Trump ordered to pay nearly 355 million in NY fraud case.

[F1fan]

So let me get this straight. It is illegal for someone to go to a bank to take out a loan and put some of their assests up for collateral.

No. But it is illegal to lie in the paperwork used to get loans and interest rates. It's fraud.

They say the assest/s are worth this much and either the company that is giving the loan either agrees or disagrees with your estimate.

Trump lied about the values. He inflated values for collateral, and then deflated values for property taxes. That's fraud.

If they agree fine if they disagree and come up with a different figure you can either negotiate with them or go somewhere else.

So you are advocating for actions that Trump did not allow.

If you think it is illeagal then you would be breaking the law if you asked your boss for a raise and said you were worth X number of dollars.

Trump's actions were illegal. It's not a matter of our opinion.

MAGAs are free to quietly and privately be in denial, but in forums MAGAs will be corrected.

 

[F1fan]

Ouch, Trump's gofundme is really slowing down. Six days in and still hasn't hit a million bucks.

Oh dear, poor Trump. I mean literally, poor Trump.

$939,287 raised of $355,000,000 goal •17K donations

If he can get to a million by tomorrow and that trend continues, it will take 355 weeks for him to get the money. That's 6 years 9 months. He needs the money in less than 30 days.

That doesn't include all the interest. Nor the Carroll judgment.

 

[esmith]

No. But it is illegal to lie in the paperwork used to get loans and interest rates. It's fraud.

Trump lied about the values. He inflated values for collateral, and then deflated values for property taxes. That's fraud.

So you are advocating for actions that Trump did not allow.

Trump's actions were illegal. It's not a matter of our opinion.

MAGAs are free to quietly and privately be in denial, but in forums MAGAs will be corrected.

So it is illegal to put the selling price of your property more than the accessed vaule of the property?

 

[Revoltingest]

So let me get this straight. It is illegal for someone to go to a bank to take out a loan and put some of their assests up for collateral. They say the assest/s are worth this much and either the company that is giving the loan either agrees or disagrees with your estimate. If they agree fine if they disagree and come up with a different figure you can either negotiate with them or go somewhere else.

It's amazing to me that Trump's supporters are so unaware
of the legal climate of real estate lending. They imagine
that what they don't know...cannot be a problem.
Well let me tell you a thing or 2 about commercial lending,
something I've done as both lender & borrower (mostly as
the latter)....
It is a crime to lie on material documents, eg, applications,
mortgages, loan agreements, appraisal documents, etc.
People borrowing far smaller amounts have been prosecuted
for mortgage loan fraud. (This became more common after
the S&L crisis when a third of S&Ls failed because actual
value was short of appraised value. It cost taxpayers over
$130,000,000,000.) Trump lied to borrow more than he
was entitled, & to defraud the lender out of the interest
rate they were entitled. (I also blame corrupt lenders who
ignored their due diligence...not even ordering an appraisal.)
Some reference info...

Mortgage Loan Fraud

Mortgage loan fraud is any misstatement, misrepresentation, or omission made by someone trying to get a loan which is relied upon by a lender. Learn more.

www.legalmatch.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/a-little-lie-on-mortgage-application-can-cost-you-big/2015/06/30/2e2dcff0-1e6b-11e5-aeb9-a411a84c9d55_story.html

Excerpted...
What happens to borrowers who lie about property use and subsequently are found out? Usually it’s not pretty. Lenders can call the loan — demanding immediate, full payment of the outstanding mortgage balance. If the borrowers can’t afford to or refuse to pay, the lender typically moves to foreclose — wrecking whatever plans of long-term investment or vacation-rental-home ownership the borrowers might have had. In cases involving multiple misrepresentations, lenders can also refer the case to the FBI: Lies on mortgage applications are bank fraud and can trigger severe financial penalties, prosecution and prison time if convicted.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So it is illegal to put the selling price of your property more than the accessed vaule of the property?

It's illegal to lie to the bank about how much your collateral is worth. This is fraud.

Why is this such a mental roadblock for you?

 

[F1fan]

So it is illegal to put the selling price of your property more than the accessed vaule of the property?

If you bought a house for $500,000 in 2005 and after the housing collapse happened in 2009 it appraised at $300,000, yes it’s illegal to claim it’s worth half a million to get a loan.

 

[Laniakea]

Not much better as far as sources go. I found this claim on The Guardian as well. Three sources, but all three are not rated highly for reliability. The Hindustan Times says that it was a Reuters story. I couldn't find it. Th Guardian said it was a podcast. No direct link to it and none of the recent podcasts from that source have that info in their descriptions. I was too disheartened to even click on the link.

You could try www.denial.org, which seems to be a credible source for Leftists who can't handle reality.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You could try www.denial.org, which seems to be a credible source for Leftists who can't handle reality.

Name calling is against the rules here. And I am definitely not a leftist. How would you respond to people calling you a fascist?

 

[Laniakea]

It is just too cute that you think getting a bank loan is the equivalent to asking your boss for a raise.

And it's pathetic of Trump-haters to believe that all those successful banks just take a person's word about what a property is worth without any verification before issuing loans in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

[Laniakea]

Name calling is against the rules here. And I am definitely not a leftist. How would you respond to people calling you a fascist?

Who said you're a Leftist?
BTW, I've been called a fascist many times, as well as a Trumper, Putin-lover, rapist-supporter, etc. and my response is to simply let it roll off my back . My skin isn't so thin that I can't handle things like that in a debate forum.

 

[Revoltingest]

And it's pathetic of Trump-haters to believe that all those successful banks just take a person's word about what a property is worth without any verification before issuing loans in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

It's pathetic of Trump's lovers to deny
his fraud, & the lenders' failure to do
their normal due diligence.
Trump committed crimes that other
people are prosecuted for. He should
not be above the law.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If you bought a house for $500,000 in 2005 and after the housing collapse happened in 2009 it appraised at $300,000, yes it’s illegal to claim it’s worth half a million to get a loan.

And at least when it comes to Mar a Lago Trump personally lowered its value himself. Permanently. It is a golf course. As a golf course it can only make a limited amount of money. To lower his taxes he permanently signed over the rights to develop it to Palm Beach. And selling it whole to another buyer would not do any good. The next buyer cannot develop it either. Though not a public park it is still essentially parkland in the city that cannot now be developed. He could probably pay the city for the right to develop it, but the city is not likely to sell those rights back to him a fire sale prices. They would need to make up for past taxes plus interest at the very least and more likely than not could not legally sell it back at much less than market value.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who said you're a Leftist?
BTW, I've been called a fascist many times, as well as a Trumper, Putin-lover, rapist-supporter, etc. and my response is to simply let it roll off my back . My skin isn't so thin that I can't handle things like that in a debate forum.

Don't play silly games. The implication is clear. It is clear that some of those were not name calling when it came to you. I would say that "fascist" is at least hopefully wrong.

 

[Laniakea]

It's pathetic of Trump's lovers to deny
his fraud, & the lenders' failure to do
their normal due diligence.
Trump committed crimes that other
people are prosecuted for. He should
not be above the law.

If Trump committed crimes that other people are prosecuted for, then why is there no precedent that anyone can point to? Who else was prosecuted and found guilty of what they went after Trump for? And why is Kathy Hochul telling other business owners in NY they they have nothing to worry about? It's doubtful that every single other business in NY has already been investigated and all found innocent.

 

[Revoltingest]

If Trump committed crimes that other people are prosecuted for, then why is there no precedent that anyone can point to? Who else was prosecuted and found guilty of what they went after Trump for? And why is Kathy Hochul telling other business owners in NY they they have nothing to worry about? It's doubtful that every single other business in NY has already been investigated and all found innocent.

Did you read any of the links about
loan fraud that I provided earlier?
Read these too....

Five Defendants Indicted in Mortgage Fraud Scheme

An indictment was unsealed today in federal court in Brooklyn charging Iskyo Aronov, Michael Konstantinovskiy, Tomer Dafna, Avraham Tarshish and Michael Herskowitz with conspiracy to commit wire fraud and bank fraud, and related wire fraud counts, in connection with a scheme to defraud mortgage...

www.justice.gov

Understanding Mortgage Fraud: A Comprehensive Guide - Refi.com

Trump committed fraud.
It is a crime that people are prosecuted for.

 

[Laniakea]

It's pathetic of Trump's lovers to deny
his fraud, & the lenders' failure to do
their normal due diligence.
Trump committed crimes that other
people are prosecuted for. He should
not be above the law.

If Trump committed crimes that other people are prosecuted for, then why is there no precedent that anyone can point to? Who else was prosecuted and found guilty of what they went after Trump for? And why is Kathy Hochul telling other business owners in NY they they have nothing to worry about? It's doubtful that every single other business in NY has already been investigated and all found innocent.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If Trump committed crimes that other people are prosecuted for, then why is there no precedent that anyone can point to? Who else was prosecuted and found guilty of what they went after Trump for? And why is Kathy Hochul telling other business owners in NY they they have nothing to worry about? It's doubtful that every single other business in NY has already been investigated and all found innocent.

She had a qualifier. She noted that the vast majority of New Yorkers followed the law. They had nothing to be worried about. And she was right. Look at how massive Trump's fraud was. He inflated the values of his properties by sometimes more than five times their worth. The worst one has to be Mar a Lago. He still overvalues it grossly when he brags about it. Do you want to know why it is worth far less than what he claims it to be? And do you know who agreed with the prosecutor that it was in reality worth only about 18 million, though that was a figure from 2011? Trump did. He argued to get it down to that value. The property's value was last assessed at $37 million dollars. And yet Trump lied and claimed it was worth 23 times its assessed value in the case.

Do you know why those lower values are far more accurate than the high values that he puts on it?

 

[Subduction Zone]

If Trump committed crimes that other people are prosecuted for, then why is there no precedent that anyone can point to? Who else was prosecuted and found guilty of what they went after Trump for? And why is Kathy Hochul telling other business owners in NY they they have nothing to worry about? It's doubtful that every single other business in NY has already been investigated and all found innocent.

There are precedents with this law. What exactly do you want? There are not precedents with as high of a payout because Trump broke the law in an unprecedented fashion. Do you realize that if person breaks a tax law far worse than anyone else has the he will get a far stiffer penalty than anyone else has?

Once again, what sort of precedent do you want to see?

 

[Laniakea]

She had a qualifier. She noted that the vast majority of New Yorkers followed the law. They had nothing to be worried about. And she was right. Look at how massive Trump's fraud was. He inflated the values of his properties by sometimes more than five times their worth. The worst one has to be Mar a Lago. He still overvalues it grossly when he brags about it. Do you want to know why it is worth far less than what he claims it to be? And do you know who agreed with the prosecutor that it was in reality worth only about 18 million, though that was a figure from 2011? Trump did. He argued to get it down to that value. The property's value was last assessed at $37 million dollars. And yet Trump lied and claimed it was worth 23 times its assessed value in the case.

Do you know why those lower values are far more accurate than the high values that he puts on it?

Vast majority doesn't mean all but one.

 

[Laniakea]

There are precedents with this law. What exactly do you want? There are not precedents with as high of a payout because Trump broke the law in an unprecedented fashion. Do you realize that if person breaks a tax law far worse than anyone else has the he will get a far stiffer penalty than anyone else has?

Once again, what sort of precedent do you want to see?

Someone, ANYone who has been convicted of the same thing. Can you show us that?