Well, first, what all do you know, so that we may start there.
For example, are you aware of the four gospel books in the new testament?
Peace>>>AJ
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What about the 7-day creation story?
- Thread starter look3467
- Start date
Well, first, what all do you know, so that we may start there.
For example, are you aware of the four gospel books in the new testament?
Peace>>>AJ
Genesis 1:28
Further, God blessed them and God said to them: Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.
Humans were supposed to reside upon the earth forever and then at
Genesis 2:16-17 From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.
Humans were not going to die before they ate from the tree of knowledge. then it was a punishment for sin, if you sin you die.
John 3:16
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
It is said throughout the bible that the righteous will possess the earth.
the suffering and pain of the entire earth will be erased
Revelation 21:4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.
When a baby is born, is it destined to die?
What if the baby dies before say the age of 12 months, what then is the state if it's soul?
Would it be similiar to the state of Adam before knowledge was gained?
Then again, what if the baby grows to the age of accountability, learns the difference between good and evil, would it be similiar to eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?
Would you say that at that point the child will be like god as per next verse:
Note this verse:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
At that point the child begins its journey, struggle to know and understand what relationship it has with the God of the universe.
The child is it's own kingdom, ruling as it see fit as like a god, over its own kingdom.
Now, you very well know that there can be but only one God, right?
Well, the many gods, meaning us, can not be unless we are in Him first.
Therefore we die spiritually and are in need of His saving.
Now you have a picture of what the sin is that befalls every living soul, which led to death of the spirit, or expulsion from the garden.
But Jesus came as God's representative as Adam, the second Adam to remove, do away with that death clause, and gift us with God's righteouness enabling us to enter into His glory.
We are now new creatures, a "New Adam" a spiritual Adam that will never die.
Ref:
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
A "new man"
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
There you have it, Gods wonderful works in our behalf, my, aren't we blessed?
Peace>>>AJ
nawab
Active Member
what kind of funny answer is that one is god and trinity is three so god is one or three
1.God the Father creator of all there is.
Encompasses the fall of mankind due to the tree of knowledge.
2.God the Son the Savior of all there is.
Encompasses all the sin that was ever committed in order to redeem the world by forgiveness.
3.God the Holy Spirit the comforter while in the flesh.
The promised deliverer becoming alive in our hearts as He the Holy Spirit renews our souls from within.
All 3 are but the same God in 3 different applications.
I understand you belief in Islam which acknowledges Jesus as just a profited.
To that I would say to you that your belief in God is covered by the blood of Jesus, so in that you are safe to believe in Islam.
One Key important point though, is that your belief so generate love, compassion and love for thy neighbor.
In doing so, there is absolutely no sin committed, but rather are walking with God.
Peace>>>AJ
If you study the bible, you will see all 3 applications of God in creation.
nawab
Active Member
Dear Brother
Thanks for achknowledeging that, Beleive me brother Love is the word. We are told in the quran that the Christians are the nearest to you and they will understand your point because they are men devoted to learning. We are told this in the quran.
However, In Islam we do not beleive in the blood of Jesus or anyone. We do not have a Concept of Original Sin, Even the bible doesnt have. If you read Ezekiel 18:20 you will understand.
Jesus said that the only way to attain salvation is ,
Jesus PBUH said in Mathew 5:20 (KING JAMES): For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven
I want to ask how can Christians be better than the Jews by not keeping the commandments, please explain.
Just see that how can you compare a man with god when this answers the conflict
Job 25:4-6 (KING JAMES)
How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
Again, brother, i apologise if i hurt anybodies feelings
Thanks for achknowledeging that, Beleive me brother Love is the word. We are told in the quran that the Christians are the nearest to you and they will understand your point because they are men devoted to learning. We are told this in the quran.
However, In Islam we do not beleive in the blood of Jesus or anyone. We do not have a Concept of Original Sin, Even the bible doesnt have. If you read Ezekiel 18:20 you will understand.
Jesus said that the only way to attain salvation is ,
Jesus PBUH said in Mathew 5:20 (KING JAMES): For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven
I want to ask how can Christians be better than the Jews by not keeping the commandments, please explain.
Just see that how can you compare a man with god when this answers the conflict
Job 25:4-6 (KING JAMES)
How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
Again, brother, i apologise if i hurt anybodies feelings
Nawab,
Glad we are of one accord in the word love.
We do not have a Concept of Original Sin .
Let me explain this concept to you from a different angle.
Original sin is a term used to describe the condition that plagues all mankind. That condition is death!
How and why?
If we say and the bible and the Quran says that there can be but only one God, than all other gods are rejected or are as dead in relationship with the one true and only God.
If we look at Adam as the spirit of God, and Eve as the fleshly body, marry both together and we have a living soul.
Both have become as one.
Here is then the point at which death comes to Adam, when Adam acquires knowledge of good and evil, he becomes as like god.
That is not allowed but necessary in order for God to make mankind after or in the likeness of His image.
For here is the verse which states that: Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
And you know the story; Adam and Eve eat of that fruit, and are cast out, and are as dead spiritually.
This then is where the concept of original sin comes from, original in the sense that all mankind is plagued with the same condition.
To prove my point, a baby just born is totally innocent, knows nothing except to suck milk from the mothers breasts.
That baby by similitude is Adam before the fall. Perfect in all respects except that it has not eaten of the fruit of the tree yet.
But as it grows, knowledge of good and evil will subtly take the childs interest and it will partake of it.
Which when it does, it becomes as like god, to know good and evil.
Are you able to understand what I am saying?
God caused mankind to partake of the fruit of the tree ending in death of its spirit.
That condition befalls all mankind with no exceptions.
The only exception would be if God Himself would come down and become man.
Only than could God be righteous enough to be the one and only true God and live.
Such a man did exist!
Hear this: Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
That body is the Christ.
Now there can be many members of that body, but only one God.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
Only then in that body can we exist as gods, but not God.
Hope that helps.
Peace>>>AJ
Glad we are of one accord in the word love.
We do not have a Concept of Original Sin .
Let me explain this concept to you from a different angle.
Original sin is a term used to describe the condition that plagues all mankind. That condition is death!
How and why?
If we say and the bible and the Quran says that there can be but only one God, than all other gods are rejected or are as dead in relationship with the one true and only God.
If we look at Adam as the spirit of God, and Eve as the fleshly body, marry both together and we have a living soul.
Both have become as one.
Here is then the point at which death comes to Adam, when Adam acquires knowledge of good and evil, he becomes as like god.
That is not allowed but necessary in order for God to make mankind after or in the likeness of His image.
For here is the verse which states that: Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
And you know the story; Adam and Eve eat of that fruit, and are cast out, and are as dead spiritually.
This then is where the concept of original sin comes from, original in the sense that all mankind is plagued with the same condition.
To prove my point, a baby just born is totally innocent, knows nothing except to suck milk from the mothers breasts.
That baby by similitude is Adam before the fall. Perfect in all respects except that it has not eaten of the fruit of the tree yet.
But as it grows, knowledge of good and evil will subtly take the childs interest and it will partake of it.
Which when it does, it becomes as like god, to know good and evil.
Are you able to understand what I am saying?
God caused mankind to partake of the fruit of the tree ending in death of its spirit.
That condition befalls all mankind with no exceptions.
The only exception would be if God Himself would come down and become man.
Only than could God be righteous enough to be the one and only true God and live.
Such a man did exist!
Hear this: Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
That body is the Christ.
Now there can be many members of that body, but only one God.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
Only then in that body can we exist as gods, but not God.
Hope that helps.
Peace>>>AJ
nawab
Active Member
Dear Brother
Thanks for explaining, as for your question am i able to understanding i am not only learned in Islam but i have also studied the bible. So, i know basically what you are saying.
Now the question is that if Jesus is God or god, because they are different. I dont know if you know Greek or not but i beleive that you ought to know as a Christian, Greek is your basis of Christianity. All the 40,000 original Manuscripts were in Hebrew but now only available in Greek.
In the verse regarding the divinity of Christ in Gospel of John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1 In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God, - this God is translated from Hotheous
and the Word was God. - this God is translated from Tauntheos
see this is not honest translation.you have created a different meaning. Jesus ought to get a small letter g but the Christians gave him a capital G which created a different meaning. God means God almighty and god means any god which is used for godly person.
Like Moses was a god to the pharoh and the Devil is the god of this world. they oughty have a capital G but the Christian scholars gave him a small letter g, Why , again this is not honest translation.
Jesus Christ confirms this in the bible in John 10: 22-39
22 At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem;
23 it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.
24 The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me.
26 “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 “I and the Father are one.”
31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?”
33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’? 35 “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
37 “If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
39 Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.
This clearly denies Jesus claiming any sort of Divinity previously the Jews call them the children of God or gods, so whats the big deal if Jesus PBUH call himself son of God
Thanks for explaining, as for your question am i able to understanding i am not only learned in Islam but i have also studied the bible. So, i know basically what you are saying.
Now the question is that if Jesus is God or god, because they are different. I dont know if you know Greek or not but i beleive that you ought to know as a Christian, Greek is your basis of Christianity. All the 40,000 original Manuscripts were in Hebrew but now only available in Greek.
In the verse regarding the divinity of Christ in Gospel of John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1 In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God, - this God is translated from Hotheous
and the Word was God. - this God is translated from Tauntheos
see this is not honest translation.you have created a different meaning. Jesus ought to get a small letter g but the Christians gave him a capital G which created a different meaning. God means God almighty and god means any god which is used for godly person.
Like Moses was a god to the pharoh and the Devil is the god of this world. they oughty have a capital G but the Christian scholars gave him a small letter g, Why , again this is not honest translation.
Jesus Christ confirms this in the bible in John 10: 22-39
22 At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem;
23 it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.
24 The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me.
26 “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 “I and the Father are one.”
31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?”
33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’? 35 “If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
37 “If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38 but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
39 Therefore they were seeking again to seize Him, and He eluded their grasp.
This clearly denies Jesus claiming any sort of Divinity previously the Jews call them the children of God or gods, so whats the big deal if Jesus PBUH call himself son of God
nawab
Active Member
By the way to conclude it is not logical that God almighty comes down in Human form for what purposes. Suppose if i create a new TV do i have to become a TV to understand the functions, advantages and disadvantages of the TV, no, what i do i write a Instruction Manual. that happens to be all the testaments we have Old, New and Last.
By the way, God was not affraid of Adam and Eve that he had to cast them out in order to avoid a invasion in the Heavens. He did it as a punishment, Both Adam & Eve repented and were both forgiven. Why would the whole humanity be born in sin for a sin that my great, great, great many greats great Grand father commited. It is absolutly not logical. We cannot put any Americans today on trial just because thier forefathers massacred the Red Indians.
They real problem which i have observed is that The Modern Christians are looking at a Jewish book through greek glasses, the bible contains many eastern Mettaphisis that the Westerners have no expirence too, in addition the Pioneers of the message of Jesus PBUH was the Greek and the romans, they made all the world to look at a eatern mettaphisis Jewish book through Greek glasses, the Christians are taking things literaly in the bible. See in the middle east we have our own way of expressing our message. If you read a Jewish book like a Jew there wont be any problem.
During my presentation if i had been rational or had hurt anyones feelings i apologise
Nawab
By the way, God was not affraid of Adam and Eve that he had to cast them out in order to avoid a invasion in the Heavens. He did it as a punishment, Both Adam & Eve repented and were both forgiven. Why would the whole humanity be born in sin for a sin that my great, great, great many greats great Grand father commited. It is absolutly not logical. We cannot put any Americans today on trial just because thier forefathers massacred the Red Indians.
They real problem which i have observed is that The Modern Christians are looking at a Jewish book through greek glasses, the bible contains many eastern Mettaphisis that the Westerners have no expirence too, in addition the Pioneers of the message of Jesus PBUH was the Greek and the romans, they made all the world to look at a eatern mettaphisis Jewish book through Greek glasses, the Christians are taking things literaly in the bible. See in the middle east we have our own way of expressing our message. If you read a Jewish book like a Jew there wont be any problem.
During my presentation if i had been rational or had hurt anyones feelings i apologise
Nawab
I will refer you to the parable of the vineyard:
Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants (Prophets) to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants,(Prophets) and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants (More prophets) more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son (Jesus), saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
The prophets were led by the Spirit of God to speak on His behalf with the power of His spirit, like Moses and the prophets, but they were not God.
Moses died and many of the prophets were stoned or killed.
So, God sent His Son, meaning a Son with full power of the Godhead and He to was rejected and killed.
Let me reference this verse: Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Notice the words last days? This Son is the last of any prophet sent to the world to declare Gods desires.
Also the word last speaks of something that is about to come to an end.
What has come to an end is the requirement of the law as a condition for entering heaven.
Replaced by Grace; a condition of complete unconditional forgiveness to all mankind.
Who but God Himself could do that? Surely none of us could except we were God?
Now here is the place where God comes into the picture, and that point is the day Jesus was crucified.
You mentioned this verse: In the beginning was the Word, well Nawab, this is the beginning, the beginnings of Grace, the beginnings of the foundationof the new heavens and the new earth, not physical, but a spiritual foundation.
By Jesus were all things created, meaning that God Himself re-created the old into a new world, all in one day.
God paid the price in a body created for sacrifice to redeem the world back to Himself.
Mankind no longer has the death penalty looming over his soul, but life given as a free gift.
Jesus then is that body by which God Himself , meaning Gods own righteousness, was given to mankind so that by Him all souls will be saved.
When we die and see Him, we will see God and the name by which we are able to see God with is Jesus.
The Old Testament establishes who, how and what we are in comparison to God.
It details our creation, our fall, our judgment and our death.
It prophecies the coming of a Savior; a Savior to save the world, to end the death penalty and to set at liberty those held in prison (Spiritual prison) and leave off righteousness, His righteousness for us.
The new testament is the work book by where we learn how to use the gift of liberation for Gods praise and not for our own selfishness.
Would you give a six year old the full burden of adulthood to pay the rent, the taxes, the utilities, the phone etc.?
Or would you wait till he grows and matures in understanding of these things?
The tree of life was kept from Mankind until mankind was ready to receive knowledge of life in God, to a point in mankinds age of understanding.
The term cast out simply means that separation from God meant death, and death is what was forgiven, not disobedience as thought.
Now, there is consequences for personal and collective disobedience, but that consequence is required only while yet in the flesh.
Punishment termed that way to give simplicity to why we die. But everyone born today or in the future must face the same death penalty forgiveness given to us in Jesus by God with no discrimination.
The killing of Indians, the killing of witches, heretics and just plain killing in the name of religion is the body of Christ going through the growing pains.
When we are able to love one another regardless of who, what we are, than you will see that the body of Christ has matured to that of the stature of Christ, or say who He represented, God.
You and I can converse, discuss without offending because we both are spiritual mature individuals and know and understand the love of God.
Good point and I agree with you on that. But if we take the bible as a whole, and seek the message that is the theme of the whole book, you will find not the things that mankind has done, but the things that God has done.
It is not what mankind has done for God, but what God has done for mankind.
That is the message if we care to seek it out.
My friend, you wont hurt my feelings at all, for I understand the message of God for mankind.
Peace>>>AJ
nawab
Active Member
Peace, Mercy and Blessings of God Almighty be on all of you
1) regarding Jesus that he was send as a savior and as a last prophet as you mentioned as previously Prophets were killed, like John the Baptist whom we call Yahya PBUH, so Jesus was send as a final solution here I agree with you because this is what the Bible says as well, that I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. However, Jesus was the last Prophet send to the Children of Israel and he was limited to them. Previously they were chosen by God al Mighty as the chosen people but they disobeyed. They didnt follow the message of Jesus so they were replaced.
Jesus as a prophet, it is understood even you mentioned that he is a prophet. Now Jesus cannot be a Prophet, God, son of God at the same time. If Jesus claimed divinity or had to be worshiped. He must have said worship me. which he didnt in the bible. Any version, King James, RSV, New Internation, New World. He didnt.
Moreover, we can listen to Jesus, his Humility.
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God
2) You say that Mankind, no longer has the death penality which i disagree that there are sins today and due time, the sins are increasing. Basic Christian Doctrine only teaches us John 3:16 and nothing else during my encounters with Christian Missionaries, they dont teach us anything beside salvation they dont teach us about any hygiene, Diet, Social Morality, Evils of society, establishing prayers and fast. nothing of these kinds. I will tell you why sins are increasing because People are beleiving that they are saved and now no matter what they do as long as they beleive in John 3:16 they are saved a good example is John Abruzzi in Prison break 1 & 2 and Hittler who was a roman Catholic but yet a Christian. According to me this is not the message my master Jesus PBUH conveyed. Yet today sins are increasing.
please tell me what will happen to Christians who beleive in the blood of Lord Jesus as a savior
but have commited sins like slavery, murder, rape etc.
3) Your interpretation was what the chruch teaches and not what it really means according to the bible. Moreover, the gospels, We beleive in the gospel of Jesus and not Mark, Mathew, John and Luke. See i think you should also agree that our salvation do not depend on peoples intrepretations.
4) You talked about a six year old giving the burden, suppose if my son six year old he is convinced by his friend that he wants to work and be independent, and he proves to me that he can work and he found work should i curse him that his entire sons would be born in sin. Adam was deceived by Satan and he repented and was forgived. This story only proved one thing that even prophets can make mistake but they always repented and are always forgived. The tree was not kept from mankind but was kept away from Adam, Mankind didnt exsist back then. God has created Adam and his decendants to be the vice regent of God on earth. Death meant separation, for Adam couldnt That meant the same for Jesus when Jesus Died on the cross. However, Human beings are the greatest creation ever created by God, better then Angels,
So suppose Adam was not forgiven, as you said, I would call my God a unjust God. Why am i born in sin for a crime i have not commited. My Father murdered someone and the Judge sentances me to be Hanged, Truely its an unfair world
5) You said that Jesus saves people without discrimination but it is Jesus who said
Mathew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Racism is justified in the bible, so i dont blame the European invaders for invading and for slavery. Seriously. nor i blame any Christians for Adultry, Incest, Homosexuality because it is told in the bible without any punishment and many holy men commited these acts without repent and any punishment. We can only love one another until we come to a common platform, after 2000 years of preaching this is what it has come up with. Look at the western nations like Jesus said every good tree will bear good fruit, every evil tree will bear evil fruit. From the truth ye shall judge them. I can give a 5 hour lecture just on Racism in the bible.
My whole point was to tell you that we should beleive in, pray to, ask forgiviness from, seek aid, repent to the One true God almighty rather then any preist, Mullah, Imam, Jesus PBUH, Pope HH, Muhammad PBUH, these are just signs of his almighty grace. Admire the Painter not the painting my friend.
The reason i why i said to be excused if i had made any comments which seem offensive was. 1st. the speculaters might have a negitive impression, you and I can be liberal as we have exchanged serveral posts. I understand that you are quite learned as well and i know what i am saying i am a student of comparitive religion and i am in Dawah field that is the Islamic version of Misssionary services. 2nd it is a tradition of our Prophet Muhammad PBUH that even when you are socializing with your closest circle of friends, before you leave ask them for forgiveness as well as we never know when we have unintensionally offended someone.
1) regarding Jesus that he was send as a savior and as a last prophet as you mentioned as previously Prophets were killed, like John the Baptist whom we call Yahya PBUH, so Jesus was send as a final solution here I agree with you because this is what the Bible says as well, that I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. However, Jesus was the last Prophet send to the Children of Israel and he was limited to them. Previously they were chosen by God al Mighty as the chosen people but they disobeyed. They didnt follow the message of Jesus so they were replaced.
Jesus as a prophet, it is understood even you mentioned that he is a prophet. Now Jesus cannot be a Prophet, God, son of God at the same time. If Jesus claimed divinity or had to be worshiped. He must have said worship me. which he didnt in the bible. Any version, King James, RSV, New Internation, New World. He didnt.
Moreover, we can listen to Jesus, his Humility.
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God
2) You say that Mankind, no longer has the death penality which i disagree that there are sins today and due time, the sins are increasing. Basic Christian Doctrine only teaches us John 3:16 and nothing else during my encounters with Christian Missionaries, they dont teach us anything beside salvation they dont teach us about any hygiene, Diet, Social Morality, Evils of society, establishing prayers and fast. nothing of these kinds. I will tell you why sins are increasing because People are beleiving that they are saved and now no matter what they do as long as they beleive in John 3:16 they are saved a good example is John Abruzzi in Prison break 1 & 2 and Hittler who was a roman Catholic but yet a Christian. According to me this is not the message my master Jesus PBUH conveyed. Yet today sins are increasing.
please tell me what will happen to Christians who beleive in the blood of Lord Jesus as a savior
but have commited sins like slavery, murder, rape etc.
3) Your interpretation was what the chruch teaches and not what it really means according to the bible. Moreover, the gospels, We beleive in the gospel of Jesus and not Mark, Mathew, John and Luke. See i think you should also agree that our salvation do not depend on peoples intrepretations.
4) You talked about a six year old giving the burden, suppose if my son six year old he is convinced by his friend that he wants to work and be independent, and he proves to me that he can work and he found work should i curse him that his entire sons would be born in sin. Adam was deceived by Satan and he repented and was forgived. This story only proved one thing that even prophets can make mistake but they always repented and are always forgived. The tree was not kept from mankind but was kept away from Adam, Mankind didnt exsist back then. God has created Adam and his decendants to be the vice regent of God on earth. Death meant separation, for Adam couldnt That meant the same for Jesus when Jesus Died on the cross. However, Human beings are the greatest creation ever created by God, better then Angels,
So suppose Adam was not forgiven, as you said, I would call my God a unjust God. Why am i born in sin for a crime i have not commited. My Father murdered someone and the Judge sentances me to be Hanged, Truely its an unfair world
5) You said that Jesus saves people without discrimination but it is Jesus who said
Mathew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Racism is justified in the bible, so i dont blame the European invaders for invading and for slavery. Seriously. nor i blame any Christians for Adultry, Incest, Homosexuality because it is told in the bible without any punishment and many holy men commited these acts without repent and any punishment. We can only love one another until we come to a common platform, after 2000 years of preaching this is what it has come up with. Look at the western nations like Jesus said every good tree will bear good fruit, every evil tree will bear evil fruit. From the truth ye shall judge them. I can give a 5 hour lecture just on Racism in the bible.
My whole point was to tell you that we should beleive in, pray to, ask forgiviness from, seek aid, repent to the One true God almighty rather then any preist, Mullah, Imam, Jesus PBUH, Pope HH, Muhammad PBUH, these are just signs of his almighty grace. Admire the Painter not the painting my friend.
The reason i why i said to be excused if i had made any comments which seem offensive was. 1st. the speculaters might have a negitive impression, you and I can be liberal as we have exchanged serveral posts. I understand that you are quite learned as well and i know what i am saying i am a student of comparitive religion and i am in Dawah field that is the Islamic version of Misssionary services. 2nd it is a tradition of our Prophet Muhammad PBUH that even when you are socializing with your closest circle of friends, before you leave ask them for forgiveness as well as we never know when we have unintensionally offended someone.
In that last sentence in red, you will find the key to understanding.
God chose a people to introduce Himself to the world with.
They were as one might say; “the first born” set to inherit the kingdom of their God.
But in order for God to take in the rest of the world’s people, His chosen ones must reject Him so that He may go to be received by the rest of the world.
Continued on next post
Since the Jewish High Priests had the authority to offer up animal sacrifices for the people, they were instrumental in offering Jesus, the sacrificial lamb of the world up to God.
Jesus told them that they must go through Him to get to the Father and to them that was blasphemy for making Himself equal to God.
What that did was the same picture or situation of Esau and Jacob. Where Esau (=Jewish nation) was the first born, and Jacob (=Jesus) stole their birthright from the Father.
They didn’t follow the message of Jesus so they were replaced. And that is correct, their birthright was stolen by Jesus.
As a Prophet?
Joh 9:17 They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.
Joh 6:14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
Joh 4:44 For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honour in his own country.
As God? Mar 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Mar 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
As the Son of God?
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
That is correct; Jesus did not claim divinity, for you recall He washed the Apostles feet.
Since only God could forgive sins, and give life to a dead world, than Jesus had in Him the full Godhead bodily.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
To claimthat He was God and expect homage, would be a human attribute, but He had the Spirit of God in Him.
God took care of the sin that kept us from entering heaven by becoming sin Himself in the form of a human body Jesus, and having it sacrificed, done away with. Killed off.
God saves the soul; mankind is accountable for its own behavior.
What you sow, shall you reap.
Those who fall prey to the fleshly desires must face the consequences, whether they believe or not.
The Gospels show the four faces of Jesus.
Matthew as Kingship
Mark as servant
Luke as man
John as divinity
Continued on the next post.
Continued from the previous post.
And your right, salvation does not depend on peoples interpretations, but salvation is of God, and none of our own making.
But when he reaches the age of understanding of the concept of sin, then, separation sets in as a curse.
And that curse is what Jesus came to remove so that we might be free to worship God in heart.
All from Adam to Christ were held in prison between heaven and earth, for there was no entrance available to them in heaven.
God had to open the door by sacrificing His son to own the tree of knowledge of good and evil and nail it to the cross, once and for all.
You have to understand that the Jewish High priests, the Pharmacies and the Sadducees could not see Jesus as Gods Son, therefore, Jesus spoke against them in good reason, for they were as like dogs, and His words went un heard, and they trample over Jesus on the way to the hill of Calvary and rent Him.
Please understand that all that was prophesied and planned by God to happen, therefore had to be said in fulfillment of that plan all prior to the cross.
My friend, God is no respecter of persons; therefore He is not a racist!
What you are stating is that mankind is racist in their evil behavior, but not God.
God is all good and no evil can be found in Him.
Mankind perceptions of Gods character is lacking in understanding.
The painter is God and He has painted a beautiful picture of all His wondrous works.
His greatest work is Jesus.
For the bible says: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Peace>>>AJ
And your right, salvation does not depend on peoples interpretations, but salvation is of God, and none of our own making.
A young 6 year old has no concept of what sin is, only what they tell him it might be, therefore he is innocent of sin.
But when he reaches the age of understanding of the concept of sin, then, separation sets in as a curse.
And that curse is what Jesus came to remove so that we might be free to worship God in heart.
All from Adam to Christ were held in prison between heaven and earth, for there was no entrance available to them in heaven.
God had to open the door by sacrificing His son to own the tree of knowledge of good and evil and nail it to the cross, once and for all.
You have to understand that the Jewish High priests, the Pharmacies and the Sadducees could not see Jesus as Gods Son, therefore, Jesus spoke against them in good reason, for they were as like dogs, and His words went un heard, and they trample over Jesus on the way to the hill of Calvary and rent Him.
Please understand that all that was prophesied and planned by God to happen, therefore had to be said in fulfillment of that plan all prior to the cross.
b
My friend, God is no respecter of persons; therefore He is not a racist!
What you are stating is that mankind is racist in their evil behavior, but not God.
God is all good and no evil can be found in Him.
Mankind perceptions of Gods character is lacking in understanding.
I will agree with you all except for Jesus, He is the only name under heaven given amongst men for salvation.
The painter is God and He has painted a beautiful picture of all His wondrous works.
His greatest work is Jesus.
For the bible says: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
That is fine and very respectful as it ought to be.
Peace>>>AJ
nawab
Active Member
Peace, mercy and blessings of God almighty
Dear Brother
1st) you claim that God needed the Jews to reject him, so that the world can be saved. I think the Jews were sacrificed rather then Jesus. What i meant was the authority of Men was transfered from one tribe to the other tribe. Like the Egyptians dominated the Tribe of Israel, so after the prayings of Israelis, God answered and brought this tribe to dominate others. However, Moses told them a prophet (Jesus) would come and they ought to take oath with him, which they didnt. so, the tribe of Israel was casted out and it went to the nearest next tribe the tribe of Ishmael. The Arabs are from the tribe of Israel. I am sure you know this. Abrahim has two sons Ishmael and Isaac.
the Jews/tribe of israel was from Jacob son of Isaac (from 12 sons of jacob e.g. Judah, Levi, Arabs were from the Tribe of Ishmael. so the dominated tribe were the Arabs, History confirms this.
By comparing Jesus as a sacrifice Lamb, I still think God is Unjust and unfair why crucify a poor man who has done nothing wrong, according to the bible any person who dies on the cross, is cursed and i refuse to beleive that my master Jesus would be cursed. and Almighty God whom i submit my will to, i cant beleive he would have done such an unjust act by sending an innocent man to die on the cross.
Moreover, if Jacob did such an act that he stole the birth right, He sinned and we are not to follow such people who sinned but we avoid them, so Jacob is an example in 3 religions i dont beleive he sinned, God does not send sinful prophet to us for guidiance, he send prophets to led us away from sin not to set examples of sin.
Brother, Jesus performed miracles in also mentioned in the Quran, He healed the Blind, Sick, Leperds and he also raised people alive with the authority of God, Miracles is not a criteria to justify a man authencity as even false Christ can perform miracles so whats great if Jesus performed. Jesus himself said in Mathew 12: 38 An audultrous wicked generation seekth after a sign.
Jesus said in Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist (Yahyah AS) : notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he (John the batist he performed no miracle yet he is being honored by Jesus)
At every prophets time, by following the Prophets commandments the Sins can be forgived by God just as the verse goes where Jesus says I am the way the truth and the light during every prophets times he was the way the truth and the light, In Moses time he was, Jesus time he was, Muhammads time he was.
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Virgin in Hebrew is Baitullah, the word in that text where it is translated a virgin shall conceive
this translation is wrong, ask any hebrew expert in the original text the word is young lady not virgin. Again this is not honest translation. Moreover, not even one place Jesus is called Immanuel.
If Jesus was GOd, when the person came to call him Good Master and he reply why Thou callest me good, If Jesus was God, He should accept because God is good. This is hipocrasy. this kind of reaction is very humanly i will call you my dear good brother and in humility you might i am not that good the real good is God, I have alot of Short commings. This was the kind of eastern Mettaphis i was talking about before, Eastern Expressions.
Having a spirit of God, is something different again we all have spirit of God, The formula of our Soul is Spirit of God.
Even today there are sins that will not allow us to enter Heaven, like Murder etc.
Jesus said Mathew 5:20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven
Back to the Gospels, of John, Mathew, Mark and Luke, We need the real word of God and not the 4 faces of Jesus. in Lukes gospel you can read that he confesses that he wrote the Gospel because he felt he is too clever and not tickled by the Holy spirit. I guess you check up here
Brother, again you claim that Jesus died so that we can go to Heaven, it makes mine and your life worthless without purpose, God does not really want to us a favor but he wants to see How faithful we are and how much obedience we are. He could have not created mankind and just sacrifice Jesus and so that all of us would be in Heaven now. Its an opinion beleive me i am not making a mockery of anyone God is bearing me witness.
Regarding Racism, i didnt mean that God is racist but rather the people who intrepretated the message this is what they want to beleive and others to beleive. under the command of Moses people were massacred in palestines inncocent people, David cut the foreskin of Philistines, Samson killed many Philistines, Shanger killed many Philistines in the bible, Samson went to Gaza and saw a harlot and he had sex with her, no punishment, no repentence and this thing is still being followed till today the special hatred of God almighty in the bible towards the Philistines.
I think the authors of the bible they hated the Palestinians.
If Jesus is the most beautiful painting, but yet a painting we still have to admire and praise the one creater who painted Jesus. for him to create Millions of Jesus is just like that,
Yet again, I express my points with the limited knowledge i have gathered, if i am wrong i am always open for corrections. May God Al mighty give you Guidiance.
i will end with a verse from the Quran 5:85 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, ’We are Christians.
Dear Brother
1st) you claim that God needed the Jews to reject him, so that the world can be saved. I think the Jews were sacrificed rather then Jesus. What i meant was the authority of Men was transfered from one tribe to the other tribe. Like the Egyptians dominated the Tribe of Israel, so after the prayings of Israelis, God answered and brought this tribe to dominate others. However, Moses told them a prophet (Jesus) would come and they ought to take oath with him, which they didnt. so, the tribe of Israel was casted out and it went to the nearest next tribe the tribe of Ishmael. The Arabs are from the tribe of Israel. I am sure you know this. Abrahim has two sons Ishmael and Isaac.
the Jews/tribe of israel was from Jacob son of Isaac (from 12 sons of jacob e.g. Judah, Levi, Arabs were from the Tribe of Ishmael. so the dominated tribe were the Arabs, History confirms this.
By comparing Jesus as a sacrifice Lamb, I still think God is Unjust and unfair why crucify a poor man who has done nothing wrong, according to the bible any person who dies on the cross, is cursed and i refuse to beleive that my master Jesus would be cursed. and Almighty God whom i submit my will to, i cant beleive he would have done such an unjust act by sending an innocent man to die on the cross.
Moreover, if Jacob did such an act that he stole the birth right, He sinned and we are not to follow such people who sinned but we avoid them, so Jacob is an example in 3 religions i dont beleive he sinned, God does not send sinful prophet to us for guidiance, he send prophets to led us away from sin not to set examples of sin.
Brother, Jesus performed miracles in also mentioned in the Quran, He healed the Blind, Sick, Leperds and he also raised people alive with the authority of God, Miracles is not a criteria to justify a man authencity as even false Christ can perform miracles so whats great if Jesus performed. Jesus himself said in Mathew 12: 38 An audultrous wicked generation seekth after a sign.
Jesus said in Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist (Yahyah AS) : notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he (John the batist he performed no miracle yet he is being honored by Jesus)
At every prophets time, by following the Prophets commandments the Sins can be forgived by God just as the verse goes where Jesus says I am the way the truth and the light during every prophets times he was the way the truth and the light, In Moses time he was, Jesus time he was, Muhammads time he was.
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Virgin in Hebrew is Baitullah, the word in that text where it is translated a virgin shall conceive
this translation is wrong, ask any hebrew expert in the original text the word is young lady not virgin. Again this is not honest translation. Moreover, not even one place Jesus is called Immanuel.
If Jesus was GOd, when the person came to call him Good Master and he reply why Thou callest me good, If Jesus was God, He should accept because God is good. This is hipocrasy. this kind of reaction is very humanly i will call you my dear good brother and in humility you might i am not that good the real good is God, I have alot of Short commings. This was the kind of eastern Mettaphis i was talking about before, Eastern Expressions.
Having a spirit of God, is something different again we all have spirit of God, The formula of our Soul is Spirit of God.
Even today there are sins that will not allow us to enter Heaven, like Murder etc.
Jesus said Mathew 5:20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven
Back to the Gospels, of John, Mathew, Mark and Luke, We need the real word of God and not the 4 faces of Jesus. in Lukes gospel you can read that he confesses that he wrote the Gospel because he felt he is too clever and not tickled by the Holy spirit. I guess you check up here
Brother, again you claim that Jesus died so that we can go to Heaven, it makes mine and your life worthless without purpose, God does not really want to us a favor but he wants to see How faithful we are and how much obedience we are. He could have not created mankind and just sacrifice Jesus and so that all of us would be in Heaven now. Its an opinion beleive me i am not making a mockery of anyone God is bearing me witness.
Regarding Racism, i didnt mean that God is racist but rather the people who intrepretated the message this is what they want to beleive and others to beleive. under the command of Moses people were massacred in palestines inncocent people, David cut the foreskin of Philistines, Samson killed many Philistines, Shanger killed many Philistines in the bible, Samson went to Gaza and saw a harlot and he had sex with her, no punishment, no repentence and this thing is still being followed till today the special hatred of God almighty in the bible towards the Philistines.
I think the authors of the bible they hated the Palestinians.
If Jesus is the most beautiful painting, but yet a painting we still have to admire and praise the one creater who painted Jesus. for him to create Millions of Jesus is just like that,
Yet again, I express my points with the limited knowledge i have gathered, if i am wrong i am always open for corrections. May God Al mighty give you Guidiance.
i will end with a verse from the Quran 5:85 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, ’We are Christians.
Manipulated
Pilgrim
. Can you please simplify this verse,I find it difficult to grasp.
nawab
Active Member
It basiclly means, that the closet to the muslims in faith are thouse you call themselves Christians, Jews & Pagans have always been against us. We can see today and even during the time of our Prophet. The Pagens of Mecca were the strongest enemy of the Muslims and when Our Prophet migrated to Medina the strongest enemies were the Jews. When the Muslims were Persectuted the Prophet ordered the Mulsims to go to Absyinnia (Modern Ethopia) which at that time was a Christian Kingdon. When the Muslims arrive at his court. The Christians understood our perspective of religion.
JOSHUA 3:4 Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore.
Israels house is yet desolate, has not yet made it to the promised land for the it says: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore.
The space is 2,000 cubits, or 2 thousand years till they see Jesus as the Ark.
They would be on deaths side of the Jordan when they would see Jesus as the ark and the priests bearing him up.
They would recognize him as the ark the third day. From this event 29 ad they stay back 2000 cubits, or 2000 years. Till 2029 ad: is when, Israel will come to Christ.
When that happens my friend, you will see a friend in Isreal.
EZEKIEL 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live:
In other words, at that time, when Israel will see Jesus for who He is, 2029, will Israel work to whithersoever the rivers (Israel) shall come, shall live:
Meaning, peace.
Peace>>>AJ
Israels house is yet desolate, has not yet made it to the promised land for the it says: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore.
The space is 2,000 cubits, or 2 thousand years till they see Jesus as the Ark.
They would be on deaths side of the Jordan when they would see Jesus as the ark and the priests bearing him up.
They would recognize him as the ark the third day. From this event 29 ad they stay back 2000 cubits, or 2000 years. Till 2029 ad: is when, Israel will come to Christ.
When that happens my friend, you will see a friend in Isreal.
EZEKIEL 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live:
In other words, at that time, when Israel will see Jesus for who He is, 2029, will Israel work to whithersoever the rivers (Israel) shall come, shall live:
Meaning, peace.
Peace>>>AJ
nawab
Active Member
Brother, i beleive that Jesus PBUH will come, What our basic doctrine teaches us is that, Jesus was the only prophet who was raised up alive because he is the only prophet who was associated with divinity and being the son of God, so he will be sent back to remove this misconception.
However, I dont consider myself to be a friend of Jesus, How can i escalate myself to his level, He is a respect personality and among thouse of company closest to God, what the Christians might say sitting on the right hand of God, but we say that it is not geographically on the right hand. It is an eastern way for saying this is my right hand man, he could on sitting on the left. But in terms of importance this is my Man, my right hand man ( Eastern Mettaphsis, Eastern way of expression)
according to Islamic traditions, Jesus will cry OH Allah, bear me witness i never claimed divinity, i never said i was your son.
it is even mentioned in the Christian scriptures Matthew 7: 22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? then will I profess unto them, depart from me, I never knew you, ye men of iniquity(sinful)
I am not sure who will Jesus be saying that to, but i assume that Christians are the only ones who Prophised in the name of Jesus, do Miracles (wonderful works) in the name of Jesus, cast out devils (excorsicm) in the name of Jesus. Any good work in the name of Jesus.
All the good work and at the end Jesus will say Depart from him, Jesus never knew them, Men of iniquity (sin). either Jesus is wrong or the Christians are, Its Logical isnt it.
If i am wrong, again i am open for corrections, I apologise again if I hurt anyone but this is the knowledge i have gathered from the Bible and Christian Friends.
However, I dont consider myself to be a friend of Jesus, How can i escalate myself to his level, He is a respect personality and among thouse of company closest to God, what the Christians might say sitting on the right hand of God, but we say that it is not geographically on the right hand. It is an eastern way for saying this is my right hand man, he could on sitting on the left. But in terms of importance this is my Man, my right hand man ( Eastern Mettaphsis, Eastern way of expression)
according to Islamic traditions, Jesus will cry OH Allah, bear me witness i never claimed divinity, i never said i was your son.
it is even mentioned in the Christian scriptures Matthew 7: 22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? then will I profess unto them, depart from me, I never knew you, ye men of iniquity(sinful)
I am not sure who will Jesus be saying that to, but i assume that Christians are the only ones who Prophised in the name of Jesus, do Miracles (wonderful works) in the name of Jesus, cast out devils (excorsicm) in the name of Jesus. Any good work in the name of Jesus.
All the good work and at the end Jesus will say Depart from him, Jesus never knew them, Men of iniquity (sin). either Jesus is wrong or the Christians are, Its Logical isnt it.
If i am wrong, again i am open for corrections, I apologise again if I hurt anyone but this is the knowledge i have gathered from the Bible and Christian Friends.
Please understand that I am not trying to change your views, but am trying to state my views concerning the works of God in mankinds favor.
The Jews are not the enemies of Jesus. ( meaning those Jews who have no faith in the divinity of Jesus)
They were chosen by the Father to perform for Him to the letter of the law.
That is why they couldn't recognize Jesus as the Son of God because Jesus told them that they could not get to the Father but by Him.
Instructions to the Jewish nation was this:
Mat 26:65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.
Exo 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
You can see the Devine plan of God causing His chosen priests to offer up the ltimate sacriffice, that body that God hath prepared for Jesus.
Jesus comes again but in Spirit, but into the heart where He resides in temples of men.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Therfore, if Jesus comes, He comes in the form of Spirit which when we allow Him, He dwells in us as His temple.
Peace>>>AJ