Updated version of why I don't accept Bahai Faith.

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Also, in another tradition, it is narrated from Imam Muhammad al-Baqir that Allah had given the kingdom to Sulayman from East to West. He ruled for 700 years and 7 months. Every man and Jinn, Satan and devil, birds, and wild animals were subservient to his command, and Allah had given him knowledge of each and everything. In his times, amazing and wonderful miracles occurred that were etched is in the memory of the people.

 

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I used this: انبیای بنی اسرائیل - ویکی فقه


Then i went to wiki to find their dates.

Maybe something is wrong with the list or info, but if you have time, help me to correct it.

Well, I don't know the timings. But I've read Sulaiman (a) lived 712 years and started his rule at age of 12.

 

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According to a tradition of Imam Al-Hasan al-’Askari Prophet told his follower Zaid bin Arqam that if he wanted to save himself from drowning, burning, choking to death, he should recite this Dua every morning:

“Bismillahe MashaAllaho la yasrifus-su’a, Il-lallaho, Bismillahe MashaAllaho la-yasukul Khaira illallaho. Bismillahe Masha Allaho Ma-yakuno min-nehmatin, famenallahe. Bismillahe MashaAllaho la haulo wala kuwwata illa billahil Aliyal Azeem. Bismillahe MashaAllaho Sal-lul-laho ala Muhammadin wa-alehit Taiyabin.”

Those who recite this Dua three times in the morning and three times in the evening will be protected from all kinds of troubles.

Prophet said that al-Khidhr and Ilyas meet each other in Hajj every year and recite the above Dua when they depart part.

 

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Imam Muhammad al-Taqi is quoted in a book that Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq said that once his father Imam Muhammad al-Baqir was circumambulating the Ka‘bah when a man came. After the Imam’s circumambulation he took him to a house near the hill of Makkah. “He called me there. The three of us were there and no one else. He welcomed Imam as-Sadiq and blessed the Imam by putting his head on Imam’s head. Then he turned his face to Imam Muhammad al-Baqir and said, “Would you like to inform me first or I question you? Imam- Muhammad al-Baqir said, “As you like.”

The man said, “If I ask you question, answer me only with what is inspired in your heart.” Imam al-Baqir replied that he had heard from his father that he who ask like this has two types of knowledge (ideas) which are different from each other, the knowledge of divine has no differentiation. The man said my question this, what is that? Imam replied- Allah, the great. And he has given the knowledge to the Prophet and Imams for the necessity of the people. Hearing this he lifted his veil from his face and sat comfortably and became very happy and said, I have came for this reason. Then he inquired that the necessity of the knowledge for the people has been given to the Prophet and their descendent but say how they know? Imam said, by revelation of Allah and they hear the voice of angels but the Prophets can see them, the descendents can’t. They can listen the angel’s voice. The status of the Prophet is very high and they can go to Allah and talk in the moment and come back. But this position is not given to all. The man said, “It is true what you have said, O, the son of Prophet! Now I will ask you a difficult problem. Why does Imam not disclose their knowledge on the people as the Prophet did?”

Hearing this Imam al-Baqir laughed and said that Allah does not want the ordinary people to be notified of divine knowledge except His apostles, as Allah has tested their hearts. Prophet Muhammad al-Mustafa kept patience on high handedness of the people of Makkah by the permission of Allah and Allah had not given permission of war against the unbelievers and kept secret of his Prophethood to his community. Then after a long period Allah revealed to him to do publicize His orders to the unbelievers. The Prophet did, first he was worried to tell them openly. He was waiting for the correct time to show his position and his Divine knowledge because he knew people would not believe him. He had no permission of war. Prophet said, to wait until the approach of Imam al-Mahdi and take revenge of Prophet’s killer and ungrateful persons and give them punishment with their companions. Hearing him the man drew his sword and said, “This sword is one of the sword when there will be great battle against sinners.” Imam al-Baqir said, “Yes, By Allah, Prophet Muhammad is a true and respectable Prophet.” Again that person covered his face and said, “I am Ilyas and whatever I asked, I knew it well. But I wanted to strengthen faith.” Then he asked many questions and disappeared.

 

[danieldemol]

It is quoted by Shoghi Effendi in 'The Promised Day is Come' the second paragraph.

The Promised Day Is Come | Bahá’í Reference Library

A letter written by Shoghi Effendi to the Bahá’ís of the West, dated 28 March 1941.

www.bahai.org

Regards Tony

So you can't provide the tablet in full, just an edited version of it by Shoghi Effendi in my opinion.

Looks self contradictory anyway as Baha'u'llah says, "the time is come" then appears to follow it with "the hour is soon approaching", so which is it - the time is come or its not come but soon approaching? And "soon" but we are still waiting for it 160 years after the fact? Sounds like the ambiguous language of a false prophet to me. Doesn't God know the specific time of chastisement?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Well, I don't know the timings. But I've read Sulaiman (a) lived 712 years and started his rule at age of 12.

So, according to Islam, which Prophets the Jews killed? Can you name a couple of them?

 

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So, according to Islam, which Prophets the Jews killed? Can you name a couple of them?

I think according to tafsir Hassan Al-Askari (a). It's Imran(a), Zakariya (a), and Yahya (a).

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I think according to tafsir Hassan Al-Askari (a). It's Imran(a), Zakariya (a), and Yahya (a).

What about Moses? Is Moses still alive or died naturally or killed?

 

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What about Moses? Is Moses still alive or died naturally or killed?

I don't know but seems he naturally died.

 

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The problem with the hadiths of Musa (a) death, they almost all have Yushua mentioned as successor. However, this contradicts Quran.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Well, I don't know the timings. But I've read Sulaiman (a) lived 712 years and started his rule at age of 12.

Well, there are traditions that Qaim's length of life will be the same as Noah:

Recorded in Bihar alanwar:
....Ibne Jubair that he said:
I heard the chief of worshipers, Ali Ibne Husain (a.s.) say, “There is a tradition from Nuh in the Qaim and that is the length of his life.”


Imam Sadiq said: “Allah, the Exalted, has consigned three qualities in the Qaim of
ours, which He had consigned to three of the apostles. He foreordained his
birth like the birth of Musa (a.s.); his disappearance like the disappearance of
Isa (a.s.); and his longevity like the longevity of Nuh (a.s.). Moreover, He
made the lifespan of His virtuous servant Khizr a proof of his lifespan.”

There are some more Hadithes that says Qaim lifespan is like Noah, which was 950.
Now if the Qaim was born in 255AH, by now He must be 1190 years old, which contradicts the 950 years.

On the other hand, in the Hadithes it is said, Mahdi will be born during End Time. It is also said He will live 7 years after His rise:

"It is mentioned on the authority of Umme Salma that the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) said: “The Mahdi is from my Ahle Bayt from the progeny of
Fatima. He will act among the people according to the conduct of the Prophet.
He will remain seven years and then he will die and Muslims will pray over
him.”

"...the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) is the report of Abu Dawood and Tirmidhi from Abu Saeed Khudri that he said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) say: “The Mahdi is from me. He has a broad forehead, a high nose that has a slight curve, and will fill the earth with equity and justice just as it will be replete with oppression and tyranny. He will rule for seven years.”

Abu Saeed Khudri says: The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) said: “A man will rise from my Ahle Bayt and act upon my conduct. Allah will send down for him blessings from the heavens. The earth will bring forth its bliss. Through him the earth will be beset by equity and justice, as it will be replete with oppression and tyranny.
He will rule over this Ummah for seven years and will disembark at Jerusalem.”

This Hadith has been repeated many times.


Then there are Hadithes that says, the Qaim lives 120 years, like Abraham, such as this one:

عن أبي عبد الله قال: القائم من ولدي يعمر عمر خليل الرحمن، يقوم في الناس وهو ابن ثلاثين سنة، ويلبث فيها أربعين سنة، يملا الارض قسطا وعدلا كما ملئت جورا وظلما

" القائم من ولدي، يعمر عمر الخليل عشرين ومائة سنة يدري به، ثم يغيب غيبة في الدهر، ويظهر في صورة شب موفق ابن اثنين وثلاثين سنة، حتى ترجع عنه طائفة من الناس، يملا الارض قسطا وعدلا كما ملئت ظلما وجورا "



Now, there are at least 4 Hadithes I know, that says, the Qaim rules 309 years, such as this:

859 - (يملك القائم ثلاث مائة سنة، ويزداد تسعا كما لبث أهل الكهف في كهفهم.​

The Qaim shall rule for 309 years, the same as People of Cave remained in their Cave.


I dont know how you would resolve these contradictions, But for me they are all clear. All of them match with established history and Scriptures of the Baha'i Faith.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So you can't provide the tablet in full, just an edited version of it by Shoghi Effendi in my opinion.

Looks self contradictory anyway as Baha'u'llah says, "the time is come" then appears to follow it with "the hour is soon approaching", so which is it - the time is come or its not come but soon approaching? And "soon" but we are still waiting for it 160 years after the fact? Sounds like the ambiguous language of a false prophet to me. Doesn't God know the specific time of chastisement?

Baha'u'llah said it was not meet and seemly to disclose the time.

“The world is in travail and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then and only then will the Divine Standard be unfurled and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”

There would be someone who could quote the Tablet, maybe even I could find it with research, but I see no point. Posting here has become pointless, most are just looking for points of negation and really have no interest in the given writings or the warnings.

There are many more aspects of this in this 1982 document. A Universal House of Justice Statement made available to delegates at the first special session of the UN General Assembly devoted to disarmament.

The Promise of Disarmament and Peace​

Regards Tony

 

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Salam

Some of the hadiths you quoted @InvestigateTruth such as the ones with longevity of his life, you are taking into exact amount while it just means there is a likeness in that it's very long and more normal then human life span.

As for the rule of Imam Mahdi (a) there is contradicting hadiths and there is one from Imam Ali (a), that shows it's totally unknown. There's also the concept of Rajaa in which Imams (a) come back to rule. There is some hadiths that show when Imam Mahdi (a) dies though, that the day of resurrection will happen. There's others that show the last person alive will be an Imam on earth, and he will be the last to die. That's to say, all these hadiths contradict.

 

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Salam

There is also some other conditions mention in Surah Yusuf in which cities were destroyed. The Messengers despaired at people believing while the people themselves thought they were told lies by the Messengers.

So God does not destroy a city while there is hope that they reform or believe.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Salam

Some of the hadiths you quoted @InvestigateTruth such as the ones with longevity of his life, you are taking into exact amount while it just means there is a likeness in that it's very long and more normal then human life span.

As for the rule of Imam Mahdi (a) there is contradicting hadiths and there is one from Imam Ali (a), that shows it's totally unknown. There's also the concept of Rajaa in which Imams (a) come back to rule. There is some hadiths that show when Imam Mahdi (a) dies though, that the day of resurrection will happen. There's others that show the last person alive will be an Imam on earth, and he will be the last to die. That's to say, all these hadiths contradict.

Salam,

How do we know, the longevity just means, longer than normal human lifetime, and not exactly the lifetime as it says?

It could be that, when the Qaim is born during End Time, then He lives 950 years.

Then there was a 309 years period.


Then there are Hadithes that says, Qaim lives 120 years.

This also does not match with the belief that Qaim was born in 255 AH

Then there are several Hadithes that says, Qaim disappearance last 6 years, or 6 months or 6 Days. None of these matches with the minor and major occultation periods as related to what is believed by most Shias.

But all of the above matches with Bahai History. There is not a single Hadith that does not match, exactly with Bahai History or Periods.

 

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Salam,

How do we know, the longevity just means, longer than normal human lifetime, and not exactly the lifetime as it says?

One of them mentions Khidr (a) who is still alive per hadiths. Plus there is a whole set of various ways to know Imam Mahdi (a) is alive and is son of Hasan Al-Askari (a) from both Quran and hadiths.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

One of them mentions Khidr (a) who is still alive per hadiths. Plus there is a whole set of various ways to know Imam Mahdi (a) is alive and is son of Hasan Al-Askari (a) from both Quran and hadiths.

Feel free to share how you know from Hadith and Quran that Imam Mahdi was born physically at the time of Imam Askari.
And also how would people benefit, when there is an Imam, but he is in occultation.

Also, share how you know Khizr is alive.

 

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Feel free to share how you know from Hadith and Quran that Imam Mahdi was born physically at the time of Imam Askari.
And also how would people benefit, when there is an Imam, but he is in occultation.

Also, share how you know Khizr is alive.

13:7 is a good start. Are you aware of the hadiths regarding it?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

13:7 is a good start. Are you aware of the hadiths regarding it?

Please do eleborate.

 

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Please do eleborate.

The Sunni ones have two kind of hadiths. "The guide is a man from Bani-Hashim" and the other is that Mohammad (s) said "I am the warner and then said to Ali, and you are the guide".

The Shia ones repeat it and many indicate there is never a time without a leader on earth. Even Du'a Nudba says before Ali (a) was appointed "in that he was the warner and for every people there is a guide" as a proof for Ghadeer declaration in the Quran.

The thing is it mentions "sign" regarding Mohammad (s). There is a whole series of responses to that, but it means miracle in real time, there was always a guide to provide that. But we know this is not true of guides in the open, as period between Isa (a) and Mohammad (s), there was not a public guide performing miracles. But this verse is a proof that miracles are always present, something we say in Du'a Nudba too, "O son of the miracles that are still present".

This verses indicates, there is never a time without a Guide on earth who can perform miracles to prove he is God's trustee.