• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Trump 2024. Why or why not.

Kfox

Well-Known Member
He has been indicted for stealing government documents--not just mishandling classified information, but illegally taking them and hiding them from the government. The stolen documents included some of the nation's top secrets, and there is solid evidence that he not only possessed them illegally, but he also shared them with other people lacking security clearances. By definition, that disclosure of highly classified documentation was putting US national security in grave danger.
Yeah that was a stupid thing to do. Biden and Pence sorta did the same thing, but the difference is Biden and Pence handed the documents over when asked, Trump tried to hide the fact that he had them. As stupid as that was, I don’t think enough harm was done to the country to cause me to prefer Biden over Trump
Where to start? His history of misogyny predates the presidency, but it was clearly exposed on the campaign trail with the Access Hollywood tape. More recently, there was a unanimous jury verdict that found him liable for sexually abusing Jean Carroll (legally rape outside of New York) and defaming her repeatedly in public. The harm comes from the tremendous influence that a head of state has on the behavior of its citizens--normalizing misogyny in a country where women are supposed to have the same legal rights and freedoms as men.
Yeah; I know of people from Arkansas who say Bill Clinton was the same way about women when he was Governor, yet I think he was a great president.
It must be hard for you to spot, but there was the time he called Mexican immigrants criminals and rapists and called for a judge to recuse himself because of his Mexican heritage. He also called for a ban on all Muslims entering the US. Repeatedly calling COVID the "Chinese flu" and "kung flu", referring to Haiti and African countries as "****hole countries", and questioning Obama's country of birth--all of these might be perceived as xenophobic behavior by a reasonable person. Needless to say, this harms the image of the US in other countries and weakens our diplomatic standing with them.
He didn’t claim ALL the people crossing the border were criminals, just some of them; which is true. As far as **** hole countries remark, he said that in private; didn’t know it was gonna be repeated to the press. But let’s face it; if your country has a sub-50% literacy rate and employment rate, if there were ever anything that could be called a **** hole country, that would be it. As far as calling Covid the Chinese flue, that was stupid and divisive. He should have been better than that; unfortunately he was not. But under his governorship, the country was striving economically in spite of his stupid remarks.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Trump tried to hide the fact that he had them. As stupid as that was, I don’t think enough harm was done to the country to cause me to prefer Biden over Trump
I don't think we know what damage might have been done to the country, and we might not know for years if ever. But we do know that your national security was put at risk. People's lives were put at risk.


(and btw, this is also true to a lesser extent with what Pence and Biden did)
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Yeah that was a stupid thing to do. Biden and Pence sorta did the same thing, but the difference is Biden and Pence handed the documents over when asked, Trump tried to hide the fact that he had them. As stupid as that was, I don’t think enough harm was done to the country to cause me to prefer Biden over Trump
Biden and Pence didn't do anything even similar to Trump. The documents found in their storage areas were collections of non-classified materials, and gathered by aids, not the former vice presidents. It was an error by the aids, not deliberate acts that classified materials were included. Both had to collect and pack documents at the end of their terms, and mistakes in reviewing the materials was the issue. As you note the documents were handed over to the archives once discovered.

In Trump's case he deliberately knew of classified materials and himself packed these into his "boxes" for his own use later. He even ordered others to pack these documents, and then move and manage them once the archives and law enforcement learned they were still in his custody.

Questions remain of what he used them for, both while still president and afterwards. There is a lack of record keeping of Trump's activies and meetings as president, and once he was out there's even less accounting of who he was meeting with. All we have is speculation about whether Trump is a simpleton who wanted what he believed was his, or if he retained these documents as a means to personally profit in some way. With Trump's lack of integrity and ethics we can assume the worst.

He is not fit for office. He never was.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Not an American, but I think Trump will win. I don't want him to win, but I think he will.
We can't know for sure. It is disturbing that so many citizens favor Trump despite his criminal and unthical acts.

I will say that the elections last Tuesday bnefitted the democrats vastly more than expected, and this gives me hope that the polling favoring Trump is just unhappy moderates sending a message to Biden to drop out. Some pundits predict that the moderates will vote for Biden over Trump in the voting booth due to the real threat that Trump poses.

The polling data that shows Trump ahead of Biden in the swing states also reveals that Biden wins all of them if Trump gets convicted in some case. And Biden wins by a higher margin than Trump is ahead without a conviction, so the Biden has the advantage of not having any indictments and trials.

The question is will there be any debates if Biden and Trump are the nominees? Trump has avoided debtes so far, and who knows what his motivation is. Trump's rhetoric at his events has been more arratic and his mistakes more common. So I can see why Trump would want to avoid a debate audience seeing his decline. I can't see Trump taking time, or having time, to prepare for debates, so we will see.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
1) Traitor
2) Narcissist
3) Liar
4) Fraudster
5) Insurrectionist
6) Meglomaniac
7) Misogynist
8) Stupid
9) Arrogant
10) Ignorant
11) Perverted
12) Racist
13) Elitist
14) Amoral
15) Lazy
16) Offensive
17) Vengeful
18) Spiteful
19) Petty
20) Vulgar
21) Greedy

Those are some reasons why I don't think I would vote for a creature like Trump.
I noticed that incompetence is not on your list. This list is all about personality, instead of ability. Trump can be abrasive, but that does not have anything to do with his competence. Trump is not there to entertain me, but to get the job done. The Left is way too shallow and tends to pick charisma before competence. They want a TV series President. This is why we have a mess. An actor playing the role of president is not real.

This Trump love to hate fest, reminds me of an Abraham Lincoln story. Lincoln's General staff was complaining about General Grant being a crude drunkard, who smoked cigars and drank during work. They thought he was boorish and undignified for the job, even though Grant was the best field General, winning his battles. Lincoln, in frustration said to his staff " if any of you can be half as competent as Grant, I will be buy the booze." Trump is Grant and the Left are the pretentious General Staff, complaining about personality traits while ignoring competence. Grant would help win the war and would someday become President.
 

Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
This Trump love to hate fest, reminds me of an Abraham Lincoln story.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I hate his policies as much as his personality. He is repulsive as a man as he is a policy maker, I do not agree with any of his policies or political agendas. He is undesirable on all levels. If you do not see what a disgusting vile obnoxious and truly stupid man he truly is. Then you must be a right wing nationalist of some kind. Which means, you see Trump as a means to an end, and can ignore his little foibles. It's just a price to pay. For his despicable agendas, which you wholeheartedly support.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
Innocent until proven guilty. If you disagree with that, suit yourself, but what goes around comes around.
Innocent until proven guilty is the law of the land; which has nothing to do with why I prefer Trump over Biden. If I think you are guilty, I will judge you the same whether you have been convicted or not.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Biden and Pence didn't do anything even similar to Trump. The documents found in their storage areas were collections of non-classified materials, and gathered by aids, not the former vice presidents. It was an error by the aids, not deliberate acts that classified materials were included. Both had to collect and pack documents at the end of their terms, and mistakes in reviewing the materials was the issue. As you note the documents were handed over to the archives once discovered.

In Trump's case he deliberately knew of classified materials and himself packed these into his "boxes" for his own use later. He even ordered others to pack these documents, and then move and manage them once the archives and law enforcement learned they were still in his custody.

Questions remain of what he used them for, both while still president and afterwards. There is a lack of record keeping of Trump's activies and meetings as president, and once he was out there's even less accounting of who he was meeting with. All we have is speculation about whether Trump is a simpleton who wanted what he believed was his, or if he retained these documents as a means to personally profit in some way. With Trump's lack of integrity and ethics we can assume the worst.

He is not fit for office. He never was.
I hope you're right, but last time around I thought he had no chance at all.
 
Top