The suffering servant of isaiah 53

[Ben Masada]

+++Ben: You don't even know how to read your own Bible. I'll teach you. But first here is how you understand: Jesus saw the crowds, and went on the mountainside to make himself heard better, and then he started delivering the Sermon of the Mount in the ears of the disciples. If this makes sense to you, you are the only one on earth to see sense in nonsense. What happened when he finished speaking? If you read Matthew 7:28, you will see (or perhaps not because of your faith) that the crowds were spellbound at his teaching. I wonder why Jesus did not say to the crowds not to get spellbound because he had not meant a word to them but all to the disciples only. No, I don't think you are that blind. You must have joked to say that Jesus spoke in the ears of the disciples only.

Oh ye of little faith. You say the CROWDS were spellbound right? What does the word used for crowds mean in the greek

1ochlos (Noun) (vines NT dict.)

"a confused throng," is usually translated "multitude." The RV translates it "crowd" (AV, "press" in some) See COMPANY, MULTITUDE, NUMBER, PEOPLE.

So you remember where i quoted Jesus only spoke in parables to the multitudes right? Good. Now while His disciples were there with all the crowd Jesus continues to speak in parables to everyone. But He is saying all the time "you". Lets look at it--

"...and when He was set, His DISCIPLES came unto Him" (Matt. 5:1)
"And He opened His mouth, and taught THEM [His disciples]" (Ver. 2).
"Blessed are YE [all you disciples]..." (Ver. 11).
"...for great is YOUR [disciples'] reward..." (Ver. 12).
YE [disciples] are the salt of the earth..." (Ver. 13).
"YE [disciples] are the light of the world..." (Ver. 14).
"Let YOUR [disciples'] light so shine..." (Ver. 16).
"For verily I say unto YOU [disciples]..." (Ver. 18).
"For I say unto YOU [disciples]..." (Ver. 20).
"YE [disciples] have heard that it was said..." (Ver. 21).
"But I say unto YOU [disciples]... whosoever is angry..." (Ver. 22).
"But I say unto YOU [disciples]... shall say to his brother, Raca..." (Ver. 22).
"But I say unto YOU [disciples]... whosoever shall say , 'You fool' shall be in danger of hell [Gehenna] fire" (Ver. 22).
"Therefore if YOU [disciples] bring your gift..." (Ver. 23).
"Agree with YOUR [disciples] adversary quickly..." (Ver. 25).
"Veryily I say unto YOU [disciples], YOU [disciples] shall by no means come out thence, till YOU [disciples] have paid the uttermost farthing" (Ver. 26).
"But I say unto YOU [disciples], that whosoever looks on a woman to lust..." (Ver. 28).
"And if YOUR right eye offend YOU [disciples], pluck it out, and cast it from YOU: for it is profitable for YOU [disciples] that one of YOUR members should perish, and not that YOUR whole body [the bodies of Christ's disciples, not the wicked unbelievers in the day of Judgment] should be cast into hell [Gehenna fire]" (Ver. 29).
"And if YOUR right hand offend YOU, cut it off, and cast it from YOU: for it is profitable for YOU [disciples of Mine] that one of YOUR members should perish, and not that YOUR whole body should be cast into hell [Gehenna fire]" (Verse 30).

Now everyone heard this, but is it directed towards them all? Yes and no. For in this age it is directed to His Elect (and His Elect are compised of gentiles and some jews)but in the next age it is directed to everyone else who has ever lived.

This crowd was confused after Jesus finished. They didnt understand parables and neither did His disciples at the time and neither do you and most of the world today. Yes, Jesus was talking to everyone then like He is today and saying "YOU"(yes you Ben), but is everyone (YOU) understanding and knowing what He is talking about? NO!

Its just like Barak Obama saying "yes WE can do it" to the crowds, but is everyone in "WE" crowd gonna do anything? Please dont be niave.

11 Jesus F297 answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. ....13 "Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing R481 they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 "In F298 their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, `YOU R482F299 WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT F300 WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU F301 WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE; 15 FOR R483 THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'

But what does He do for His disciples?---
Mt 13:36 - Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
And Jesus tells them THE MEANING, the disciples not the multitudes. Therefore I am for sure that you and most of the people in the Judaism religion have no idea what any of the parables mean. Actually you proved this when you tried to interpret this parable in another thread

Mt 13:33 - Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Oh how far off base you were:run::banghead3

Sorry pal, you are going to return your merchandize because I ain't bying it.

Ben

 

[AK4]

Sorry pal, you are going to return your merchandize because I ain't bying it.

Ben

Probably the same thing those Jews of that day said when Jesus told them

John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Yet this is just another parable that you Jews and judaism dont get.

"Sorry Jesus, you are going to return your merchandize because I ain't bying it."--Ben

 

[AK4]

+++Ben: As I can see, you are not at all familiar with the Jesus you worship. For Jesus to say that the Gentiles are the light of the world, you are way out of touch
with reality. Jesus had rather an aversion to Gentiles. He used to forbid his disciples
to take the gospel of the Kingdom of God to Gentiles. Read Matthew 10:6 again.

I didnt say that Jesus said that the gentiles are the light of the world, i said those who He chooses in this age, gentiles and some jews, will be the light.

At that time the Gospel was only to be preached to the Jews to fulfill prophecy

Isa 53:3 - He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Ho 4:6 - My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Isa 37:23 - Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.

+++Ben: You don't have it. You say that because you think I will not feedback.

Whats the point. If i told you that the earth was round you probably still wouldnt believe that

 

[Ben Masada]

those who He chooses in this age, gentiles and some jews, will be the light.

There is no more choosing. According to Isaiah 42:6, Israel has been chosen as light for the Gentiles, and Jesus has confirmed in Matthew 5:14.
If you want to join the light, you are welcome. Otherwise, stop this Pauline Replacement Theology.

At that time the Gospel was only to be preached to the Jews to fulfill prophecy.

When did it change? And who did the change, Paul? But of course! Who else?

Isa 53:3

- He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

The despised and rejected is Israel, Messiah ben Joseph. The men are those of Judah, Messiah ben David. The man of sorrows is Israel. Those who hid their faces
are the men of Judah. From him is Israel. Then, he (Israel) was despised and we the Judahites esteemed him not.

Ho 4:6

- My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

I understand this passage of Hosea to be about those Jews who have rejected the True God for the gods of the Gentiles. "My people" are the Jews who have left Judaism for Christianity. Just like the Jews-for-Baal of the time of Elijah. Read I Kings 18:21.

Isa 37:23

- Whom hast thou reproached and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice, and lifted up thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.

I worship the One and only true God whose equal there is none, according to Isaiah 46:5. The Holy One of Israel is absolutely One and incorporeal.
That's the Redeemer of Jacob, Who shows His glory only through Israel. Read Isaiah 44:24.

Ben :shout

 

[Ben Masada]

Probably the same thing those Jews of that day said when Jesus told them

John 6:53 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

Yet this is just another parable that you Jews and judaism dont get.

"Sorry Jesus, you are going to return your merchandize because I ain't bying it."--Ben

You should become a Roman Catholic where the bread becomes the real flesh of Jesus during the Mass. And the wine becomes the real blood of Jesus.

Ben

 

[Charity]

You should become a Roman Catholic where the bread becomes the real flesh of Jesus during the Mass. And the wine becomes the real blood of Jesus.

Ben

:slap: Benny you shouldn't pick on the Catholics, you know they are God's chosen After all God only parted the water for the Israelites

 

[AK4]

You should become a Roman Catholic where the bread becomes the real flesh of Jesus during the Mass. And the wine becomes the real blood of Jesus.

Ben

Ha. LOL. Even Roman catholics dont get the parable, wait a minute i will change that, MOST of christainity dont get that parable either. Replacing bread and wine for Jesus is just another "idol of their heart". They feel that they are more holier than thou because they are physically showing their loyalty to God much like you Jews who want to start your physical sacrifices but spiritually yall show nothing.

Eze 14:4 - Therefore speak to them, and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God: "Everyone of the house of Israel who sets up his idols in his heart, and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, and then comes to the prophet, I the Lord will answer him who comes, according to the multitude of his idols,
Eze 14:7 - For anyone of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who separates himself from Me and sets up his idols in his heart and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, then comes to a prophet to inquire of him concerning Me, I the Lord will answer him by Myself.

What they do and what you jews want to do is not worshipping in spirit and truth. Physical rituals including circumcision and sacrificing animals IS NOT worshipping God in spirit and truth.
These rituals goes against Gods circumcision of the heart. You guys and them set these idols in your heart and think you are worshipping in spirit and truth and think your more holy than thou. Gimme a break.


Isa 22:16 -What hast thou here? and whom hast thou here, that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock?
Mt 23:27 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

You guys and traditional christainity are so short sighted and spiritually dead! You show outwardly your loyalty but inwardly your dead and full of wickedness--
Ps 5:9 - For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.
Mt 23:28 - Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Ro 2:28 - For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Now speaking of parables most of humanity cant see the whole bible is a parable. "You say a parable of what?" Ahh i can tell you but you still wont see it. :cover:

 

[Charity]

AK4 then are you saying that no Christian believer should practice communion? Even though Jesus said "do this in remembrance of me." After all it is only symbolic that we do this. I am just trying to understand your position on this practice.

 

[Ben Masada]

:slap: Benny you shouldn't pick on the Catholics, you know they are God's chosen After all God only parted the water for the Israelites

No honey, I am picking on AK4 with his (or her?) obscure ideas. All this time we have
been at each other's, I still don't know what he (or she) is in terms of a religious person.

Ben:drool:

 

[AK4]

AK4 then are you saying that no Christian believer should practice communion? Even though Jesus said "do this in remembrance of me." After all it is only symbolic that we do this. I am just trying to understand your position on this practice.

No. You can do this but on a spiritual level daily.

Spiritually you eat the bread. What is the bread/mana?

Joh 6:48 - I am the bread of life.
Joh 6:51 - I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." De 8:3 - He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word (spiritual match---Re 19:13 - He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God)that comes from the mouth of the Lord.

Mt 4:4 - Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
So spiritually you eat/live the Word of God (Jesus/Scripture)

Now the wine. As Jesus says this is His blood.

Ps 104:15 - wine that gladdens the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread that sustains his heart. (Does this remind you of the verse in Revelations about not hurting the oil and wine)
Ro 5:9 - Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!
His blood is the new covenant and acceptance of His death/sacrifice as truly what it was.


Spiritually i take the communion daily
Spiritually i wash other feet
Spiritually i celebrate the Holy Days
spiritually i (try to) obey the ten commandments daily
spiritually i am baptised into His death
spirtually i die daily

etc, etc

 

[AK4]

No honey, I am picking on AK4 with his (or her?) obscure ideas. All this time we have
been at each other's, I still don't know what he (or she) is in terms of a religious person.

Ben:drool:

LOL Im a guy.

Obscure is sorta right because the Lord didnt want everyone to know in this age what His purpose and plan is. You know "eyes to see, hears to hear and heart to understand otherwise they will turn and i would heal them". But everyone will "come to the knowledge of truth" in their due season.

But anyway i told you what "religious person" i am---the Bride of Christ which really is not a "religous sect" or whatever. How about this i am a "Seeker of the Truth" or how about this "a son of Godism". LOL. I have no affiliation with any denomination, sect or religion. I was a "traditional christain" and then one of those other christain denominations who are knock offs of Judaism--they call em legalists i think (they are just knock offs of judaism but they believe in Jesus (sorta) and they believe like you jews believe that they can keep the OT better than "their fathers" or the jews), but when God gave me the spiritual eyes to see His Word i see that Judaism and traditional christainity was needed for me to be where i am now.

So i think im a person in the religion called "wordainity of Godaism?" or is that "wordaism of Godainity"

 

[Charity]

No honey, I am picking on AK4 with his (or her?) obscure ideas. All this time we have
been at each other's, I still don't know what he (or she) is in terms of a religious person.

Ben:drool:

Sweetie, go back and read my post again, I was agreeing with you. In comparison to what God has done for Israel.... I think both you and AK4 love aggravating each other . It's the highlight of your day.....:drool:

 

[AK4]

Sweetie, go back and read my post again, I was agreeing with you. In comparison to what God has done for Israel.... I think both you and AK4 love aggravating each other . It's the highlight of your day.....:drool:

Oh ben doesnt agravate me. I claim to be using him and he claims that hes trying to trap me.

It just amazes me the strong delusion God has sent and how far alot of people are caught in the delusion. Heck i was there b4 so in no way am i saying im better than anyone, but actually im real humble because i know i could be still decieved also if it wasnt by the grace of God

 

[Ben Masada]

LOL Im a guy.

Obscure is sorta right because the Lord didnt want everyone to know in this age what His purpose and plan is. You know "eyes to see, hears to hear and heart to understand otherwise they will turn and i would heal them". But everyone will "come to the knowledge of truth" in their due season.

But anyway i told you what "religious person" i am---the Bride of Christ which really is not a "religous sect" or whatever. How about this i am a "Seeker of the Truth" or how about this "a son of Godism". LOL. I have no affiliation with any denomination, sect or religion. I was a "traditional christain" and then one of those other christain denominations who are knock offs of Judaism--they call em legalists i think (they are just knock offs of judaism but they believe in Jesus (sorta) and they believe like you jews believe that they can keep the OT better than "their fathers" or the jews), but when God gave me the spiritual eyes to see His Word i see that Judaism and traditional christainity was needed for me to be where i am now.

So i think im a person in the religion called "wordainity of Godaism?" or is that "wordaism of Godainity"

Sorry AK4, but you have to understand that I had enough reasons to wonder if you
were a girl or a guy, especially for the epithet of "Bride of Chirst." And I even thought that if you were a girl, your real name could have been Mary Magdalene, because I do believe that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.

I agree with you that everyone eventually will come to the light of the Truth. But there is more than one way to claim to come to the light of the Truth. What is Truth for you, it's not for me, or for Charity and many others. It means that if every one of us ever came to the light of the Truth, we would be all back to square one trying to make each other come to the light of each one's truth.

Ben

 

[Jeremy Mason]

It means that if every one of us ever come to the light of the Truth, we will be all back to square one trying each other to come to the light of each one's truth.

:no:Talking in circles again. Ben, do you proof read your posts before submitting them?

 

[Charity]

:no:Talking in circles again. Ben, do you proof read your posts before submitting them?

Jeremy my dear, he knows when your around your going to do the proof reading

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Jeremy my dear, he knows when your around your going to do the proof reading

I'm afraid your right. Selective reading is Ben's strong suit.

 

[Charity]

I'm afraid your right. Selective reading is Ben's strong suit.

If he is interested in my cookies then I think he must be a pretty intelligent guy and I can't help but admire his tenacity.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

If he is interested in my cookies then I think he must be a pretty intelligent guy and I can't help but admire his tenacity.

Yes, cookies and intelligence...ok...

As for admiring tenacity, it would help my opinion of Ben if he would stop fabricating false accusations of our Savior and His followers.

 

[Ben Masada]

:no:Talking in circles again. Ben, do you proof read your posts before submitting them?

In what sense, grammatically or Biblically? Besides, Biblically at least, I don't see much of a challenge to go over them in search of flaws.
I rather think you guys should read your Bibles with some logic in mind. Anyway, I am here to fill in the blanks, I mean,
if only your pride didn't get in the way of commonsense.

Ben :clap