Tucker Carlson, Colonel Douglas Macgregor, The Ukraine War

[ImmortalFlame]

Nope. I'm saying IMO Ukraine can't win that war.
If it had been any country besides Russia other countries would have already been more involved. But no one wants to provoke the bear so instead they keep throwing money and weapons at Ukraine hoping they can hang on and do damage to Russia, which in turn causes/will cause more death and destruction.

So, what's the alternative? Should poorer, weaker countries have no recourse but to submit to the will of aggressive invaders?

All (non-Russian) sources seem to indicate that, actually, Ukraine is doing well. There are significantly more Russia casualties than Ukrainian casualties, and considering Putin expected this war to be over in DAYS, that says a lot.

 

[lukethethird]

It follows your pro-Russian imperialist narrative.


We aren't fighting. They are. They're fighting against Russia because, yeah, they're a democracy and Russia is an authoritarian, imperialist army invading their borders. They don't want that. They're being given guns because they don't want to be a part of Russia (the aforementioned authoritarian, imperialist state), so they are resisting invasion with the aid of their military allies.

See, what you actually talk about the facts involved, you realize what the situation actually is. It's not a "border dispute". Russia have explicitly invaded Ukraine. They even ACKNOWLEDGING CROSSING THE BORDER INTO UKRAINE. The border was not, at any point, "disputed" by Russia or Ukraine.

You're an imperialist.

Not falling for your BS makes me a pro Russian imperialist, I see. Let me guess, you are on the side of good in this battle of good vs evil playing out in your mind.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I didn't tell you Russia was "Forced" to invade ..

You said Russia was "provoked" as if there was no option BUT to invade a sovereign state. There was always an alternative. He could just have not invaded. Nobody forced him to.

so why are you making up nonsense and attributing this to me. and who said it was a proxy war simply on the basis of one nation assisting another ?

You did. You said it's a proxy war. Since the only role the USA has is assisting Ukraine with weapons, that's exactly what you are saying.

Do you have anything other than tarring others with made up falsehood .. you are correct that there is definitely a lack of brain cell activity going on though.

Uh huh.

Zelenski was wanting to negotiate early on in the conflict .. Biden told him No .. The west will give full support .. but, like all the other of Biden's JV-Proxy teams left abandoned and betrayed .. Ukraine will be no different.

Any source for this claim?

You need to learn what the words you use mean ... Proxy war - obviously you have no clue.. also "Propaganda" Either you have been knowingly drinking down koolaid knowing it was spiked .. or you simply do not know what Propaganda is. Just because you bought into the lie ... the "propaganda" .. does not make the one who informed you of the lie a propagandist.. now go and learn !

I see you repeating a lot of buzzswords and no actual argument or facts.

Not surprising. Russian propagandists don't actually have any arguments or values. Just a bunch of empty phrases stuck to their brains like bumper-stickers.

"Oh! You don't LIKE Russia invading Ukraine and think it's bad! Well, that's because you DRANK THE KOOLAID! It's a clearly a PROXY WAR because that's when a country fights against another country it is being invaded by and the USA is tangentially involved, LOL! Continue to read your PROPAGANDA you SHEEPLE!"

I'm not impressed.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Not falling for your BS makes me a pro Russian imperialist, I see.

No, the fact that you downplay the invasion as a "border dispute" and don't think Ukraine's military allies should get in engaged in helping to defend Ukraine against Russian imperialism makes you a pro-Russian imperialist.

Let me guess, you are on the side of good in this battle of good vs evil playing out in your mind.

The fact that you're not responding to my arguments and just making stuff up speaks volumes about your position. You have nothing.

Except that you're an imperialist.

 

[We Never Know]

So, what's the alternative? Should poorer, weaker countries have no recourse but to submit to the will of aggressive invaders?

All (non-Russian) sources seem to indicate that, actually, Ukraine is doing well. There are significantly more Russia casualties than Ukrainian casualties, and considering Putin expected this war to be over in DAYS, that says a lot.

"So, what's the alternative? Should poorer, weaker countries have no recourse but to submit to the will of aggressive invaders"

I don't know a alternative and not I am not saying that. Read my post again.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"So, what's the alternative? Should poorer, weaker countries have no recourse but to submit to the will of aggressive invaders"

I don't know a alternative and not I am not saying that. Read my post again.

The alternative is the whole point. Just saying "I don't like war - we should negotiate for peace" doesn't help in a situation where a country is BEING INVADED by an imperialist neighbour that is NOT ENGAGING IN PEACE TALKS. So, what's the alternative? Should Ukraine just die because war bad?

 

[lukethethird]

The fact that you're not responding to my arguments and just making stuff up speaks volumes about your position. You have nothing.

Except that you're an imperialist.

You haven't made an argument, you are just playing out a fantasy in your own mind because of the propaganda that you are fed and that you swallow whole. I know the narrative and I am not buying it which in your mind makes me pro Russian. You've got nothing.

 

[We Never Know]

The alternative is the whole point. Just saying "I don't like war - we should negotiate for peace" doesn't help in a situation where a country is BEING INVADED by an imperialist neighbour that is NOT ENGAGING IN PEACE TALKS. So, what's the alternative? Should Ukraine just die because war bad?

"The alternative is the whole point"

Whats your alternative?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You haven't made an argument,

Maybe, if you ignore all the arguments I've made.

you are just playing out a fantasy in your own mind because of the propaganda that you are fed and that you swallow whole.

Oh yeah? And what propaganda is that? That Russia invaded Ukraine and that it's not a "Border dispute" as you call it?

I know the narrative and I am not buying it which in your mind makes me pro Russian. You've got nothing.

I'm literally destroying and exposing you in multiple threads right now.

Because you're an imperialist.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"The alternative is the whole point"

Whats your alternative?

Alternative to what? We're doing what I think we SHOULD be doing. Allowing Ukraine the ability to defend itself against a military aggressor by continuing to support them with weapons.

I'm asking YOU what the alternative is TO THAT, considering peace negotiations are already off the table but you seem to believe we SHOULDN'T be supporting them with weapons. So, what's the alternative to the above?

 

[We Never Know]

Alternative to what? We're doing what I think we SHOULD be doing. Allowing Ukraine the ability to defend itself against a military aggressor by continuing to support them with weapons.

I'm asking YOU what the alternative is TO THAT, considering peace negotiations are already off the table but you seem to believe we SHOULDN'T be supporting them with weapons. So, what's the alternative to the above?

Sooner or later Putin may get tired of ****ing around and use a nuke. Then what?
Country's will shame him, condemn him, etc etc but nothing will happen.
Just like when we dropped two on Japan. Others condemned us, shamed us, etc but nothing much else happened. And our excuse was, it was needed to win the war.

 

[PureX]

Just a detail: Putin doesn't intend to conquer Ukraine.
He exclusively intends to keep the four regions he conquered, plus Crimea.
So it's Ukrainians who want to take those regions back and they are losing everything, because the EU will do anything to push Ukraine towards the negotiations of peace.
The war's over.

It doesn't matter what he claims he wants. He attacked another country militarily with the intention of taking important territorial assets from it. And that country defended itself militarily, as would be expected. And now he is being forced to relinquish what he took. When he does that the war will be over.

 

[lukethethird]

Alternative to what? We're doing what I think we SHOULD be doing. Allowing Ukraine the ability to defend itself against a military aggressor by continuing to support them with weapons.

I'm asking YOU what the alternative is TO THAT, considering peace negotiations are already off the table but you seem to believe we SHOULDN'T be supporting them with weapons. So, what's the alternative to the above?

Allowing Ukraines to fight and die so you can play out your fantasy. This isn't a game, the war is real, Ukraine blood is being shed and you are all for drawing this out for what, as long as it takes? You're so brave.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Sooner or later Putin may get tired of ****ing around and use a nuke.

I doubt Putin is going to start a global nuclear conflict.

Then what?
Country's will shame him, condemn him, etc etc but nothing will happen.
Just like when we dropped two on Japan. Others condemned us, shamed us, etc but nothing much else happened. And our excuse was, it was needed to win the war.

You're not answering the question. Are you stating that countries should just never do anything that could upset nuclear powers, because they might drop a nuke? So, we should just acquiesce to their demands and allow weaker, non-nuclear-armed states to become vassal states to their nuclear neighbours, with no recourse whatsoever?

What you're providing is excuses to do NOTHING about invasions, war crimes, totalitarianism and imperialism. Doesn't exactly sound like a great idea.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Allowing Ukraines to fight and die so you can play out your fantasy.

Last I checked, I wasn't Putin. I didn't start this war, nor do I have the ability to end it.

This isn't a game, the war is real, Ukraine blood is being shed and you are all for drawing this out for what, as long as it takes? You're so brave.

I'm in favour of countries fending off imperialism.

You're not, I take it?

Because of your imperialism?

 

[We Never Know]

I doubt Putin is going to start a global nuclear conflict.


You're not answering the question. Are you stating that countries should just never do anything that could upset nuclear powers, because they might drop a nuke? So, we should just acquiesce to their demands and allow weaker, non-nuclear-armed states to become vassal states to their nuclear neighbours, with no recourse whatsoever?

What you're providing is excuses to do NOTHING about invasions, war crimes, totalitarianism and imperialism. Doesn't exactly sound like a great idea.

"I doubt Putin is going to start a global nuclear conflict"

No one thought we would nuke Japan.
It won't be global if Putin uses a nuke IMO.

The rest of yours post is just false accusations because I don't see things as you do.
As I've already stated I don't know an alternative.

BUT in a few years tell me you feel the same when the war is still dragging on(if Putin hasn't gone nuke by then) and Ukraine is getting wore down and destroyed to nothing.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"I doubt Putin is going to start a global nuclear conflict"

No one thought we would nuke Japan.
It won't be global if Putin uses a nuke IMO.

The rest of yours post is just false accusations because I don't see things as you do.

It's the implications of what you're saying. You're suggesting our intervention in Ukraine is somehow bad, because "what if it gets worse" or "what if Putin drops a nuke"? Because the alternative is literally allowing countries that have nukes, or invade other countries, to just do whatever they want with little to no international response. That's the logical consequence of your position. If helping Ukraine is bad, then what is the alternative?

As I've already stated I don't know an alternative.

BUT in a few years tell me you feel the same when the war is still dragging on(if Putin hasn't gone nuke by then) and Ukraine is getting wore down and destroyed to nothing.

You keep saying these things, and yet you acknowledge that there DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE.

Let's make this simple: are you in favour of cutting off aid to Ukraine, and allowing them to be taken over by Russia, if it means an end to the war?

 

[lukethethird]

Last I checked, I wasn't Putin. I didn't start this war, nor do I have the ability to end it.


I'm in favour of countries fending off imperialism.

You're not, I take it?

Because of your imperialism?

Like the countries that fended off the US when they invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, Grenada, yes Grenada, the US invaded Grenada, and bombed Syria, Libya, and so on and so on. You mean those countries, the ones that came to their defense?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Like the countries that fended off the US when they invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, Grenada, yes Grenada, the US invaded Grenada, and bombed Syria, Libya, and so on and so on. You mean those countries, the ones that came to their defense?

Please find a single example of me defending the US for any of those things. Or calling any of those things "border disputes". If the only response you can muster to defend Russian imperialism and your implicit defence of it is "but... but... but... America did (something similar) too!" then you don't have an ethical framework and you're not an anti-imperialist. You're just anti-American imperialism. But you're either indifferent (or explicitly supportive) when other countries do it.

Don't pretend you're anti-imperialist.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"Let's make this simple: are you in favour of cutting off aid to Ukraine, and allowing them to be taken over by Russia, if it means an end to the war?"

That's an alternative. Now let me make this simple as I've stated several times.. "I don't know an alternative"

Then stop insinuating that supporting Ukraine with arms is somehow wrong. You don't have an alternative that doesn't explicitly enable imperialism and war.