Thy Kingdom Come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

[TransmutingSoul]

What would you call a form of government that rules by what it believes to be God's laws and has leaders appointed or elected in the way it was prescribed in the Scriptures of that religion? A religioacracy?

Time will tell. Also consider, it will be the majority of the inhabitants of the earth wanting such a system, who will in doing so, will give a greater representation of voices to the minority.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

I've asked the Baha'is so many times... Are their religious laws practical? What's going to happen when they try and enforce their sexual morals on everybody? What's going to happen when they outlaw booze and drugs?

What are Baha'is going to do with people that like to drink and take drugs and that have all kinds of sex with all kinds of people? Put them in jail? Pray for them? And sometimes, it's the religious people and their leaders that are doing those things.

Probably try fine them into poverty in my view, although the rules for different drugs may differ in the severity of punishment ranging from tobacco (no punishment) to alcohol (loss of administrative rights) to opium (to be prevented by quote, "any means whatsoever" including violence and force, constraint and oppression.

 

[Trailblazer]

Time will tell.

Why bother talking about the future? None of us alive today will ever see what you and CG have been discussing. Moreover, only God knows what a new system of governance will look like.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why bother talking about the future? None of us alive today will ever see what you and CG have been discussing. Moreover, only God knows what a new system of governance will look like.

Only because it is what we work for today. To build a foundation so that future can be.

The blood of all the martyrs, and the sacrafice of self of all the Saint's, have ensured that it will happen.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Only because it is what we work for today. To build a foundation so that future can be.

The blood of all the martyrs, and the sacrafice of self of all the Saint's, have ensured that it will happen.

I am not saying that it will not happen. My point was that we don't know what it will look like, so I don't think it is useful to discuss it now.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In theory or in practice? 'Cause it sure doesn't seem to be happening much in practice.

I’d say the majority of people just live their daily lives without harming others. Apart from some extremists most people of whatever religion want what’s best for humanity and are well wishers of all. The problem is because they are not united then they cannot contain evil when it arises. Together humanity can sort out the current mess we’re in.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I am not saying that it will not happen. My point was that we don't know what it will look like, so I don't think it is useful to discuss it now.

I would offer, if one can not envision a greater future, one will still live in the past, and that is exactly what is happening, people's replies about the Baha'i Faith are not looking at the potential, but dragging all their ideas about it, back into the past mistakes.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yeah, that's going to be a religion imposing their "Godly" laws on everyone else... For their own good, of course.

Is that true? How are they being imposed on? Baha’u’llah only wants people to obey Him out of ‘love’. So I don’t see any force. He says “Obey My commandments for the love of My Beauty” No imposing at all.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The verse says:
Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
The verse says that we are to pray for God's will to be done on earth and for God's will to be done in heaven.
The verse does not say that it is God's will for earth to be like heaven.
Heaven is a spiritual world. Earth conditions can never be like heaven since earth is a physical world.
No, earth will never be free from sickness and death because physical bodies are prone to sickness and they all die eventually.
The humble meek will inherit the Earth means that the people who are living on earth at the time the New Earth is built will inherit the earth, as will their progeny. Dead people are not going to come back to life and inherit the earth.

Yes, God's will (His purpose) to be done on Earth as it is in Heaven
In Heaven there is No war, No crime, No violence, No sickness and No death in Heaven
No one goes to Heaven to die in Heaven. No tombs in Heaven, No cemeteries in Heaven
Since God's Kingdom (Daniel 2:44) is Not yet here is why we ask for God's kingdom to come ( thy kingdom come....... )
Thus, God's will be the same for Earth as it is in Heaven
Yes, Heaven is a spirit realm ( aka angels for example ) and Earth is a physical realm ( aka Adam & Eve, etc. )
Adam & Eve were Not prone to sickness and death until 'after' they broke the Law of Genesis 2:17
Originally Earth started out with humans being free from sickness and death with eternal life on Earth in view
Reproduction (progeny) will cease according to Genesis 1:28
People were only to reproduce until Earth was FULL, until Earth was populated, Not over full or over-populated
Acts 24:15 informs us that ' there will be ' a resurrection. ' There will be....' as in future
ALL the people Jesus resurrected were brought back to happy-and-healthy physical life on Earth
Jesus was demonstrating a small sample preview coming attraction of what he will be doing on a grand global scale
Enemy death will be No more on Earth - Isaiah 25:8; 1st Corinthians 15:24-26

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I envisage a global system, backed by national and local levels of authority that is ruled by humanity, via democratic elections. I see that system will draw on the legislative capacity of the Spirit in matter's related to Law and moral conduct.
Regards Tony

You're Not alone in envisioning a global system
Remember: a house divided can Not stand. Democratic elections shows Not unity but people almost equally divided
Humans choose moral conduct. Thus, it is Not a human (Matthew 25:31-34) but a King (President) and that Ruling King proves to be Christ Jesus who will choose who are the figurative humble sheep who will be the meek who will inherit the earthly realm of God's Kingdom
What Adam & Eve lost for us will be restored: Everlasting life on Earth as originally started in Eden

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Time will tell. Also consider, it will be the majority of the inhabitants of the earth wanting such a system, who will in doing so, will give a greater representation of voices to the minority.
Regards Tony

What about 'quality' instead of 'quantity' ______________
Jesus said MANY will prove to be false - Matt. 7:21-23
The 'sword-like executional words' from Jesus' voice will give the greater representation to both the majority and the minority

- Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Only because it is what we work for today. To build a foundation so that future can be.
The blood of all the martyrs, and the sacrafice of self of all the Saint's, have ensured that it will happen.
Regards Tony

Yes, the spilled blood of all the martyrs/saints/holy ones - Daniel 7:18 - do insure us of a happy future - Rev. 2:10
They will govern with Christ over Earth - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10

 

[CG Didymus]

That's not the future CG.

Regards Tony

But we've had examples of people being governed by religious rules and by priests, and prophets and people that were believed to be Gods. Now, I don't know what you thing, but I don't think any of those examples worked.

 

[CG Didymus]

Again CG, that is a very narrow and restricted vision of past practices trying to paint a dark picture of a light filled and glorious future. I do not need to supply any details to such statements, just point out the lack of the willingness to contemplate the possibilities of the good we have inherent in each of us.

Regards Tony

Well, you might trust your UHJ leaders, but why should I? Aren't they just men? If they aren't perfect, then how are they going to run a religious government perfectly? What are the checks and balances? It's not the Baha'is community is it? They are supposed to obey whatever decisions that these men make, right?

 

[CG Didymus]

Many scholars have graced the literature with these answers CG. If intersection, undertake a search. Like I did in the past a few times.

Islam had many Scholars coming from many places to learn and prosper from the progress in knowledge brought about by the Revelation of Muhammad, which they took back to progress other Nations. Basically assisting many out of the darkness of the times.

Regards Tony

Yeah, when was the "midday" for Christianity? Since Muhammad came in 621AD or so, then it had to be before that, right?

And about Islam... The Baha'i Faith has the Umayyads as the beast from the Book of Revelation. So, when was this "midday" for Islam? And who were its religious leaders?

"The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them":[Cf. Rev. 11:7] this beast means the Umayyads who attacked them from the pit of error, and who rose against the religion of Muhammad and against the reality of `Alí--in other words, the love of God.​

​

"It is said, "The beast made war against these two witnesses"[Cf. Rev. 11:7.]--that is to say, a spiritual war, meaning that the beast would act in entire opposition to the teachings, customs and institutions of these two witnesses, to such an extent that the virtues and perfections which were diffused by the power of those two witnesses among the peoples and tribes would be entirely dispelled, and the animal nature and carnal desires would conquer. Therefore, this beast making war against them would gain the victory--meaning that the darkness of error coming from this beast was to have ascendency over the horizons of the world, and kill those two witnesses--in other words, that it would destroy the spiritual life which they spread abroad in the midst of the nation, and entirely remove the divine laws and teachings, treading under foot the Religion of God. Nothing would thereafter remain but a lifeless body without spirit.​

​

('Abdu'l-Bahá, Some Answered Questions, p. 51)​

 

[CG Didymus]

Only because it is what we work for today. To build a foundation so that future can be.

Yes, Baha'is have a plan for the future. What is that plan? How is it going to be put into practice? What problems might arise? Yes, it worth discussing.

 

[CG Didymus]

Is that true? How are they being imposed on? Baha’u’llah only wants people to obey Him out of ‘love’. So I don’t see any force. He says “Obey My commandments for the love of My Beauty” No imposing at all.

So, under a Baha'i government, laws won't be enforced? We'll be on an honor system? I don't think so. Even the World Tribunal during the lesser peace has the authority to enforce its decisions. And what happens when someone disobeys? All the other nations are supposed to rise up and put a stop to their disobedience.

Baha'u'llah has laws for arson, murderers and thieves. And he recommends those people be punished. Who is going to carry out the his recommended punishment?

 

[danieldemol]

So, under a Baha'i government, laws won't be enforced? We'll be on an honor system? I don't think so. Even the World Tribunal during the lesser peace has the authority to enforce its decisions. And what happens when someone disobeys? All the other nations are supposed to rise up and put a stop to their disobedience.

Baha'u'llah has laws for arson, murderers and thieves. And he recommends those people be punished. Who is going to carry out the his recommended punishment?

Abdul-Baha tells us who will carry out the punishment;

"This House of Justice enacteth the laws and the government enforceth them"

Source: HTTPS://WWW.BAHAI.ORG/LIBRARY/AUTHO...AGES/19950427_001/19950427_001.XHTML?59532BE8

It is my view that we should simply disregard apologetic attempts to insult our intelligence by Baha'i claiming that force will have no place in a hypothetical Baha'i World Order and continue to expose the authentic Baha'i teachings just as you have done - Kudos to you.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, under a Baha'i government, laws won't be enforced? We'll be on an honor system? I don't think so. Even the World Tribunal during the lesser peace has the authority to enforce its decisions. And what happens when someone disobeys? All the other nations are supposed to rise up and put a stop to their disobedience.

Baha'u'llah has laws for arson, murderers and thieves. And he recommends those people be punished. Who is going to carry out the his recommended punishment?

No one will be forced to follow the Baha’i teachings but things like murder, rape and theft will still be crimes no matter you are a Baha’i or not.

 

[danieldemol]

No one will be forced to follow the Baha’i teachings but things like murder, rape and theft will still be crimes no matter you are a Baha’i or not.

Way to dodge the question in my view. Secular justice is typically different to Baha'i punishments for arson, murderers and thieves, if the Baha'i penalties are applied (which they would be in a hypothetical Baha'i world in my view) then elements of the Baha'i religious law would still be forced on non-Baha'i participants.