What are the mistakes Muslims do when informing others about Islam?

[Abu Rashid]

Organic allow for changes or make allowance for changes. Changes may lead to good or bad.

You have completely gone off the rails of what I was trying to convey.

When you hear organic, you instantly think of mutating, adapting etc? this is not what I was referring to at all. By organic I meant that a religion is a complete organism, not just an arbitrary bunch of people assembled together with the same beliefs.

 

[.lava]

That's strange, I thought Muslims thought of religion as opposite to what you are saying - an "organic entity".

Organic allow for changes or make allowance for changes. Changes may lead to good or bad.

Because from what some RF Muslims have said in other threads, Islam and the Qur'an are supposed to be unchangeable and perfect, like their supposed perfect god. If Islam supposed to be perfect, but if what you are saying is true, then it is changeable and organic therefore your religion is imperfect.

Which is it?

interesting. ignorance lead to bad. for example if someone believes everything happens with permission of God (i do believe that btw) and he gets ill his personal point of view would get in the way. he might say this illness is from God and he can refuse all medical help. he can also accept medical help by saying medical help is from God as well. i am trying to say, basics of Islam is timeless. in Islamic knowledge God is "one and only" and this would not change by time because it does not depend on time and people. but technology would keep going further by time and expanding knowledge of men and as long as it does not contain anything against basics of Islam that's certain and unchangeable, we can use them. therefor it is organic

.

 

[Caladan]

It makes perfect sense. A religion is not just an arbitrary collection of people, it is a very "organic" entity which is made up of much more than just it's adherents and founders.

Religion is only organic because it is the people who make the religion. its the people who practice the religion, who keep the traditions, who change the traditions, who change and evolve, who tackle the religious dilemmas and try to work out ways to accommodate both their traditions and the realities of life. if a religion is not the people, than you are nothing but a slave to your religion.

 

[Abu Rashid]

Religion is only organic because it is the people who make the religion. its the people who practice the religion, who keep the traditions, who change the traditions, who change and evolve, who tackle the religious dilemmas and try to work out ways to accommodate both their traditions and the realities of life.

I would've thought being from a Jewish background would've given you a much better perspective on this. What binds Jews together? Is it just religion? Is it just ethnicity? Or is there something else? could it be the "after effects" of religion? Something extra than the people themselves that they acquired from their religious journey that still binds them together?

if a religion is not the people, than you are nothing but a slave to your religion.

You've completely lost me there. How on earth does not viewing religion as just being a group of people make me a slave to religion?

 

[Caladan]

I would've thought being from a Jewish background would've given you a much better perspective on this. What binds Jews together? Is it just religion? Is it just ethnicity? Or is there something else? could it be the "after effects" of religion? Something extra than the people themselves that they acquired from their religious journey that still binds them together?

Jews have originated their religion, not the other way around, Jews were a nation and a people, who shared a faith and a religion which has evoloved from the people themselves.

You've completely lost me there. How on earth does not viewing religion as just being a group of people make me a slave to religion?

It is the people who make up the religion and who practice it, once a religion becomes something extrnal and 'above' their society, it is becoming a tool for enslaving the people, often overriding their own healthy logic in the name of a religious authority or their own irrational fear of a watchful eye of a God who is obsessed with the inane details of their lives. many such people have longed stopped celebrating their faith, and instead have come to mourn their faith.

 

[Peacewise]

Seems to me that something can be perfect and then change into something else that is also perfect.
Despite that the religious texts are static, or complete, the understanding of them changes in time, just as a child reading Alice in Wonderland gets a different understanding than does an adult reading the same book. In this sense the book is perfect for it remains as it is and the perspective of the audience changes.

 

[kai]

One of the things that is very common and that ruins any possible understanding is the I know the truth mentality that many Muslims have.

Many Muslims talk as if the entire world should follow their rules and if they don't then they should, otherwise its shocking. Oh you have a different view that's wrong!

Many Muslims speak from a position of knowing absolute truth as given you by God how could anyone by more imperialistic than that.

Many Muslims who when using the word Imperialist often forget they are in fact remnants of one of the Largest Empires the world has ever known.

 

[Commoner]

One of the things that is very common and that ruins any possible understanding is the I know the truth mentality that many Muslims have.

Many Muslims talk as if the entire world should follow their rules and if they don't then they should, otherwise its shocking. Oh you have a different view that's wrong!

Many Muslims speak from a position of knowing absolute truth as given you by God how could anyone by more imperialistic than that.

Many Muslims who when using the word Imperialist often forget they are in fact remnants of one of the Largest Empires the world has ever known.

Ancient thread...

 

[kai]

Ancient thread...

I am here to whine, ancient or not

 

[Sahar]

If you want to know what i actual think i will be 100% truthful in regards my feelings on Islam and Muslims here:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-debates/38152-anti-islamic-ad-hominem.html

kai, have we just met and I still need to know your views? Do I still need to know that you support occupation of Muslim countries? Attacking and killing the Palestinians? Please!!
This is what actually matter, it doesn't matter to me if you are the most hardcore atheist or gay.

 

[Commoner]

I am here to whine, ancient or not

Oh, ok. Carry on...

 

[kai]

kai, have we just met and I still need to know your views? Do I still need to know that you support occupation of Muslim countries? Attacking and killing the Palestinians? Please!!
This is what actually matter, it doesn't matter to me if you are the most hardcore atheist or gay.

I support no occupation of Muslim Countries !! i supported the war against Saddam, I support the war against the Taliban but not an occupation of Afghanistan.

Palestine! i fully support the formation of a Palestinian state , i believe there's no military solution to this problem. I however detest Hamas and think they only bring misery to Palestinians, I did not support Operation cast Lead but i fully understand why the Israelis resorted to it.

and for your information i am an atheist and a fully functioning heterosexual . I support Muslims being able to worship in my country and have the same rights as anybody else . i have issues with certain things in Islam and have discussed those at length with you and others, i feel now that i have a better understanding of Muslims and Islam than i have aver had.

 

[England my lionheart]

One of the things that is very common and that ruins any possible understanding is the I know the truth mentality that many Muslims have.

Boy have we seen this in debates that came to be called "the vortex" using circular reasoning.

Many Muslims talk as if the entire world should follow their rules and if they don't then they should, otherwise its shocking. Oh you have a different view that's wrong!

I agree,even if its scientifically proven its still wrong

Many Muslims speak from a position of knowing absolute truth as given you by God how could anyone by more imperialistic than that.

Basically we cannot know better than their God

Many Muslims who when using the word Imperialist often forget they are in fact remnants of one of the Largest Empires the world has ever known.

This is a problem for many Muslims,the Ummah like the British Empire is no more,it is too divided with no Human central figure to bring it together like a Caliph.

 

[Badran]

If you don't mind a personal question Kai, i want to ask you something. But first let me clarify that i certainly don't see you as a person who supports terrorism, or anything of the like.

What strikes me as strange though is things like this:

I however detest Hamas and think they only bring misery to Palestinians, I did not support Operation cast Lead but i fully understand why the Israelis resorted to it.

What i don't understand here, and in comments like this, is do you view this as criminal, and despicable too? Do you want the people responsible to it to be stopped and dealt with? Or is you saying that you understand why they resorted to it, mean that you don't view it so negatively?

 

[chinu]

What are the mistakes Muslims do when informing others about Islam?

Not only in muslims in every religion people start to inform others about their religion, but they themselves do have the proper and correct knowledge of their religion.

People are not for the Religions,
Religion is for the people.

_/\_ Chinu.

 

[Sahar]

I support no occupation of Muslim Countries !! i supported the war against Saddam, I support the war against the Taliban but not an occupation of Afghanistan.

Palestine! i fully support the formation of a Palestinian state , i believe there's no military solution to this problem. I however detest Hamas and think they only bring misery to Palestinians, I did not support Operation cast Lead but i fully understand why the Israelis resorted to it.

Yeah, how convenient. I only support the war against Saddam, Taliban, Hamas and Hezbullah. Of course, any killing of Muslims in the process are only a part of the war against these evil people. "Hey, I am a peace lover and justice supporter." But what I and other Muslims perceived of you, all this time, as a Zionist more than the Israelis themselves, your apologetic posts for the Israeli attacks on the Palestinians and Lebanese people, your desperate defense for the occupying forces in Afghanistan and Iraq is an illusion and we misunderstood you. My mistake!!

 

[beenie]

i hate when we Muslims use the West and everyone else to raise ourselves to some higher level. the West is not the evil empire that many Muslim speakers claim it is. sure there are major problems both socially and politically, but our job as Muslims is to improve upon ourselves, not demonize the rest of the world with the "us versus them" attitude we so often portray. if we want to be respected, then we need to show respect. we do a horrible job of presenting our points with any sort of positive light; instead, we present our views in a very negative "holier than thou" way.

before everyone comes down on me, i don't mean ALL Muslims, of course, or even the MAJORITY...just the LOUDEST minority.

One of the things that is very common and that ruins any possible understanding is the I know the truth mentality that many Muslims have.

Many Muslims talk as if the entire world should follow their rules and if they don't then they should, otherwise its shocking. Oh you have a different view that's wrong!

and sadly this happens between/among Muslims as well. if a Muslim has a different opinion than another Muslim, well...clearly ONE of them is wrong. i have real issues with this even within the Muslim community.

Many Muslims speak from a position of knowing absolute truth as given you by God how could anyone by more imperialistic than that.

i've run across some of these types too; luckily they're few and far between in my community. the ones who think like that...i just don't discuss religion/politics with them.

Many Muslims who when using the word Imperialist often forget they are in fact remnants of one of the Largest Empires the world has ever known.

I support no occupation of Muslim Countries !! i supported the war against Saddam, I support the war against the Taliban but not an occupation of Afghanistan.

Palestine! i fully support the formation of a Palestinian state , i believe there's no military solution to this problem. I however detest Hamas and think they only bring misery to Palestinians, I did not support Operation cast Lead but i fully understand why the Israelis resorted to it.

and for your information i am an atheist and a fully functioning heterosexual . I support Muslims being able to worship in my country and have the same rights as anybody else . i have issues with certain things in Islam and have discussed those at length with you and others, i feel now that i have a better understanding of Muslims and Islam than i have aver had.

fair enough. as long as you can see both sides of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict and can see the flaws and mistakes of both sides, then you have the right to your opinion.

 

[Sahar]

i hate when we Muslims use the West and everyone else to raise ourselves to some higher level. the West is not the evil empire that many Muslim speakers claim it is. sure there are major problems both socially and politically, but our job as Muslims is to improve upon ourselves, not demonize the rest of the world with the "us versus them" attitude we so often portray. if we want to be respected, then we need to show respect. we do a horrible job of presenting our points with any sort of positive light; instead, we present our views in a very negative "holier than thou" way.

I am a person who is very critical of the Western philosophies, values and systems. I am very critical of the colonization of the Muslim countries and the consequent effects. I am very critical of the unconditional support of the majority of Western governments to Israel, of the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan by Western armies, of the sanctions on the Iranians and other Muslim nations, of banning the headscarf in schools and governmental buildings, of the war on Islam in media, etc. This is not demonization. This is called reality. The Muslim should understand the surrounding reality. The Muslim should save no effort in expressing his principles. Does this mean I am not critical of the many Muslim backward and unjust practices? Not at all. On the contrary, the main focus is how Muslims should act. And to understand how Muslim should act, we must understand the reality, returning to the original point. Are the Western values and policies towards Muslims the only component of the reality? Of course not. We play the biggest role in this sad reality of ours. But again, it doesn't mean we sit back pretending as if there are no attacks on our religion and its followers and put all the blame on Muslims. And it doesn't mean we use the West to be higher, etc. Muslims are blamed for sure, the biggest blame is on them but we should put everything in its perspective.

 

[Sahar]

And as I said in the other thread, we can review the thousands of threads about Islam and see who attack and who defend. Unfortunately, Muslims are in the defensive position, most of the time.

 

[kai]

If you don't mind a personal question Kai, i want to ask you something. But first let me clarify that i certainly don't see you as a person who supports terrorism, or anything of the like.

What strikes me as strange though is things like this:

What i don't understand here, and in comments like this, is do you view this as criminal, and despicable too? Do you want the people responsible to it to be stopped and dealt with? Or is you saying that you understand why they resorted to it, mean that you don't view it so negatively?

operation cast lead itself was an act of war it was actively sought by Hamas and its associates. Hamas main purpose is to fight Israelis that's what they exist to do and that's what they get war. The losers as always were the Palestinian people.

I would like to see Hamas put on there best uniforms and take their AK47s and become the martyrs they express the wish to be all of them march right up to the border firing from the hip instead of hiding amongst civilians systematically goading Israel into war and then crying foul when they do. then maybe the Palestinians can get someone to negotiate a political solution.