What Age Is Acceptable To Identify As The Opposite Sex?

[mikkel_the_dane]

I’m explaining why I prefer one method over the other; of course the choice is subjective; I never said it wasn’t.

In this case, objectivity is not necessary.

But when I am involved in the conversation, the only way it can sound reasonable is if I can ask for clarification and get answers. Getting information from a link does not allow for this type of clarification.

So you admit that is for both cases of rejecting or accepting gender subjective, what is consindered reasonable?

 

[Argentbear]

No; you misunderstood me. On post #527 when you answered a question, all I did was ask for clarification; and you responded by saying you aren't gonna play word games

I understood and I am not going to play your word games

 

[Kfox]

So you admit that is for both cases of rejecting or accepting gender subjective, what is consindered reasonable?

As I said before, I personally don't think it is a good idea, I think going with something objective like biology is much better. However I realize there are those who do consider it reasonable.

 

[Kfox]

I understood and I am not going to play your word games

To say you aren't gonna play word games is not an answer, it's a response.

 

[icehorse]

That just sounds like conspiracy nonsense. Saying "I'm not a werewolf" is exactly what the werewolf would say, sort of thinking.

The American Society of Plastic Surgeons (11,000 members), just came out more or less agreeing with the Cass Report, concluding that the evidence for the long term efficacy of chest and genital surgical interventions.. is of low quality / low certainty.

Yup, those plastic surgeons are always falling for conspiracy nonsense.

A Consensus No Longer

The American Society of Plastic Surgeons becomes the first major medical association to challenge the consensus of medical groups over “gender-affirming care” for minors.

www.city-journal.org

 

[SkepticThinker]

You seem to be confirming the previous point I made; that gender should be discarded; not used in reference to someone, their biology should be used instead. When you divorce gender from biology, gender becomes meaningless because it means different things to different people so it would be foolish to use it to describe someone unless you know that person very well. Biology is empirical, biology is science, biology is real; gender (as redefined by those like you) is none of those things. That's why when I address someone, I address them according to their biology rather than their gender.

Not unless you're inspecting everyone's genitals upon meeting them, you're not.

Otherwise, you're doing what the rest of us do and upon meeting someone, addressing them as they've asked to be addressed (unless you're an absolute jerk, I guess). You don't really know for sure what Sally's biology is upon meeting her. People don't hand each other their complete genetic workups upon meeting people.

 

[Argentbear]

The American Society of Plastic Surgeons (11,000 members), just came out more or less agreeing with the Cass Report, concluding that the evidence for the long term efficacy of chest and genital surgical interventions.. is of low quality / low certainty.

Yup, those plastic surgeons are always falling for conspiracy nonsense.

A Consensus No Longer

The American Society of Plastic Surgeons becomes the first major medical association to challenge the consensus of medical groups over “gender-affirming care” for minors.

www.city-journal.org

That is almost impressive...until you actually read the link

Written by Leor Sapir, an anti trans activist with a long history of attacking gender affirming research and organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics for saying that trans youth need to be "treated as unique individuals and any care they receive needs to be tailored to that child individually"

Leaving aside the numerous false claims of the article (and there are a LOT) It gets really interesting: "In July, the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, a major medical association representing 11,000 members and over 90 percent of the field in the U.S. and Canada, told me that it “has not endorsed any organization’s practice recommendations for the treatment of adolescents with gender dysphoria.”

Who exactly told Sapir?

No names are ever mentioned....what a shock

Meanwhile no press release or statement from The American Society of Plastic Surgeons themselves

The article goes on to say "ASPS acknowledged that there is “considerable uncertainty as to the long-term efficacy for the use of chest and genital surgical interventions” and that “the existing evidence base is viewed as low quality/low certainty.” " Except this quote isn't from the American Society of Plastic Surgeons it is from "Doctor's Protecting Children" an organization that seems to exist only as a single website that is maintained by the Alliance Defending Freedom and the The American College of Pediatricians two recognized hate groups.

 

[icehorse]

That is almost impressive...until you actually read the link

Written by Leor Sapir, an anti trans activist with a long history of attacking gender affirming research and organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics for saying that trans youth need to be "treated as unique individuals and any care they receive needs to be tailored to that child individually"

Leaving aside the numerous false claims of the article (and there are a LOT) It gets really interesting: "In July, the American Society of Plastic Surgeons, a major medical association representing 11,000 members and over 90 percent of the field in the U.S. and Canada, told me that it “has not endorsed any organization’s practice recommendations for the treatment of adolescents with gender dysphoria.”

Who exactly told Sapir?

No names are ever mentioned....what a shock

Meanwhile no press release or statement from The American Society of Plastic Surgeons themselves

The article goes on to say "ASPS acknowledged that there is “considerable uncertainty as to the long-term efficacy for the use of chest and genital surgical interventions” and that “the existing evidence base is viewed as low quality/low certainty.” " Except this quote isn't from the American Society of Plastic Surgeons it is from "Doctor's Protecting Children" an organization that seems to exist only as a single website that is maintained by the Alliance Defending Freedom and the The American College of Pediatricians two recognized hate groups.

still struggling with understanding falsifiable claims ?

 

[SkepticThinker]

If by imaginary you mean; based strictly on your thoughts......... I would say how everybody feels about themselves is imaginary.

Our thoughts and feelings are a large part of how we identify and think about ourselves.

I mean, are you suggesting that something like clinical depression is imaginary, because it's based on one's thoughts and feelings?
Anxiety disorder? What else?

 

[Kfox]

Not unless you're inspecting everyone's genitals upon meeting them, you're not.

Yes I am; if I don't know the person, and they look like a biological female, I address them as female. If they tell me they are male, I assume I've made a mistake and address them as male. If they tell me they are female but identify as a male, and accuse me of mis-gendering them, I tell them I was not referring to their Gender but their biology.

Otherwise, you're doing what the rest of us do and upon meeting someone, addressing them as they've asked to be addressed

No; most people address according to how you look; which is what I do.

 

[Kfox]

Our thoughts and feelings are a large part of how we identify and think about ourselves.

I mean, are you suggesting that something like clinical depression is imaginary, because it's based on one's thoughts and feelings?
Anxiety disorder? What else?

These things don't have an actual existence by themselves; they only exist within the context of human thought.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes I am; if I don't know the person, and they look like a biological female, I address them as female. If they tell me they are male, I assume I've made a mistake and address them as male.

But you realize your thoughts on the matter could be mistaken and that the person you're talking to probably knows better who they are than you do, right?

If they tell me they are female but identify as a male, and accuse me of mis-gendering them, I tell them I was not referring to their Gender but their biology.

But that's not what you're doing, since you've not actually inspected their complete biological makeup. You're judging them based on their outward appearance and then just assuming their biological makeup from there based on your own thoughts and feelings and perceptions of how they look to you.

Funny how your thoughts and feelings on the matter seem to trump the thoughts and feelings of the actual human being who is being identified.
Funny thing, that.

So, it's just as I said.

No; most people address according to how you look; which is what I do.

I address people according to how they've asked me to address them.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

These things don't have an actual existence by themselves; they only exist within the context of human thought.

The word actual is an human cognitive abstract and doesn't exist outside human thought. The same with the word existence.
Neither of these are real, objective and empirical. In effect by your rule you are just imagining this.

What you fail to understand it that your rule that only that outside human thought is real, is not real as a rule, because it only exists in your thought.
Your whole system of reasoning rests on a self-refering contradiction.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The American Society of Plastic Surgeons (11,000 members), just came out more or less agreeing with the Cass Report, concluding that the evidence for the long term efficacy of chest and genital surgical interventions.. is of low quality / low certainty.

Yup, those plastic surgeons are always falling for conspiracy nonsense.

A Consensus No Longer

The American Society of Plastic Surgeons becomes the first major medical association to challenge the consensus of medical groups over “gender-affirming care” for minors.

www.city-journal.org

Plastic Surgeons? Those who aren't evaluating the long term outcome with continued appointments and evaluations and therapy?

 

[icehorse]

Plastic Surgeons? Those who aren't evaluating the long term outcome with continued appointments and evaluations and therapy?

I'm sorry, can you rephrase that? thanks

 

[Shadow Wolf]

These things don't have an actual existence by themselves; they only exist within the context of human thought.

Depression exists.
Math also is something that we don't find in nature. Yet it's the language teaching us how the Cosmos functions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes I am; if I don't know the person, and they look like a biological female, I address them as female. If they tell me they are male, I assume I've made a mistake and address them as male. If they tell me they are female but identify as a male, and accuse me of mis-gendering them, I tell them I was not referring to their Gender but their biology.

That's called being a jerk.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm sorry, can you rephrase that? thanks

Plastic surgeons, a group known for largely feeding to vanity, aren't following up with their patients on a long term basis. They aren't therapists or psychologists who can properly evaluate mental health outcomes.
It's like radiologists who expected to be taken seriously with their lesser opinions of covid. They don't study viruses, they're field isn't in how they are transmitted, they run tests and don't even actually treat people.

 

[Argentbear]

still struggling with understanding falsifiable claims ?

you presented a claim... I falsified it. there you go.

 

[Argentbear]

These things don't have an actual existence by themselves; they only exist within the context of human thought.

yeah they do exist independent of thought which is why medications for these things work.