none could be correct.

That's for sure. Christians, Muslims and Baha'is all build their religions on the foundation set by Judaism. But like remodeling a house, how much of the original do we leave? If the structure is shaky... best tear it down. But what if the foundation is weak? But to rip it out and pour a new foundation.

In some ways, everything is shaky in all these Abrahamic religions. The flaw with some beliefs of some Christians... is that they claim that the Bible is literally true. Then they are committed to support a young Earth, a six-day creation and a disbelief in evolution. They also have to believe there was a world-wide flood just a few thousand years ago.

That's the foundation they build on. Then they add on the virgin birth, casting out demons, and Jesus' resurrection and ascension. By the time they are done, they have come to the conclusion that the one true God must actually be a three-in-one God consisting of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Then Christianity really builds on the belief of God's enemy, Satan. Then there is hell. I could easily believe that some of these things came from some of the other religions like the Greek and Roman religions.

For those Christians this is a beautiful, rock-solid temple of God. But Islam and the Baha'i Faith treat it more like a rickety building that needs some things torn down. The main one being this idea of God being a Trinity.

What I've gathered is that Islam does believe in Satan and hell and that Jesus is coming back, but then there is the Baha'is. They get rid of Satan and hell, the Trinity, the resurrection and ascension and that Jesus, himself is coming back.

All interesting religions. All could be true or all could be wrong. Or... parts of them might be sort of true. And other things just made-up myth. But I'm sure each think that their religions are a solid structure based on the foundation of Judaism and the Bible and with some things removed and other things added on to make it even better.

Then... some people looked at the whole thing and asked, "Right here, your foundation, the thing holding up your whole religion... It says that in the beginning God created the heavens and Earth. How do you know that's true?"

 

[CG Didymus]

I understand that Christians don’t really believe Christ will return. To them it’s more about the pipe - dream, than Him actually returning. It’s just an avoidance mindset for being unable to fix the world’s problems by using the excuse’ Christ will return and fix everything’. But if Christ really returned they would claim He was a false prophet.

But you as a Baha'i do believe "Christ" has returned... just not Jesus. And you do believe your prophet has brought the teachings that will "fix" the world's problems.

Trouble is, like you say, some people believe he is a false prophet. And most people don't know anything, or very little, about him. But even when people hear about him and what he taught, most don't believe in him enough to join his religion.

Is there solid evidence that he's a prophet of God? Are his teachings able to accomplish what is claimed... That they will bring peace and unity to the world?

Lots of us here on the forum have heard you and other Baha'is give your reasons why you believe, but it hasn't convinced very many, and maybe it's been only one?

 

[Trailblazer]

I understand that Christians don’t really believe Christ will return. To them it’s more about the pipe - dream, than Him actually returning. It’s just an avoidance mindset for being unable to fix the world’s problems by using the excuse’ Christ will return and fix everything’. But if Christ really returned they would claim He was a false prophet.

I do not see it that way. I think Christians really believe that Christ will return.
However, from the 2010 survey, it appears like some Christians don't believe that or they have given up waiting.

We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. A 2010 survey showed that about 40% of Americans believe that Jesus is likely to return by 2050. This varies from 58% of white evangelical Christians, through 32% of Catholics to 27% of white mainline Protestants.

Second Coming - Wikipedia

Yes, Christians believe that Christ will return and fix everything, but it has to be Jesus, not another man.
But if the same Jesus returned, how would they know it was really Jesus? Anyone can claim to be Jesus.

The irony is that Jesus never promised to return yo earth, not even once in the New Testament. Rather, Jesus sais that His work was finished here and He was 'no more' in this world.
(John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30)

 

[Ajax]

The irony is that Jesus never promised to return yo earth, not even once in the New Testament.

Your statement above is completely wrong; don't know where you got this idea from...
I showed to you the other day that Jesus was clearly the Son if Man and explicitly said so in Mark's gospel... Also the “Son of Man” in the Gospels was inserted for Jesus because of the “one like a son of man” (a human being) in Daniel 7:13–14, who comes on the clouds of heaven to God himself and receives universal, everlasting authority over the earth.

1 Thess. 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God...."
2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away."
Matthew 10:23 "When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes”
Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done."
Matthew 24:27 "For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. "
Matthew 24:42 "Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming."
Matthew 26:64 "Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Even in John's gospel (John 14:3) “And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”
And many more.....
100 Bible Verses about The Second Coming Of Jesus