Tucker Carlson, Colonel Douglas Macgregor, The Ukraine War

[PureX]

Take who seriously .. Carlson ? who cares .. as we are talking about MacGreggor .. and "No reputable news program" would not take him seriously ? .. just difficult to find a reputable news program these days..

and what is with this Russiagate cancelgate nonsense trope ? Carlson in league with Putin .. as is Trump .. Tulsi Gabbard .. and anyone else the left wants to demonize .. "Enemies of the State"

That is pure spoon fed koolaid you are regurgitating there Friend .. Pablum Plus for Neocon's.. the demonization trope for those who dissent.. Anti -War = Putin Apologist Anti-Vax = Putin Apologist Anti-Censorship = Putin Apologist

This some kind of warped Orwellian doublespeak coupled with Russophobia .. misplaced loyalties and patriotism.

You should move to Russia and join the army. They really need true believers like you right now.

 

[Estro Felino]

The US is simply supporting it's NATO allies in their desire to stop this unjustified aggression

I want the names.
Who these NATO allies are.

 

[Sargonski]

The US is simply supporting it's NATO allies in their desire to stop this unjustified aggression. Putin should have considered this before he attacked Ukraine. But he was lost in his arrogance, and thought the world wouldn't get involved.

Too bad for him, now, and for Russia for following him. His little military adventure has blown up in his face and is costing him and Russia, dearly, in lives and resources.

Pure propaganda trope ... .. good grief " Poor little US the victim is simply supporting its NATO Allies" Holy gobbledy gook spin winder grinder. Since when have US proxy wars ever been simple .. and US the Victim .. ????

"Unjustified Aggression" .. how would you know .. justified or not ? Bold claim from someone spouting all this spoon fed propaganda trope thusfar .. doesn't sound like you have good sources .. and certainly not both sides of the story .. but hey .. floor is yours - Tell us about Putin's justification for the Speacial Denazification Operation ? and tell us why this justification fails relative to similar Victim US Justification - Iraq - Libya- Kosovo-Syria -Yemen .. pick a card from the pile... it matters not to your lost position.

 

[anna.]

You still don't get it? When people say "the West," it's an ideological thing that more or less translates to the Christianized chunk of the world. But it doesn't mean things are homogeneous.
"Mainstream media." Very frequently the people complaining as of late have no idea what that means and are obvious to the fact they are getting their opinions and info from mainstream media, which includes news, music, TV, books and other information that's distributed to consumers and meant for consumption.
"Mainstream Western Media" includes Carlson and the source of your poll thingy in the other thread.
Amd you've made about as many false assumptions about me as I have made posts in this thread and the other one I mentioned.

Fox News is mainstream news, and Fox supporters (or Fox talking head supporters) don't seem to get that.

 

[Mock Turtle]

anybody could be talking nonsense ... and in fact they usually are if it is mainstream media these days .. which includes the BBC who is little better than CNN these days .. certainly on the Covid or the Ukraine war... Big Time Thick Fog going on .. what ever the Russian Media is doing not-withstanding .. your "Bribing and Killing" comment purile nonsense on this basis .. and fallacy as have nothing to do with the credibility of an individual being interviewed .. and you should be suspect of everyone regardless.

BBC? Well they do have quite good standing worldwide as to being reliable, but we here in the UK, like so many others, do get a chance at viewing all sorts of views as to virtually anything - ah, for press freedoms - Putin, take note - as if.

People have this idiotic idea that a State Sponsored Propaganda mouthpiece is going to lie all the time .. but that would be just stupid now wouldn't it .. is not very good propaganda if everyone knows it is propaganda. As Such .. much of what you see is going to be credibilt .. and real .. is up to you to figure out what is not ..

Haha - really think that so many Russians have the ability to search out non-governmental information, especially when their media and computer access is state-controlled. This is more the issue, that he is preaching the message to those who cannot be allowed to have other viewpoints - given he has destroyed any political opposition, has booted out all independent media, and threatens (and imposes) ludicrous punishments on those who oppose him. Like to see that in wherever you live?

In war .. the winning side has no reason to lie . and every reason to tell the Truth .. it is the losing side that tells the lies .. and in this conflict things have not been going so well .. so bad .. they put out commercials telling people to shush up .. shhhhhhhhh .. with finger to lips. Have you never heard of the "Sin of Omission" friend

Winning? You must have ignored the fact of his 'special operation' having turned into a full-scale war between the two countries (and lasting a year and a half so far), and even if neither side will come out of this as winners, it was Putin who has instigated this, has seemingly miscalculated, and who will ultimately be seen as the fool that he is.

Which side do you think is floating the propaganda so if I am listening to some fellow .. saying the war is going well for Russia .. he is more likely to be telling the truth in what he says .... simply because Russia is winning .. and out own side has told us this .. not directly so that the raging massess still don't know what is going on .. but indirectly so they can go back later and say .. Look -- we had fair and balanced coverage .. or look we told you so.

Again haha. There is only propaganda coming out of Russia, given opposing views are simply silenced. Do you really think that many of us in the West accept any and all news coming out about this conflict?

Only someone very drunk on the Koolaid would comment "when there is any independent media in Russia please link such. Killing or bribing seems to be the Russian way these days" as is just silly nonsense.

There is no independent media in Russia - so please supply such. As to the second, perhaps you have missed all the news concerning so many who were once close to Putin or even supported him but who seemingly have died in mysterious ways. And this is besides the ones we know were most likely targeted by Putin for crossing him - even a very recent example.

There is always independent media on the edges .. the majority controlled on both sides. Also there is suppression of information on both sides .. Russia is just more overt .. but, because of this .. not as effective.

There is no independent media in Russia. No opposing views allowed. And fewer freedoms now due to Putin being in command.

Did you not think we kill people in the USA for crossing the line ? .. Time to wake up from the necessary illusion Friend. and as far as bribing goes ????? how many memo's did you miss ? Our system is a Pay to Play system .. we have the most bribed/coerced media next to North Korea in that respect.. Right up there with Russia - China - Iran - and lest we forget the Kingdom of El Saud.

Citing other nations and examples of decadence is hardly a good argument. We are supposed to be above such things in modern democracies. Well, those of us who do have some principles - like proper justice.

 

[Sargonski]

You should move to Russia and join the army. They really need true believers like you right now.

It is not me who believes the War Propaganda ... What a delightfully priceless piece of projection "You should Move to Russia and Join the Army" LOL I am not the one calling out for war .. thats all you Brother Pure .. I am on the "anti war" side of the fence. Did you forget ? .. You be the one drank down the war Kool-aid .. big supporter of Biden's latest JV- Proxy Team - and Ukraine really needs believers like you right now ...you should move to Ukraine and Join the Army Maybe they will teach you the "Orc Orc" Cheer .. and other Nazi dehumanization tropes available at the Azov Band Camp

 

[Sargonski]

BBC? Well they do have quite good standing worldwide as to being reliable, but we here in the UK, like so many others, do get a chance at viewing all sorts of views as to virtually anything - ah, for press freedoms - Putin, take note - as if.


Haha - really think that so many Russians have the ability to search out non-governmental information, especially when their media and computer access is state-controlled. This is more the issue, that he is preaching the message to those who cannot be allowed to have other viewpoints - given he has destroyed any political opposition, has booted out all independent media, and threatens (and imposes) ludicrous punishments on those who oppose him. Like to see that in wherever you live?


Winning? You must have ignored the fact of his 'special operation' having turned into a full-scale war between the two countries (and lasting a year and a half so far), and even if neither side will come out of this as winners, it was Putin who has instigated this, has seemingly miscalculated, and who will ultimately be seen as the fool that he is.

Again haha. There is only propaganda coming out of Russia, given opposing views are simply silenced. Do you really think that many of us in the West accept any and all news coming out about this conflict?

There is no independent media in Russia - so please supply such. As to the second, perhaps you have missed all the news concerning so many who were once close to Putin or even supported him but who seemingly have died in mysterious ways. And this is besides the ones we know were most likely targeted by Putin for crossing him - even a very recent example.


There is no independent media in Russia. No opposing views allowed. And fewer freedoms now due to Putin being in command.


Citing other nations and examples of decadence is hardly a good argument. We are supposed to be above such things in modern democracies. Well, those of us who do have some principles - like proper justice.

Yes .. there is independent media in Russia .. they just get thrown in jail quicker than over here .. You have no clue what you are talking about .. and it is not being argued that Russia is some bastion of Free speech to begin ... so this is some big strawman fallacy on yur part.

Of course citing other nations is a good argument .. argument for what ? you don't even say what a nonsensical comment of meaningless nosense.

What things are we supposed to be above ?? and since when do we have proper justice ?? and what does any of this have to do with the legitimacy of this proxy war .. aside from the vacuous ad hom fallacy.

 

[Stevicus]

Take who seriously .. Carlson ? who cares .. as we are talking about MacGreggor .. and "No reputable news program" would not take him seriously ? .. just difficult to find a reputable news program these days..

and what is with this Russiagate cancelgate nonsense trope ? Carlson in league with Putin .. as is Trump .. Tulsi Gabbard .. and anyone else the left wants to demonize .. "Enemies of the State"

That is pure spoon fed koolaid you are regurgitating there Friend .. Pablum Plus for Neocon's.. the demonization trope for those who dissent.. Anti -War = Putin Apologist Anti-Vax = Putin Apologist Anti-Censorship = Putin Apologist

This some kind of warped Orwellian doublespeak coupled with Russophobia .. misplaced loyalties and patriotism.

"Enemies of the State." I guess it depends on which "State" we're talking about. There might be divided loyalties, as there are many nowadays who equate loyalty to America as being the same thing as loyalty to Ukraine.

Unless Congress officially declares war on Russia, then we are officially neutral in this conflict, in which case Americans are free to advocate for either side or no side in this conflict.

As George Washington noted in his Farewell Address:


The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is, in extending our
commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible. So far as
we have already formed engagements let them be fulfilled with perfect good faith. Here
let us stop.

Europe has a set of primary interests which to us have none or a very remote relation.
Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies, the causes of which are essentially
foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves
by artificial ties in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics or the ordinary combinations
and collisions of her friendships or enmities.

It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world, so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it;

https://cptl.asu.edu/sites/default/files/2021-06/Q86%20Washington%2C%20Farewell%20Address%20%281796%29_CPTL.pdf

 

[Mock Turtle]

Yes .. there is independent media in Russia .. they just get thrown in jail quicker than over here .. You have no clue what you are talking about .. and it is not being argued that Russia is some bastion of Free speech to begin ... so this is some big strawman fallacy on yur part.

Rubbish. Show such. You wouldn't recognise a strawman even if you were watching The Wizard of Oz.

Of course citing other nations is a good argument .. argument for what ? you don't even say what a nonsensical comment of meaningless nosense.

What things are we supposed to be above ?? and since when do we have proper justice ?? and what does any of this have to do with the legitimacy of this proxy war .. aside from the vacuous ad hom fallacy.

Nonsense, nonsense, bla, bla, bla. Ad hom? Well who is the hypocrite when you are not above using such.

And why not just change you name to Sarkaski - so much more obvious then? Auditioning for Putin's Troll factory?

 

[Colt]

The US is simply supporting it's NATO allies in their desire to stop this unjustified aggression. Putin should have considered this before he attacked Ukraine. But he was lost in his arrogance, and thought the world wouldn't get involved.

Too bad for him, now, and for Russia for following him. His little military adventure has blown up in his face and is costing him and Russia, dearly, in lives and resources.

I agree and almost all of the unilateral support across most media platforms generally promotes this view, but MacGregor is saying that Putin can outlast Ukraine and then what??? At what point will an American president be addressing the nation to sell the idea that American boots on the ground will be needed? Is Macgregor so wrong to be pointing out that things may not be going as well as we are being told?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I am on the "anti war" side of the fence.

Cool. So, why not attack Russia and Putin - the side that started the war - rather than attacking the USA, who are just providing arms to an allied nation being attacked?

 

[Stevicus]

I agree and almost all of the unilateral support across most media platforms generally promotes this view, but MacGregor is saying that Putin can outlast Ukraine and then what??? At what point will an American president be addressing the nation to sell the idea that American boots on the ground will be needed? Is Macgregor so wrong to be pointing out that things may not be going as well as we are being told?

Russia probably could outlast Ukraine. Western sanctions aren't really as demoralizing as some might believe, since the Russians still can grow food and have access to resources, industries, tools, and technologies to continue on. They have other trading partners in this world. Of course, there have been some within Russia who aren't entirely supportive of Putin, where they might say "protecting the Donbas is one thing, bombing Kyiv is yet another thing." That's where Putin shot himself in the foot, by launching an all-out assault on the entire country - especially when he wasn't truly prepared.

Now, it appears to have become a war of attrition. Ukraine has now become totally dependent upon the West. The message is loud and clear: Without Western aid and materiel assistance, Ukraine will fall. So, at least on that point, that the way may not be going as well as we're being told, there may be some merit to that. Wartime coverage invariably tends to lean towards an "our-side-is-winning" approach to boost civilian morale and ensure civilian support for the war.

If it gets to the point where the US or other NATO countries feel the need to send their own troops into Ukraine to bolster the Ukrainian defense, then that would be an escalation of hostilities with Russia.

 

[PureX]

I want the names.
Who these NATO allies are.

Germany, Poland, Scandinavia, Denmark, and Israel. To name just a few of the bigger ones. And there are a number of non NATO countries that share the same desire to stop Putin. And all of these are helping Ukraine with weapons, technology and information.

It's why Putin is in trouble.

 

[Estro Felino]

Germany, Poland, Scandinavia, Denmark, and Israel. To name just a few of the bigger ones. And there are a number of non NATO countries that share the same desire to shop Putin. And all of these are helping Ukraine with weapons, technology and information.

It's why Putin is in trouble.

I understand. But almost all these countries are members of the EU, which implies common views on war.
And as far as I know, the EU is absolutely against an escalation of the conflict.

 

[PureX]

I understand. But almost all these countries are members of the EU, which implies common views on war.
And as far as I know, the EU is absolutely against an escalation of the conflict.

Putin keeps trying to double down everytime his army fails. And the alliance supporting Ukraine just helps them all the more in response.

Putin can't win this. But he can't stop it, either, because he can't be seen to have lost. Sooner or later he will run out of soldiers and equipment to sacrifice to his ego. And then it will be over.

I feel sad for the Russian people, but he is their leader and they will suffer the consequences.

 

[Estro Felino]

Putin keeps trying to double down everytime his army fails. And the alliance supporting Ukraine just helps them all the more in response.

Putin can't win this. But he can't stop it, either, because he can't be seen to have lost. Sooner or later he will run out of soldiers and equipment to sacrifice to his ego. And then it will be over.

I feel sad for the Russian people, but he is their leader and they will suffer the consequences.

Numerically, Russian people are more than Ukrainian people so it looks like a paradoxical scenario.
Which means, it's Zelenskyy who is running out of soldiers.

 

[PureX]

Numerically, Russian people are more than Ukrainian people so it looks like a paradoxical scenario.
Which means, it's Zelenskyy who is running out of soldiers.

It's not about losing soldiers, only. It's about losing armaments. The supply to Ukraine is inexhaustible. Not so for Putin. And he just lost a bunch of brand new fighter jets to Ukraine, as well as having a bunch of his ships sunk on the Black Sea. He had to withdraw his air defenses back to Moscow because the Ukrainians have Patriot missiles that can reach that far. Leaving his army in Ukraine without protection, and his enemies with two dozen of his fighter jets to attack them with. His soldiers are being told to fight with no weapons or ammunition. And they aren't going to agree to do that for long.

Meanwhile the ruble has crashed and the oligarchs supporting Putin's military are pulling their money because they don't see him gaining the territory and resources in the Ukraine that they thought they'd be getting hold of and get rich off of.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's not about losing soldiers, only. It's about losing armaments. The supply to Ukraine is inexhaustible. Not so for Putin. And he just lost a bunch of brand new fighter jets to Ukraine, as well as having a bunch of his ships sunk on the Black Sea. He had to withdraw his air defenses back to Moscow because the Ukrainians have Patriot missiles that can reach that far. Leaving his army in Ukraine without protection, and his enemies with two dozen of his fighter jets to attack them with. His soldiers are being told to fight with no weapons or ammunition. And they aren't going to agree to do that for long.

Meanwhile the ruble has crashed and the oligarchs supporting Putin's military are pulling their money because they don't see him gaining the territory and resources in the Ukraine that they thought they'd be getting hold of and get rich off of.

Just a detail: Putin doesn't intend to conquer Ukraine.
He exclusively intends to keep the four regions he conquered, plus Crimea.
So it's Ukrainians who want to take those regions back and they are losing everything, because the EU will do anything to push Ukraine towards the negotiations of peace.
The war's over.

 

[Sargonski]

Cool. So, why not attack Russia and Putin - the side that started the war - rather than attacking the USA, who are just providing arms to an allied nation being attacked?

I do attack Russia and Putin ... Do you not understand what the term "Anti War" means ? - it means "Anti War" Providing arms to Ukraine is war by proxy .. is prolonging the war .. causing more death and destruction ... in a war provoked in large part by USA-NATO.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Fox News is mainstream news, and Fox supporters (or Fox talking head supporters) don't seem to get that.

Yup. It's way more mainstream than a lot of the metal and rap I listen to. Just as mainstream as CNN and MSNBC amd Huffpo.