The Us vs Them dogma within a religion

[pearl]

That's not biblical.

But it is. Read the Genises account of the Covenant with Abraham.
In order for God to be understood by man he must come to man's level of understanding. The ordinary way to 'cut a deal' acceptance was marked by each walking through the split carcasses. In the covenant God made with Abraham only the 'Angel of the Lord' walked through.
It is God who is bound by the Covenant.

 

[Wildswanderer]

But it is. Read the Genises account of the Covenant with Abraham.
In order for God to be understood by man he must come to man's level of understanding. The ordinary way to 'cut a deal' acceptance was marked by each walking through the split carcasses. In the covenant God made with Abraham only the 'Angel of the Lord' walked through.
It is God who is bound by the Covenant.

We are not under the old covenant. In fact it no longer exists.

 

[pearl]

In fact it no longer exists.

Then you also believe that God does not keep his 'word', and is a breaker of promises.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Then you also believe that God does not keep his 'word', and is a breaker of promises.

No, he kept all his promises. They were fulfilled in Jesus.

 

[pearl]

No, he kept all his promises.

If He kept all His promises, then the Abrahamitic covenant is still in effect for the Jews as it is absolute, irrevocable, and eternal.

 

[wellwisher]

There is no monolith of Christian followers. There are the big segments of those all saying they are Christians, who are adamantly against those of the other big segments. There are those groups of Christians who won't include other Christians among them, over some doctrines that seem really important to them. There are some small churches that even might think they are the only Christians. And for any new controversy with something in question, Christians will divide over it.

This is with one book for God's people, that many of them will claim as their basis of faith. Some still though think they have the only right translation.

This said, the same holds for many groups and movements among humanity. It seems to be a trait characterizing humans, to divide from each other over something or other.

In the 4th century AD, Christianity became the official religion of Rome. This merger altered the original version of Christianity, adding a strong secular element to the once less secular Church. It was no longer the religion of slaves, but a religion also connected to the top of the secular food chain.

As this merger evolved over the centuries, Christianity became more of a hybrid. It was connected to the needs of Jesus, but also connected to a world empire and superpower; shared power. Christianity went from an underdog to an overdog, based on the Roman secular aspects that were integrated into the Church; Vatican. The Holy Roman Empire, became a paradox of opposites; weakness and strength, faith and evidence, poverty and luxury, religion and science, etc.

This hybrid state latest until about the 14th century; 1000 year reign of peace for the hybrid Christianity. This is when the Catholic Church started to divide; Protestant and other movements, with the Roman and the Christian aspects starting to separate, like cellular differentiation during multicellular division; body of the Church went from a hybrid cell, to more like a multicellular body of diverse ratios and blends of Rome and Christianity.

The Atheist movement was heavy on the Roman side of the hybrid, while smaller churches would appear trying to get closer to the pre-4th century Christians ways. This differentiation process is still going on today, forming the body of Christianity. This body now has hands and feet, with each serving a purpose for the whole. Some are down to earth, and some are better in the air. Some are the head and some are the heart. Some are the cerebral; Atheism, and some are the thalamus; spirited, with the thalamus wired to all.

 

[Wildswanderer]

If He kept all His promises, then the Abrahamitic covenant is still in effect for the Jews as it is absolute, irrevocable, and eternal.

I don't see any temple. I don't see any Jews actually keeping the law because it's impossible now. The system no longer exists.
And we don't need it because Jesus fulfilled all of the old covenant requirements.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't see any temple. I don't see any Jews actually keeping the law because it's impossible now. The system no longer exists.
And we don't need it because Jesus fulfilled all of the old covenant requirements.

That makes no sense.
Jesus is the promised Jewish Messiah.

We know that he is coming back, to fulfill his role as Messiah.
i.e. to usher in a global era of peace, and kill the anti-Christ

Almighty God would not completely cancel the law.
A person who says so, has no sure knowledge.
The ten commandments still stands.

 

[metis]

Almighty God would not completely cancel the law.

Especially that He refers to the Law as being "perpetual" and "forever". However, Jewish Law [613 Commandments] are only obligatory for Jews to follow per Torah.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Especially that He refers to the Law as being "perpetual" and "forever". However, Jewish Law [613 Commandments] are only obligatory for Jews to follow per Torah.

Mmm .. I know that in the mass conversion of gentiles to believing in Jesus, compromises were agreed in the Council of Jerusalem, for example.
It was agreed that gentiles didn't have to be circumcised.

It was stated by the Apostles and Elders in the council: "the Holy Spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to abstain from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper." (Acts 15:27–28)
Council of Jerusalem - Wikipedia

 

[Wildswanderer]

That makes no sense.
Jesus is the promised Jewish Messiah.

We know that he is coming back, to fulfill his role as Messiah.
i.e. to usher in a global era of peace, and kill the anti-Christ

Almighty God would not completely cancel the law.
A person who says so, has no sure knowledge.
The ten commandments still stands.

Yes he is the messiah. That's the point. The old covenant was in place for a time and purpose,
but the old laws were set aside when Jesus came and fulfilled them by his life, death and resurrection.
The law of Moses required many animal sacrifices, but because of the sacrificial death of Jesus, the sacrifices are no longer required. Moses wrote that sins could be atoned for through the performance of rituals, but this was a temporary and external atonement; Jesus simply forgave
people as a permanent gift and a cleansed conscience.
Jesus supersedes the laws of Moses.
The commandments of Jesus are actually harder to keep than the ten commandments.
The old way said "do not kill" the new way says "do not even hate. "

The only way said "do not commit adultery" the new way says "do not even lust after someone other than your spouse."

However, there's also more Grace under the New covenant.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The old covenant was in place for a time and purpose,
but the old laws were set aside when Jesus came and fulfilled them by his life, death and resurrection..

No .. in the time of Jesus, the ultimate law was the Roman governance, although they allowed the Jews to have their own Biblical laws.

Jesus supersedes the laws of Moses.
The commandments of Jesus are actually harder to keep than the ten commandments.
The old way said "do not kill" the new way says "do not even hate. "

The laws were set by the Romans, and not by Jesus.
..and what is the punishment for "hate"?

 

[Wildswanderer]

No .. in the time of Jesus, the ultimate law was the Roman governance, although they allowed the Jews to have their own Biblical laws.


The laws were set by the Romans, and not by Jesus.
..and what is the punishment for "hate"?

It's got nothing to do with Roman laws. This is about biblical laws.
The punishment for hate is hell, but fortunately we have a saviour and our sins aren't counted against us.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The punishment for hate is hell, but fortunately we have a saviour and our sins aren't counted against us.

Again, that makes no sense.

NOBODY is exempt from being responsible for their own sins.
If you go and murder people, you would expect to be punished for it, would you not?

..and you think that Almighty God just "let's you off", because you believe?
That's nonsensical.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Again, that makes no sense.

NOBODY is exempt from being responsible for their own sins.
If you go and murder people, you would expect to be punished for it, would you not?

..and you think that Almighty God just "let's you off", because you believe?
That's nonsensical.

What's amazing is how many people in here that seem to have a biblical knowledge don't understand the gospel at all.
If God kept a record of wrongs who could stand?
If he didn't forgive our transgressions no one would be in heaven.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If he didn't forgive our transgressions no one would be in heaven.

Agreed upon.
We are all sinners, and God forgives whomsoever He wills, and punishes whomsoever He wills.

What I am saying, is that there is no automatic "go straight to heaven because you believe".

Our deeds also matter.
..even being in hell for just a few years is not a good thought, but I do agree that a believer will go to heaven EVENTUALLY, if they are sincere in their belief.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Agreed upon.
We are all sinners, and God forgives whomsoever He wills, and punishes whomsoever He wills.

What I am saying, is that there is no automatic "go straight to heaven because you believe".

Our deeds also matter.
..even being in hell for just a few years is not a good thought, but I do agree that a believer will go to heaven EVENTUALLY, if they are sincere in their belief.

Purgatory isn't in the Bible.
We are saved solely by grace through faith.
Not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[pearl]

I don't see any temple. I don't see any Jews actually keeping the law because it's impossible now. The system no longer exists.

Especially that He refers to the Law as being "perpetual" and "forever". However, Jewish Law [613 Commandments] are only obligatory for Jews to follow per Torah.

The Covenant God made with Abraham predates by centuries the Law of Moses and the 613 commandments. They simply did not exist as of yet. There are not two paths to salvation, which is through Christ alone, even if those saved do not acknowledge him as their savior. That is the position of the Catholic Church. It is the reason that Rahner coined the phrase 'anonymous' Christian, making the case there is no salvation outside of Christ, there is no outside of Christ.

 

[Sand Dancer]

What's amazing is how many people in here that seem to have a biblical knowledge don't understand the gospel at all.
If God kept a record of wrongs who could stand?
If he didn't forgive our transgressions no one would be in heaven.

Maybe fewer people will be in the Lamb's Book of Life than they think.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

There has never been a Christians\non-Christians narrative.

I had just got done reading the didache, and I'm curious on your views about chapter 9.