Trump ordered to pay nearly 355 million in NY fraud case.

[Subduction Zone]

Do you believe that a bank would just hand out money based on what someone puts down on an application without verifying it? Even a regular house loan would have information verified first, let alone a business loan in the tens of millions.

How could the banks have verified the values of Trump's properties? For a house it is easy to get within the ball park. How are banks supposed to know the value of a business?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's better than counting for no reason at all. Is that what you prefer?

Why have you not admitted to being wrong about there being no precedent? Why are you not admitting that Trump lied when he said that there was no precedent?

 

[McBell]

Judge denies Trump's request to delay enforcement of $355M fraud case penalties

The judge in former President Trump's civil fraud case has rejected a request from the defense for a 30-day delay of the enforcement of penalties in the case.

abcnews.go.com

The judge in former President Donald Trump's civil fraud case has rejected a request from the defense to delay the enforcement of the penalties in the case.​

​

The defendants had asked Judge Arthur Engoron to delay the enforcement of the penalties by 30 days to allow for an "orderly post-judgment process."​

​

"You have failed to explain, much less justify, any basis for a stay," Engoron wrote in an email posted Thursday to the court docket. "I am confident that the Appellate Division will protect your appellate rights.​

 

[Callisto]

The cases you cite are businesses that failed and cost people a lot of money. Trump's businesses made money for those he did business with, which in this case was the banks he got loans from.

Do you simply gloss over text instead of reading? This is the second time you've indicated you don't grasp the subject matter.

Corporations are represented by people. Defendants in fraud cases are people, whether the corporation is listed as one of the defendants.

Bernie Madoff went to prison, not his company Madoff Investment Securities. Bernie was the defendant.

Elizabeth Holmes went to prison, not her company Theranos. "Elizabeth Holmes, et. al." were the defendants (she and a couple of other key Theranos associates).

Several Enron executives were the defendants such as CEO Ken Lay, CEO Jeff Skilling, and CFO Andrew Fastow.

Javier Martin-Artajo and Julien Grout were the defendants, not JP Morgan.

If you're going to argue for Trump, it would help you to actually be familiar with the case (as well as the law). Starting with who all were listed as defendants. It's clear you're not:

Trump is the primary and representative of his multiple organizations along with his sons and listed associates.

 

[Stevicus]

Democrat Gov. Scrambles to Get Businesses to Stay

Other businesses in NY are worried about the possible impact on their own businesses.

Critics argued that the ruling sets a concerning precedent for New York business owners.

“The impact on New York business is likely to be dire. New York is already viewed as a hostile business environment, with the top end of its tax base literally heading south as taxes and crime rises,” Turley said. “This draconian award is only going to deepen concerns over the arbitrary application of the law.”

“In the name of protecting businesses in New York, you probably just led to hundreds of businesses looking at potential rentals in Florida because they look and they go, ‘Wow, if we fall on the wrong side of the politics in New York, they could sell us off for spare parts,’” he said.

Ari Fleischer compared New York to a "banana republic."

“So unless the appeals process in New York comes to the rescue, New York has become a legal banana republic,” former President George W. Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer said.

“Democratic NY Governor Hochul effectively tells NY businesses not to worry — it was all about getting Trump,” Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton said.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's better than counting for no reason at all. Is that what you prefer?

Whuh?

 

[Revoltingest]

I do not doubt what you say. Fraud is fraud. I am, though, talking about the specific *NY* law under which the orange criminal is being prosecuted for breaking. I am too lazy to look it up.

We may safely assume that if Trump is being
prosecuted for fraud, then there'd be legislation
making it a crime.
If there were no such legislation, wouldn't you
think his lawyers would raise that as a defense?
But they didn't & don't.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

We may safely assume that if Trump is being
prosecuted for fraud, then there'd be legislation
making it a crime.
If there were no such legislation, wouldn't you
think his lawyers would raise that as a defense?

I don't think we can guarantee that Trump's lawyers would know anything about the law. We all know Trump doesn't have a great track record of spending his money wisely.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't think we can guarantee that Trump's lawyers would know anything about the law. We all know Trump doesn't have a great track record of spending his money wisely.

I'm sure his lawyers know much about the law.
But I also know that many lawyers will do anything
their client is willing to pay for, including
mis-representing the law & facts of the case.
They learn how to do this without being cited
for outright false statements.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I'm sure his lawyers know much about the law.
But I also know that many lawyers will do anything
their client is willing to pay for, including
mis-representing the law & facts of the case.
They learn how to do this without being cited
for outright false statements.

True. In my experience, lawyers tend to be some of the absolute best people at actively avoiding talking about law. They can be very good at that, too.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Democrat Gov. Scrambles to Get Businesses to Stay

Other businesses in NY are worried about the possible impact on their own businesses.





Ari Fleischer compared New York to a "banana republic."

I have seen this claim, but it never comes from well-known reliable sources.

 

[Revoltingest]

True. In my experience, lawyers tend to be some of the absolute best people at actively avoiding talking about law. They can be very good at that, too.

True story....
At UofM Law School, the an old old Ethics 101
exam posed this ethical dilemma:

Man walks in to your law firm's office.
He says "I want to buy 1 hour of your time."
You say "That will be $100."
You talk for an hour.
Man leaves $100 bill on your desk.
Just before man exits the doorway to leave,
you notice a 2nd $100 bill stuck to the first.

Ethics question:
Do you tell or not tell your law firm's
partner about the extra $100?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I do not doubt what you say. Fraud is fraud. I am, though, talking about the specific *NY* law under which the orange criminal is being prosecuted for breaking. I am too lazy to look it up.

New York Executive Law 63 (12)

Trump’s Harsh Punishment Was Made Possible by This New York Law

The little-known measure meant hundreds of millions in penalties in the civil fraud case brought by Attorney General Letitia James.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Stevicus]

I have seen this claim, but it never comes from well-known reliable sources.

I'm not sure, I just saw it come up in the MSN newsfeed. Although the Ari Fleischer quote did sound like something he would say.

A lot of businesses may be leaving NY for any number of possible reasons, although I would doubt that it has much to do with the court ruling.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not sure, I just saw it come up in the MSN newsfeed. Although the Ari Fleischer quote did sound like something he would say.

A lot of businesses may be leaving NY for any number of possible reasons, although I would doubt that it has much to do with the court ruling.

MSN's news feed has a weird algorithm. I look at their sources and this one I have never heard of. I have seen the story from other sources and they have always been of "mixed" factuality.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you believe that a bank would just hand out money based on what someone puts down on an application without verifying it? Even a regular house loan would have information verified first, let alone a business loan in the tens of millions.

The bank would generally require an appraisal of the property... and Trump had a recent appraisal of Mar-a-Lago showing its value as $100 million.

The problem was that even more recently, the deal Trump agreed to with Palm Beach City Council dropped the value to $16 million. Trump knew this, but used the obsolete, invalid appraisal even though he knew it was now false.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Live updates: Trump ordered to pay nearly $355 million in civil fraud trial

A judge has ordered former President Donald Trump and his companies to pay nearly $355 million in a ruling in the New York civil fraud case. Follow here for the latest live news updates.

www.cnn.com

" A judge has ordered former President Donald Trump and his companies to pay nearly $355 million in a ruling"

"The former president is also barred from serving as an officer or director of any New York corporation or other legal entity in the state for three years, and he cannot apply for loans from any financial institution registered in New York for three years. Meanwhile, his adult sons, Donald Jr. and Eric, have been ordered to pay $4 million for their personal profits from the fraud."

As was expected.

He has an 8th amendment case for excessive fines.

This case was brought by a prosecutor that was out to get Trump. She said she was going to find a way to prosecute Trump and called him an illegitimate president. This was nothing more than stalanistic type prosecution. Trump was guilty before she even became attorney general.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He has an 8th amendment case for excessive fines.

This case was brought by a prosecutor that was out to get Trump. She said she was going to find a way to prosecute Trump and called him an illegitimate president. This was nothing more than stalanistic type prosecution. Trump was guilty before she even became attorney general.

Technically it is disgorgement so it is not even a fine. It is the return of ill gotten gains. This has been going on for a long long time. One thing about an ongoing crime, as this was, is that one can go back beyond what would have been the statute of limitations when it comes to prosecution. For example, Ivanka Trump was subpoenaed and forced to testify. Because she had not been involved for a number of years the statute of limitations applied to her. She still had to testify as to her role in the enterprise though she could not be prosecuted. The others were responsible going way back because they were part of the continuous action. What was taken back were the profits that he made due to his cheating.

 

[Callisto]

He has an 8th amendment case for excessive fines.

This case was brought by a prosecutor that was out to get Trump. She said she was going to find a way to prosecute Trump and called him an illegitimate president. This was nothing more than stalanistic type prosecution. Trump was guilty before she even became attorney general.

No, he doesn't. The 8th Amendment pertains to criminal cases, not civil cases.

The Eighth Amendment:

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.” This amendment prohibits the federal government from imposing unduly harsh penalties on criminal defendants​

National Constitution Center

Try researching reliable sources rather than believing wholesale everything Trump and his sycophants fabricate.

 

[metis]

This case was brought by a prosecutor that was out to get Trump. She said she was going to find a way to prosecute Trump and called him an illegitimate president. This was nothing more than stalanistic type prosecution. Trump was guilty before she even became attorney general.

Can you provide even a shred of evidence for the above?